The West Asian admixture also dates from the Bronze Age. The R1b branch of the Indo-Europeans carried a small but significant percentage (along with what was labelled as East European, West European and Gedrosian in Dodecad). This is obvious from looking at the West Eurasian admixtures found among North Asians (Altaians, Mongols) who possess both R1a and R1b, but otherwise only Mongoloid haplogroups. It makes sense since R1b domesticated cattle in West Asia and absorbed a minority of West Asian lineages, especially mtDNA J1b1a, which I found to be the maternal lineage most strongly correlated with the spread of all R1b subclades (even V88) since the Neolithic. After that, R1b people integrated a small number of Y-DNA G2a3b1 and J2b2, who probably migrated from the Balkans/Carpathians to the Pontic Steppe and North Caucasus before the Indo-European migrations started. So yes, some West Asian is Indo-European. I think that 10% of West Asian admixture is a reasonable estimate for the Proto-Indo-European R1b branch by the time they reached Germany (c. 2500 BCE).

Greeks and Italians have more West Asian because of the later Bronze Age expansion from Anatolia to Greece (Minoans), then the Etruscan and Greek colonisation of Italy. The Balkans have more West Asian because of higher Neolithic ancestry, but also because of the Greek, Roman, and latter Byzantine and Turkish influences.



The Caucasian admixture from Dodecad is essentially Neolithic. Bulgarians don't have less than their neighbours.

ANE is more similar to the Gedrosian admixture, although both are quite distinct. The Gedrosian admixture only seem to include very old components of R1b shared with Kalash-like people in South Asia. ANE encompasses all haplogroup R (R1a, R1b and R2), but also some nearby haplogroups (N, O, Q). It's still a work in progress. The true Proto-Indo-European admixture hasn't been identified yet. If we look only at Europe, the Gedrosian correlates with R1b, while ANE correlates with R1b, R1a and N1c.

ANE being the DNA from the Siberian Mal'ta boy, it shouldn't have any West Asian admixture. Its purely Siberian/Eurasian, linked to Y-DNA macro-haplogroup N, O, P Q, R.

West Asian means haplogroups G, J1, J2 and T.

Gedrosian apparently mixes R1b, R2, L and T. I think it only represents the West/South Asian admixture that R1b picked up between the Late Paleolithic and the Early Neolithic, when R1b tribes lived around Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Kurdistan. They domesticated cattle in eastern Anatolia around 8,500 BCE, then crossed over the Caucasus to make use the vast extent of grassland for their herds. That's where they came into contact with R1a hunters who already lived there, but lacked the Gedrosian admixture as they migrated to Eastern Europe straight from Siberia and instead picked up Palaeolithic European genes (including blue eyes).

Makes sense, and is more-or-less what I also think. It is good that you remind to distinguish Gedrosia and Caucasus.
Instead of assuming Caucasus to be neolithic I rather thought that the NW-European-R1b-Gedrosia complex is somewhat linked to the Central-Asia-BMAC sphere, while East-European 'Caucasus' admix is just from the adjacent western steppe and Caucasus.
Explaining 'Caucasus' by neolithic incursions is very convenient, but I'm still hesitant because there is no sample supporting this view yet. Only Ötzi showed very slight Caucasus admixture in K12b, but same with Sardinians, so not very convincing. For now I remain agnostic.
Regarding Bulgarian and Romanian 'Caucasus' levels, I would be almost sure much of it comes from Bulgars. The problem is that then there should be much more east-asian and siberian admixture then, as historic evidence suggests AFAIK.

EDIT: And I might add, the Balkans underwent the most frequent steppic incursions in europe according to history. So again, seeing still so low ANE there is surprising, unless these incursions were different (more 'Caucasus'/southern) from those affecting northern europe (more 'Gedrosian'/'Karelian'/'Amerindian').
 
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Wait, you think that mtDNA is part of the entire genome? I always thought whole genome refers to autosomal DNA only.

The entire geonome consists of an organism's complete set of DNA, including autosomes, mtDNA and Y DNA. Intermixing of people will alter the genetic makeup of their descendants, so it's not surprising that someone with R1b could have minimal ANE if the descendants of MA1's clan intermixed with multiple other groups while migrating to Europe over the course of a long period of time. However, Maciamo seems to be saying that we should still expect some correlation between people who are members of haplogroup R and people who have ANE, even though it's only a partial correlation. My question is why the same wouldn't apply to people who are members of the same mtDNA haplogroup as MA1.
 
