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Thread: How would you classify these three men?

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    How would you classify these three men?







    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    My guess is that all three men are Italian. I wouldn't want to get more specific than that.

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    First pic Central (which includes some central and more often North Italians of course) other two southern

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post


    index.jpg Dont you think they look alike? :) he is an ex Maltese president Ugo Mifsud Bonnici. His brother more and more who was a magistrate but cannot find any pics (sorry could not find a bigger pic :/)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I agree that the first man could very easily be northern Italian...to some extent the second one as well, but actually none of them are Italian.

    I actually didn't mean to make it a guessing game...I wanted to know how they would be "classified" in terms of "typology", but this makes it even more interesting.

    Since they're not Italian, what else could they be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I agree that the first man could very easily be northern Italian...to some extent the second one as well, but actually none of them are Italian.

    I actually didn't mean to make it a guessing game...I wanted to know how they would be "classified" in terms of "typology", but this makes it even more interesting.

    Since they're not Italian, what else could they be?
    Im just throwing blank shots here.....Since i classified 1st Pic as central it could be anything between Swiss, French, Austrian. 2nd Pic southern as Spanish, South French? 3rd southern but maybe more (can easily pass for Maltese since I cannot say Sicilian), Greek? of course some of this can verge on near middle eastern. How many chances you will be giving us before you tell us Angela? :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Im just throwing blank shots here.....Since i classified 1st Pic as central it could be anything between Swiss, French, Austrian. 2nd Pic southern as Spanish, South French? 3rd southern but maybe more (can easily pass for Maltese since I cannot say Sicilian), Greek? of course some of this can verge on near middle eastern. How many chances you will be giving us before you tell us Angela? :)
    Oh, I have no problem telling you now as it wasn't, as I said, meant to be a guessing game, and plus, you are very close.

    All three men are famous chefs from Lyon in France. (Of course, he says!) The first is Daniel Boulud, proprietor and head chef of Daniel and Cafe Boulud in New York City (and numerous other restaurants). The second is Paul Bocuse, his teacher, and a legend in the culinary world. All of their ancestry is, so far as I know, from Lyon. The third has ancestry from Lyon and Normandy. I do agree that he's darker in pigmentation than the other two, but I still think you can see similarities in terms of facial structure, especially to Paul Bocuse.

    Would they largely be "Alpine" or "Alpine/Med"? The noses are straight although long and large (this is where we get the local trope that the French have bequeathed us the large noses that sometimes show up...I'm not casting aspersions, mind you...Daniel Boulud looks like some members of my mother's family.)

    Anyway, the question occurred to me when I was watching a segment of Anthony Bourdain's food show that centered on Boulud and the Lyonnaise tradition in general. It's on Netflix. (I'm addicted to it even if I don't much like Anthony Bourdain.) Only this snippet is available on youtube:



    (He seems like an absolutely lovely, shy, charming, generous man.)

    I find it interesting that the French academic sample used for many years came from Lyon. Given their appearance and how similar it is to that of some people in my own backyard, I'm rather surprised that the two groups aren't closer in terms of "calculator"percentages. I suppose it's just another reminder that the alleles for "appearance" don't necessarily correlate all that tightly with the overall genomic signature, although in broad strokes they might... It only makes sense, I guess, given the small number of them and the fact that they aren't even part of the "junk" dna which is used for ancestry purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Oh, I have no problem telling you now as it wasn't, as I said, meant to be a guessing game, and plus, you are very close.

    All three men are famous chefs from Lyon in France. (Of course, he says!) The first is Daniel Boulud, proprietor and head chef of Daniel and Cafe Boulud in New York City (and numerous other restaurants). The second is Paul Bocuse, his teacher, and a legend in the culinary world. All of their ancestry is, so far as I know, from Lyon. The third has ancestry from Lyon and Normandy. I do agree that he's darker in pigmentation than the other two, but I still think you can see similarities in terms of facial structure, especially to Paul Bocuse.
    OH jolly. I was close :) except for the last pic. We get Anthony Bourdain's food show locally through cable. It (used to) makes a nice change occasionally, thou I have downgraded my TV package as the last few years I only seem to use TV for news, and spend more time on the internet :)

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    Italian? They are all French without any known Italian ancestry. The first two, Daniel Boulud and Paul Bocuse, could pass in Italy though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Italian? They are all French without any known Italian ancestry. The first two, Daniel Boulud and Paul Bocuse, could pass in Italy though.

    Indeed, a lot of famous French chefs could pass in Italy...



