New map of YDNA haplogroup R1a-CTS1211 (aka M558 or Y93)

[mikejz]

I think I'm in a similar situation. My results are similar to yours, Z280-CTS1211-Y35-CTS3402-Y2613. I'm negative for Y2609 though. I'm on Family Tree DNA but have no matches of Y-DNA in the whole database. It's very confusing. My father's family didn't pass down any info so all we know is that my paternal grandfather was born in Minsk, Belarus, Jan 15, 1894. Anyone have thoughts on what I can/should do at this point?

[Daemon2017]

User TK from neighboring Russian forum prepared a map of CTS1211's subclades diversity.

[Daemon2017]

UPD:
very detailed
Attachment 9476
with gradient
Attachment 9477
normal
Attachment 9478

[lndy0430]

Hi,I'm Chinese,from Central China.My result is R1a1a1b1a2b3, Z280-CTS1211.I wonder when my ancestor came to China from Europe.

[Ygorcs]

Hi,I'm Chinese,from Central China.My result is R1a1a1b1a2b3, Z280-CTS1211.I wonder when my ancestor came to China from Europe.

Wow, man, your Y-DNA is extremely rare for Central China. If youhad R1a-Z93 it could be easily assumed that you descended from one of the Tocharian or Iranian tribes that lived in what is now Western China, but R1a-Z280 is way more expected in Central and Eastern Europe and not very frequent anywhere in Asia as far as I know. It's mostly associated with Balto-Slavic peoples, so I can only imagine for now that your paternal ancestor lived in the Russian or Ukrainian steppe or forest-steppe areas and there he became a part (as a warrior, a slave, a merchant? We'll never know) of one of the far-reaching and very mobile tribal confederacies that often spanned roughly from Russia to Central Asia (Kyrghizstan, perhaps parts of Xinjiang).

[felipeschmidt25]

I m R1a Y2613 and my direct background is northeastern italian(Vicenza Province). Does somebody knows how this ydna came from italy? Goths or some recently migration?

[Wonomyro]

Hi,I'm Chinese,from Central China.My result is R1a1a1b1a2b3, Z280-CTS1211.I wonder when my ancestor came to China from Europe.

There is a recent study on Croatian Y-DNA chromosome:

"Genetic heritage of Croatians in the Southeastern European gene pool—Y chromosome analysis of the Croatian continental and Island population (June 2016)"

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...22876/abstract

Results

A high diversity of haplogroups was observed in the overall Croatian sample, and all typical European Y chromosome haplogroups with corresponding clinal patterns were observed. Three distinct genetic signals were identifiable in the Croatian paternal gene pool - I2a1b-M423, R1a1a1b1a*-M558, and E1b1b1a1b1a-V13 haplogroups.

You posses a typical Croatian R1a subclade!


Now take a deep breath...

Marco Polo was born in 1254[9][nb 1] in the Republic of Venice.[10] His exact date and place of birth are archivally unknown.[11][12] Some historians mentioned that he was born on September 15[13][14] but that date is not endorsed by mainstream scholarship.[citation needed] Marco Polo's birthplace is generally considered Venice,[12][15] but also varies between Constantinople[16][12] and the island of Korčula.[17][12][18][19] There is dispute as to whether the Polo family is of Venetian origin, as Venetian historical sources considered them to be of Dalmatian origin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo

Dalmatia is part of Croatia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatia


Theoretically, there is a chance that you are descended from Marco Polo! :)

[Bachus]

Hi,I'm Chinese,from Central China.My result is R1a1a1b1a2b3, Z280-CTS1211.I wonder when my ancestor came to China from Europe.

Your ancestor by male line was probably Turkic or Scythian (Tocharian).

[Wonomyro]

Your ancestor by male line was probably Turkic or Scythian (Tocharian).

Realy? How did you get that?

[Wonomyro]

I m R1a Y2613 and my direct background is northeastern italian(Vicenza Province). Does somebody knows how this ydna came from italy? Goths or some recently migration?

Most probably from Dalmatia via Venice. There was a large Croatian colony in Venice in the past.

[Bachus]

Realy? How did you get that?

I did not see well, I thought that he is R1a-Z93.

[Wonomyro]

I did not see well, I thought that he is R1a-Z93.