That's a fascinating map, but I'm not sure how to interpret it. The amount of ANE doesn't seem to correspond very well to the levels of R1a and R1b across Europe. And although I suppose the high levels of ANE in Turkey come from the Turkish invasions,

The figures for Turkey and Iran are slightly Incorrect. I made my own calculation on the Eurogenes data yesterday. In Iran ANE reaches an average of 20% even in the Southwestern Portions, which is here colored in the 15-17.5%.
Among Turks ANE reaches at max 16.5%. The frequency rises towards 19.5% to Kurds and 19% towards Georgia/Laz.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MO082kxaBF5ePr4__bAK05VQRFw/edit#gid=62882571


So it doesn't have much to do only with Turkic but Indo_Iranian and Caucasian expansion as a whole.
 
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Year 2014 is drawing to a close and I was hoping to finish the ANE and WHG maps by the end of the year. Here is the first one. The data is based on Eurogenes.

This map compares the genes of modern people to the DNA of a Central Siberian mammoth hunter (known as MA-1), who lived 24,000 years ago and belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup R* and mtDNA haplogroup U*. The Paleolithic sample was tested by Raghavan et al. (2014). This admixture was absent from Mesolithic European samples, except in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, and was completely absent from all Neolithic European samples tested to date. It is thought to have been spread across Europe and the Middle East by the Proto-Indo-Europeans (Y-haplogroups R1a and R1b) from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, and to a lower extent also by Uralic people (Finns, Estonians, Magyars) and Turkic people (Avars, Bulgars, Khazars, Kurds, Turks). The ANE admixture is particularly common today among North Caucasian and Volga-Ural ethnicities, who live in regions strongly associated with the development of Proto-Indo-European cultures in the Early Bronze Age. Within Europe, the highest percentages of ANE admixture are observed among the Lezgins (26.5%), Chechens (26%), North Ossetians (23.5%) Kumyks (23.5%), and Adyghei (22.5%). Frequencies of over 20% of R1b have been found among the Lezgins, Kumyks and North Ossetians.

The Sardinians have the lowest percentage of ANE (4%), which is in agreement with the fact that the island was bypassed by the Indo-European migrations and that Sardinians still spoke a non-Indo-European language until the Roman conquest some 2,000 years ago. Sardinians also have the lowest incidence of fair hair in Europe (along with Sicilians). The 18% of R1b in Sardinia was probably brought mostly by the Romans and subsequent immigrations from mainland Italy, and to a lower extent by the Vandals and the Goths. This explains the non-null percentage of ANE, which is only 1/5 of the R1b percentage.





N.B. : It would be interesting to get ANE percentages for Bosnia-Herzegovina and Montenegro. Considering the low percentage of R1a and R1b, I would expect it to be lower than in surrounding countries. Unfortunately I couldn't find any data.


EDIT : I have just noticed some inconsistencies in the ANE frequencies for the North Caucasus. I used this data from Eurogenes for the Caucasus (and other regions not covered by Lazaridis et al.). Unfortunately it looks like it could be ANE + WHG and not just ANE. LeBrok pasted here the data of someone who calculated the admixtures by applying the WHG-EEF-ANE calc to the Eurogenes K13, and it turns out that the Lezgins are 13% ANE and 13% WHG, not 26% ANE. Since both data sets are from Eurogenes, I don't know which is correct. I would rather think the 13% + 13% as otherwise North Caucasians end up with close to 0% WHG, which is odd for a European region that was often invaded by northerners.


You should have used the most recent Calculator of Eurogenes West_Eurasia K8
http://eurogenes.blogspot.de/2014/12/the-fateful-triangle.html


ANE in North Caucasians indeed reaches levels of 27% and their WHG is ~9%.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MO082kxaBF5ePr4__bAK05VQRFw/edit#gid=62882571


correction: Kurds are not Turkic people.
 
Year 2014 is drawing to a close and I was hoping to finish the ANE and WHG maps by the end of the year. Here is the first one. The data is based on Eurogenes.


EDIT : I have just noticed some inconsistencies in the ANE frequencies for the North Caucasus. I used this data from Eurogenes for the Caucasus (and other regions not covered by Lazaridis et al.). Unfortunately it looks like it could be ANE + WHG and not just ANE. LeBrok pasted here the data of someone who calculated the admixtures by applying the WHG-EEF-ANE calc to the Eurogenes K13, and it turns out that the Lezgins are 13% ANE and 13% WHG, not 26% ANE. Since both data sets are from Eurogenes, I don't know which is correct. I would rather think the 13% + 13% as otherwise North Caucasians end up with close to 0% WHG, which is odd for a European region that was often invaded by northerners.
Nice, thank you for all your efforts. Is it possible to use Eurogenes West Eurasion K8 and scale up 25>% to pick up Caucasus region groups like Tabasarrans; expand map a little to include a little more of Caspian[East and North]?
 