    Bernard Loiseau:


    Michele Bras:




    Michel Guerard:

    I could go on an on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    OH jolly. I was close :) except for the last pic. We get Anthony Bourdain's food show locally through cable. It (used to) makes a nice change occasionally, thou I have downgraded my TV package as the last few years I only seem to use TV for news, and spend more time on the internet :)
    Anthony Bourdain grandfather and previous family roots are from Provenzal in France ................he is married to a Sardinian women

    The french Riviera has far more years as being Italian than french.............IIRC , the area was given to france by Italy while Garibaldi was alive. Garibaldi was born in Nice , now modern france.
    A slap in the face for Italy , giving away the lands that its "creator" was born n
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Anthony Bourdain grandfather and previous family roots are from Provenzal in France ................he is married to a Sardinian women

    The french Riviera has far more years as being Italian than french.............IIRC , the area was given to france by Italy while Garibaldi was alive. Garibaldi was born in Nice , now modern france.
    A slap in the face for Italy , giving away the lands that its "creator" was born n
    same as corsica...they still speak a kind of Tuscan dialect if not mistaken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Anthony Bourdain grandfather and previous family roots are from Provenzal in France ................he is married to a Sardinian women

    The french Riviera has far more years as being Italian than french.............IIRC , the area was given to france by Italy while Garibaldi was alive. Garibaldi was born in Nice , now modern france.
    A slap in the face for Italy , giving away the lands that its "creator" was born n
    Lyon has nothing to do with either the French Riviera or the Italian Riviera so any resemblance between French people from there and Italian people has nothing to do with Italians in Nizza or surrounding areas.
    Last edited by Angela; 14-01-15 at 02:58. Reason: Spelling

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    Very easily passable as Italians from north to south. It was my first guess.
    Sicilians and mainlander Southern Italian phenotype galleries.

    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/1111/Re-Groups-of-Sicilians
    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/375/Southern-italians-how-we-really-look

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    Modern ethnic Italians from Nizza are a minority and most of them are mixed with French. There is overlap between Italy and France and it not depend only for Nizza or Corsica. Jean Alesi is an ethnic Italian (from Sicily) born in France that could be very easily a native French.

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    I pass over the border at Ventimiglia every year (sometimes more than once) and I don't see any large change in phenotype. Also, as I said above, Daniel Bouloud, Bras and Guerard could move into my mother's villages tomorrow, and people would think they were long lost cousins. Loiseau types are a bit further up valley. Bocuse has an archaic look to me which I associate more with the Apennines.

    Here's one of our local men, fairer, but similar faces can be found over the border in Lyon as well as other areas:


    Here is a politician from my area:


    The female version, also a politician, with the above man.


    As for Jean Alessi, I don't think he's the same type, although as always these things are subjective. (He's also a bit too classically good looking to fit into my little group. )

    Maybe this Sicilian fits better although his face is narrower. What do you think?



    Just to make it clear...Lyon is not on the Riviera...as Hauteville said, any resemblances have nothing to do with the ethnic Italians in Nizza. Also, this has nothing to do with Anthony Bourdain. I never mentioned his phenotype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Oh, I have no problem telling you now as it wasn't, as I said, meant to be a guessing game, and plus, you are very close.

    All three men are famous chefs from Lyon in France. (Of course, he says!) The first is Daniel Boulud, proprietor and head chef of Daniel and Cafe Boulud in New York City (and numerous other restaurants). The second is Paul Bocuse, his teacher, and a legend in the culinary world. All of their ancestry is, so far as I know, from Lyon. The third has ancestry from Lyon and Normandy. I do agree that he's darker in pigmentation than the other two, but I still think you can see similarities in terms of facial structure, especially to Paul Bocuse.

    Would they largely be "Alpine" or "Alpine/Med"? The noses are straight although long and large (this is where we get the local trope that the French have bequeathed us the large noses that sometimes show up...I'm not casting aspersions, mind you...Daniel Boulud looks like some members of my mother's family.)

    Anyway, the question occurred to me when I was watching a segment of Anthony Bourdain's food show that centered on Boulud and the Lyonnaise tradition in general. It's on Netflix. (I'm addicted to it even if I don't much like Anthony Bourdain.) Only this snippet is available on youtube:



    (He seems like an absolutely lovely, shy, charming, generous man.)

    I find it interesting that the French academic sample used for many years came from Lyon. Given their appearance and how similar it is to that of some people in my own backyard, I'm rather surprised that the two groups aren't closer in terms of "calculator"percentages. I suppose it's just another reminder that the alleles for "appearance" don't necessarily correlate all that tightly with the overall genomic signature, although in broad strokes they might... It only makes sense, I guess, given the small number of them and the fact that they aren't even part of the "junk" dna which is used for ancestry purposes.
    You know Angela the difficulty to assign an ethnicity to isolated persons (some men and some ethnies) - by the way it's not possible to take conclusions about links between phenotype and autosomes global means BASED UPON ONLY THREE MEN (for aurosomes it could be close to actual, but concerning physical aspect...
    at first, believing they were of the same nationality I tought too they were Italians before any other as hazardous choice -
    the first : something 'alpino-dinaroid' + '?' + mixed pigmentation - common in Alpine regions, but not typical 'alpine' type (I posted a picture in an other thread)
    the second and the third are far from being 'alpine'; the third is typically dolichocrane; it evocates me some Frenchies (not typical at all) and even some Libaneses or North-Africans (not more typical by the way!) as a whole, rather 'atlanto mediterranean' for the skull and face (hazardous upon one picture); the second HAS NOT A STRAIGHT NOSE, his nose is a big mix of 2 or evenmore than 2 types : I risk: something 'cromagnoid' + something 'classical mediterranean' in his nose - his skin seems very harsh and thick, what is common in the regions were remain some Mesolithic influences - very mixed as a whole this Bocuse!
    for the game only - ridicule doesn' t kill