You are too jumpy, @Bachus. Just relax.

[felipeschmidt25]

Could be from Dalmatia or even Trieste. But where exctaly Ostroghts settled in Italy? I dont know really if it could be Gothic or recently Croatian cause Y2613 has the MRCA in 4000-3200 years ago, so it is remote and could came with the Goths too. Does somebody have a article with % of Y2613 distribution? Also i will do BIGY for discover more about my direct paternal linage(Santacatterina family).

[Wonomyro]

Could be from Dalmatia or even Trieste. But where exctaly Ostroghts settled in Italy? I dont know really if it could be Gothic or recently Croatian cause Y2613 has the MRCA in 4000-3200 years ago, so it is remote and could came with the Goths too. Does somebody have a article with % of Y2613 distribution? Also i will do BIGY for discover more about my direct paternal linage(Santacatterina family).

Some of the Polish nobility from Masovia has that mutation:

https://www.worldfamilies.net/geo/masovian/results

The one you are looking for is called "Carpathian-Croatian" Subclade. One can also notice many brother clades in the area.

[hrvat22]

I m R1a Y2613 and my direct background is northeastern italian(Vicenza Province). Does somebody knows how this ydna came from italy? Goths or some recently migration?

Very possibly Slovenian or Croatian male ancestor, my dear Brazilian brother.

[Wonomyro]

Schiavoni. Look how important they were in Venice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiavone

Croatian promenade:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riva_degli_Schiavoni

[felipeschmidt25]

Its interessing. Maybe could be it. I dont really know why i m Y2613. There are a lot possibilites. I usually talk about ostrogoths cause they settled in verona-vicenza area, however there are much more to find,the Croatian hypotesis should be true, however without bigY or even a documental confirmation i wont know.

[lndy0430]

Wow, man, your Y-DNA is extremely rare for Central China. If youhad R1a-Z93 it could be easily assumed that you descended from one of the Tocharian or Iranian tribes that lived in what is now Western China, but R1a-Z280 is way more expected in Central and Eastern Europe and not very frequent anywhere in Asia as far as I know. It's mostly associated with Balto-Slavic peoples, so I can only imagine for now that your paternal ancestor lived in the Russian or Ukrainian steppe or forest-steppe areas and there he became a part (as a warrior, a slave, a merchant? We'll never know) of one of the far-reaching and very mobile tribal confederacies that often spanned roughly from Russia to Central Asia (Kyrghizstan, perhaps parts of Xinjiang).

Yes, I agree with you. Because I found 110 people of R1a in China, only two men(include me) is R1a European type (R1a1a1b1), and the rest are Z93 Asian type.My SNP results will come out less than a month later, and then I think it will be more clear.Thx :)

[lndy0430]

Sorry,Wonomyro , I could't reply you from the website,here is my reply:
Is it？ This is really interesting, because I thought my ancestors came to China during the Mongolia Empire, but now I have a new idea:)

[Dibran]

Sorry,Wonomyro , I could't reply you from the website,here is my reply:
Is it？ This is really interesting, because I thought my ancestors came to China during the Mongolia Empire, but now I have a new idea:)

There is still a possibility Scytho-Sarmatians or western most scythians could have carried Z280 as well. Maybe one got caught in eastern tribal movements.

[lndy0430]

Yes,that is possible, and the process of coming to East Asia may be a long time.

[lndy0430]

There is still a possibility Scytho-Sarmatians or western most scythians could have carried Z280 as well. Maybe one got caught in eastern tribal movements.

Yes,that is possible, and the process of coming to East Asia may be a long time.

[lndy0430]

Hi, I have completed my SNP test. Now I have appeared in TREE under CTS3402-YP237-YP951. I am waiting for the update of YFULL. YFULL ID: ELT50012

[RajvoSa]

There is still a possibility Scytho-Sarmatians or western most scythians could have carried Z280 as well. Maybe one got caught in eastern tribal movements.

No one of tested Scythians weren't Z280.

[lndy0430]

Although my position haven't updated, I know that I am YP4530, and I will set up a new branch after the next update. YP4532 is my downstream. YP4530&YP4532 seems to be distributed in Western Ukraine and southeastern Poland. Do anyone know more about them? Thank you