Maybe not all of ANE in Scotland is IEan, but mesolithic samples from east (Scandinavia) had less ANE than contemp. Scots, and La Brana and Loschbourg from the south had none. So a decent part in Scots must be of different origin. Also they consistently show West-Asian admixture in most calculators, which was completely absent in all hunter-gatherers so far.

What I don't understand is how is it possible that south-eastern europe has so low ANE while having highest 'West-Asian' (or alike) in all calculators. West-Asian should contain 1/3 ANE.
For example Bulgaria had one of the highest 'Caucasus' admixture (~30%) in Europe, yet in this map the Turks are the ones who have high ANE but neighbouring Bulgarians have even less then central and north Europe. I can't make sense of it. I know that ANE does not imply West-Asian, but West-Asian should always imply some ANE.

I agree that ANE=Indo-European is too simplistic, especially when I look at southern europe. but for the rest it is still consistent.

I'll keep making bets about these things because it makes fun. If I'm wrong, I will survive it :).


Caucasus is the portion of "West Asian" which consists less ANE. The break up of this component shows it is some 58% "West Asian" some 34% "Southern" and some 8% "North European".
Gedrosia is actually the "purer" form of West Asian and it's break up shows it is, 92% "West Asian" and 8% "ANI".
And if you keep a close look at Data from the Caucasus you will realize that Populations with more Gedrosia have higher ANE than populations with less. See Lezgins vs Georgians as example.

Bulgarians have roughly 18% West Asian. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ue&sortcolid=12&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=250

If 1/3 of this is ANE. This would correspondence to ~5.4% ANE. The rest of their ANE they got from their North European percentage what pretty much fits the figures.
 
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The figures for Turkey and Iran are slightly Incorrect. I made my own calculation on the Eurogenes data yesterday. In Iran ANE reaches an average of 20% even in the Southwestern Portions, which is here colored in the 15-17.5%.
Among Turks ANE reaches at max 16%. The frequency rises towards 19.5% to Kurds and 19% towards Georgia/Laz.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MO082kxaBF5ePr4__bAK05VQRFw/edit#gid=62882571


So it doesn't have much to do with Turkic but Indo_Iranian and Caucasian expansion as a whole.

You should have used the most recent Calculator of Eurogenes West_Eurasia K8
http://eurogenes.blogspot.de/2014/12...-triangle.html


ANE in North Caucasians indeed reaches levels of 27% and their WHG is ~9%.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...t#gid=62882571

Thanks. I hadn't noticed the West_Eurasia K8 calculator. I will correct the map accordingly. However the WHG percentages do not correspond at all to the ones I used for the map.

correction: Kurds are not Turkic people.

Sorry about that. I wrote too quickly and somehow mixed up Turkic and Indo-Iranian, probably because of this.
 
Thanks. I hadn't noticed the West_Eurasia K8 calculator. I will correct the map accordingly. However the WHG percentages do not correspond at all to the ones I used for the map.

Yes there is indeed more WHG in North Caucasus, Turkey/Anatolia and parts of the Levant. WHG in North Africa is relatively strong.

You can use this map If it helps.

Legend

ENF: Early Neolithic Farmer /Near Eastern
ANE: Ancient North Eurasian
WHG: Western Hunters&Gatherers
SEA: South Eurasian (seems to be some kind of South_Central Asian component related to ANE)
EEA: East Eurasian
OCE: Oceanian
SSA: Sub Saharan African (but is in my opinion more of an "East African" type).

Components <1% were not taken into consideration.

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/blankmapeuropegjpclfv1a0.png

Update: Jews-Samaritans and Palestinians added. Samaritans seem to be best proxy for ENF with 87.5%.

Sorry about that. I wrote too quickly and somehow mixed up Turkic and Indo-Iranian, probably because of this.

No problem.
 
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Nice, thank you for all your efforts. Is it possible to use Eurogenes West Eurasion K8 and scale up 25>% to pick up Caucasus region groups like Tabasarrans; expand map a little to include a little more of Caspian[East and North]?

I have added a new shade for >25%, but I cannot easily expand the map eastward.
 
Yes there is indeed more WHG in North Caucasus, Turkey/Anatolia and parts of the Levant. WHG in North Africa is relatively strong.

You can use this map If it helps.

Legend

ENF: Early Neolithic Farmer /Near Eastern
ANE: Ancient North Eurasian
WHG: Western Hunters&Gatherers
SEA: South Eurasian (seems to be some kind of South_Central Asian component related to ANE)
EEA: East Eurasian
OCE: Oceanian
SSA: Sub Saharan African (but is in my opinion more of an "East African" type).

Components <1% were not taken into consideration.

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/blankmapeuropeatxsmp35d2.png





No problem.