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    You know Angela the difficulty to assign an ethnicity to isolated persons (some men and some ethnies) - by the way it's not possible to take conclusions about links between phenotype and autosomes global means BASED UPON ONLY THREE MEN (for aurosomes it could be close to actual, but concerning physical aspect...
    at first, believing they were of the same nationality I tought too they were Italians before any other as hazardous choice -
    the first : something 'alpino-dinaroid' + '?' + mixed pigmentation - common in Alpine regions, but not typical 'alpine' type (I posted a picture in an other thread)
    the second and the third are far from being 'alpine'; the third is typically dolichocrane; it evocates me some Frenchies (not typical at all) and even some Libaneses or North-Africans (not more typical by the way!) as a whole, rather 'atlanto mediterranean' for the skull and face (hazardous upon one picture); the second HAS NOT A STRAIGHT NOSE, his nose is a big mix of 2 or evenmore than 2 types : I risk: something 'cromagnoid' + something 'classical mediterranean' in his nose - his skin seems very harsh and thick, what is common in the regions were remain some Mesolithic influences - very mixed as a whole this Bocuse!
    for the game only - ridicule doesn' t kill
    The purpose of the thread was to get a classification of men whose pictures I had recently seen. It veered into another area because a number of posters, not just you, assumed that they were Italian. I don't find that terribly surprising as Liguria (and northwest Italy in general) and southeastern France border each other. I never said all the people are interchangeable phenotypically, but as neighbors it would be absurd, in my opinion, not to see some overlap. Indeed, all the French chefs whose pictures I provided would pass unnoticed in my area.

    As I said in post number 16, Bocuse has something archaic in him. I'm perfectly content to call it Mesolithic. I do see people like him not infrequently, but I see more of that type in the Apennines in terms of my own region than in the coastal Mediterranean zone or even in the foothills. Daniel Boulud could be one of my mother's relatives, and from my time in Lyons and surrounding areas there is nothing atypical about him. The third chef is a different matter. He is not typical for either region.

    Oh, as to poor Paul Bocuse's nose, I had never seen a picture of him in profile. I just googled profile picture, and did find one of him when he was younger, and indeed it isn't straight.


    I thought for a second it might be similar to that of Charles DeGaulle, but it's different...


    Perhaps it's more like that of Francois Hollande...


    Not quite, I think...

    Anyway, he would fit too, minus the hook in his nose...that's not a feature in our area...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    same as corsica...they still speak a kind of Tuscan dialect if not mistaken
    Yes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_language

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I pass over the border at Ventimiglia every year (sometimes more than once) and I don't see any large change in phenotype. Also, as I said above, Daniel Bouloud, Bras and Guerard could move into my mother's villages tomorrow, and people would think they were long lost cousins. Loiseau types are a bit further up valley. Bocuse has an archaic look to me which I associate more with the Apennines.

    Here's one of our local men, fairer, but similar faces can be found over the border in Lyon as well as other areas:


    Here is a politician from my area:


    The female version, also a politician, with the above man.


    As for Jean Alessi, I don't think he's the same type, although as always these things are subjective. (He's also a bit too classically good looking to fit into my little group. )

    Maybe this Sicilian fits better although his face is narrower. What do you think?



    Just to make it clear...Lyon is not on the Riviera...as Hauteville said, any resemblances have nothing to do with the ethnic Italians in Nizza. Also, this has nothing to do with Anthony Bourdain. I never mentioned his phenotype.
    Yes for me all these three can fit for French. By the way Christophe Paucod in my opinion is an Atlanto Mediterranid-Coarse Mediterranid mix.
    Eye shape (but only that) of Paul Bocuse remindes me of Christian Clavier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    Yes for me all these three can fit for French. By the way Christophe Paucod in my opinion is an Atlanto Mediterranid-Coarse Mediterranid mix.
    Eye shape (but only that) of Paul Bocuse remindes me of Christian Clavier.
    I never argue with people about "typology"; I know my strengths and my weaknesses. However, my batting average for knowing where people come from, or "fit" is pretty good, even if it's not modest to say so . He's not the way I picture Atlanto-Meds, so maybe the "Coarse Med" admixture works.

    However his look is defined, however, his version of it is not common amongst us.

    This is him just after he got his Michelin Star. Happy man...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I never argue with people about "typology"; I know my strengths and my weaknesses. However, my batting average for knowing where people come from, or "fit" is pretty good, even if it's not modest to say so . He's not the way I picture Atlanto-Meds, so maybe the "Coarse Med" admixture works.

    However his look is defined, however, his version of it is not common amongst us.

    This is him just after he got his Michelin Star. Happy man...
    He looks like my Nannu, and he was a chef too

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    I would have guess him as coastal southern European before than French.

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