Thanks again. Since the WHG percentage varies a lot between calculators, I have checked where Maghrebians and North Caucasians stood compared to the lowest known WHG percentages in Europe (namely Sicily and Cyprus). Since they are both lower than Sicily, I have classified both regions in the <5% shade.
 
I have added a new shade for >25%, but I cannot easily expand the map eastward.


Thank's professor for all your hard work and dedication; and Tomatoes for K8, it's perfect. Best wish and happy 2015 for all your friends and loved ones.
 
My wifes mom is Turkish/greek/bulgar I think and dad is Albanian. Here are the results
you can see there is some kind of mix

Population

ANE
14.25%
ASE
2.40%
WHG-UHG
31.20%
East_Eurasian
6.23%
West_African
0.24%
East_African
-
ENF
45.69%
 
ANE high among Kets Caucasus people and Tajiks(close to Burusho people)
Ket Burushaski and Caucasian laguages are "Sino-Caucasian"
http://f-picture.net/fp/b267ea42bcf143419ec226f1cd1c1fdb

The picture is from
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,1953.msg271516.html#msg271516

The map is still not accurate for Western Asia. On the map it looks like Turkey has more ANE than Kurdistan and is on level with Iran while in reality from any single calculator or sample I have seen Kurdistan has around 3% more ANE than Turkey.

Also there seems to be no samples for Kalash on this map otherwise they would probably score one of the highers(probably the highest) percentage,
 
ANE high among Kets Caucasus people and Tajiks(close to Burusho people)
Ket Burushaski and Caucasian laguages are "Sino-Caucasian"
http://f-picture.net/fp/b267ea42bcf143419ec226f1cd1c1fdb

The picture is from
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,1953.msg271516.html#msg271516

Who makes this map for Gods sake. How can Armenia, Turkey and Azerbaijan have more ANE than Kurdistan? The map just like it's predecessor has no value if it does not hold on the data.
It looks like Turkey has more ANE than Kurdistan. But in reality in all calculators Kurds score around 3% more ANE than Turks. So how comes this false calculations?

Also there seems to be no samples of Kalash. If there was Kalash would score one of the highest (probably the highest) percentage of ANE.
Here is a better map of ANE admixture someone made. It is a 100% calculated map based on Eurogenes K8. The 13.7% under the Kurdish 19.3% is Assyrian. The Iranian samples are from Behat et al. . And as confirmed by Behar they are from South/Southwestern Iran.
e66a9jgeknb6c5ox.png
 
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Obviously, ANE doesn't mean the whole IE’ans,. The Maciamo's ANE Map, showed 10-15% ANE in Iberia, While this other Maciamo's map show 50-90?% celtic blood in Spain, the second celtic blood nation after Ireland and probably the first in people number. Aren't Celts IE’s?

Celtic_Europe_zps83f4b179.gif
 
Obviously, ANE doesn't mean the whole IE’ans,. The Maciamo's ANE Map, showed 10-15% ANE in Iberia, While this other Maciamo's map show 50-90?% celtic blood in Spain, the second celtic blood nation after Ireland and probably the first in people number. Aren't Celts IE’s?

Celtic_Europe_zps83f4b179.gif



ANE is an component of Proto Indo Europeans. Large majority of it reached Europe during Bronze Age with Indo Europeans and as such it is the most accurate signal of Indo European ancestry.

However Indo European genome was not all ANE. The major component among them was probably still ENF (Early Neolithic famers) it's just that ENF component beside WHG already existed in Europe and therefore we can not trace Indo European ancestry based on these. So ANE remains as only signal tracing Indo European ancestry.

However We are talking here about Proto Indo Europeans, Celts as Indo Europeans who have evolved most likely outside the original Proto Indo European homeland were genetically already different from Proto Indo Europeans. So Iberia can be as high as 40% (in my opinion most Iberians are basically, firstly celtified/romanized Proto Basque like people) "Italo_Celtic" and still be only 20-30% Proto Indo European.

By the way this is a map of Italo_celtic yDNA. ydna=|= aDNA.
 
Who makes this map for Gods sake. How can Armenia, Turkey and Azerbaijan have more ANE than Kurdistan? The map just like it's predecessor has no value if it does not hold on the data.
It looks like Turkey has more ANE than Kurdistan. But in reality in all calculators Kurds score around 3% more ANE than Turks. So how comes this false calculations?

Also there seems to be no samples of Kalash. If there was Kalash would score one of the highest (probably the highest) percentage of ANE.
Here is a better map of ANE admixture someone made. It is a 100% calculated map based on Eurogenes K8. The 13.7% under the Kurdish 19.3% is Assyrian. The Iranian samples are from Behat et al. . And as confirmed by Behar they are from South/Southwestern Iran.
e66a9jgeknb6c5ox.png

It must be eurogenes, "fishing" for a slavic path into Europe
 

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