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Many M78+ aDNA samples have been found. I was just listing the V13- samples which were found in Neolithic Europe.also we can add this guy to ancient e-m78 list:
Epicardial Spain Avellaner cave, Catalonia [Ave 07] M 5000 BC E1b1b1a1b1a M35.1, V13, Ei in STR table U5 16051G; 16189C; 16270T source :Lacan 2011b
Angela, it's just that some people in the genetic enthusiast crowd don't like the fact that the male ancestor of the hg probably looked more like Afrika Bambaataa and less than Ragnar Lothbrok, lol.
^^The "E" clades have moved across North Africa from east to west. What you're proposing is that E-V13 or its immediate predecessor made that trip all the way across North Africa to the straits, crossed them, and then traveled all the way east again to show up in Croatia, Hungary, Budapest and Ukraine in European Neolithic contexts, specifically the European Neolithic cultures which arrived from Anatolia?
How could that possibly be the most probable scenario.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but there isn't a shred of evidence that would support it, while meanwhile, as I said, E-V13s immediate predecessor is found in EEF contexts among people whose ancestors came from Anatolia.
Should any such evidence ever surface I'll be happy to accept it. I always follow the evidence. What possible difference could it make to me personally how it got into Europe? Actually, what possible difference could it make to anyone other than as a matter of intellectual curiosity. No need for all this emotion attached to it.
Many M78+ aDNA samples have been found. I was just listing the V13- samples which were found in Neolithic Europe.
V13 aDNA:
1) E-V13 from Avellaner cave, Spain. Belonged to the Cardium Pottery Culture, dated to have lived ~7,000ybp
2) E-CTS1273 from Glinoe, Moldova. Labelled as being a Scythian, though auDNA suggests that he was a Dacian. Recently confirmed to have lived between 400-200 BCE
3) E-Z1919 (likely V13+) from Svilengrad, Bulgaria. Was a Thracian who lived during the Iron Age, 2,800-2,500ybp
4) E-V13 from Crypta Balbi (Rome), Italy. Was a Roman who lived during late Antiquity, 1,600-1,400ybp
5) E-V13 from Karos, Hungary. Sample was from the Conqueror period, 1,105-1,050ybp
6) E-V13 from Szekkutas, Hungary. Sample was from the Middle-Late Avar period, 1,350-1,290ybp
7) E-V13 from Collegno, Italy. Sample was a Langobard (Lombard), dated to have lived between 1,500-1,400ybp
8) E-V13 from Girona, Spain. If I recall correctly this sample was labelled as being a Goth, though in terms of auDNA he was very Southern shifted and resembled Balkanites
9) E-V13 from Huescar, Spain. Dated between 1,000-900ybp
10) E-V13 from Cancelleria (Rome), Italy. Dated between 583-537ybp
11) E-L540 (Predicted) from Hradek nad Nisou, Czechia. Dated ~700ybp
12) E-V13 from Bogovej, Denmark. Sample was labelled as being a Viking, however autosomally was Southern shifted. 1,100-1,000ybp
The best scenario is West Asia. E V13 is an indo European clade. Together with R and J. Rome also adds to this scenario.
Angela, it's just that some people in the genetic enthusiast crowd don't like the fact that the male ancestor of the hg probably looked more like Afrika Bambaataa and less than Ragnar Lothbrok, lol.
He looked like neither of those lol.
This is E-V13 look lmao
Angela, it's just that some people in the genetic enthusiast crowd don't like the fact that the male ancestor of the hg probably looked more like Afrika Bambaataa and less than Ragnar Lothbrok, lol.
Had e v13 came from Africa, countries like Albania, Greece, Bulgaria etc where E is at least a quarter of males, should have an abundance of mtDna L African. Instead that MtDna is completely missing, suggesting they were marring Euro women, which suggest they were somewhere in west Asia. Also non Indo-European countries like Finland, Estonia completely miss E v13, instead Sweden an Indo-European country has a good chunk of itWhy is that the best scenario when E-M78 is almost non existent in West Asia, both ancient samples and modern distribution.
Had e v13 came from Africa, countries like Albania, Greece, Bulgaria etc where E is at least a quarter of males, should have an abundance of mtDna L African. Instead that MtDna is completely missing, suggesting they were marring Euro women, which suggest they were somewhere in west Asia. Also non Indo-European countries like Finland, Estonia completely miss E v13, instead Sweden an Indo-European country has a good chunk of it
^^Oh, so it's better to be a "coarse" type than a gracile type???
Who says?
What utter nonsense.
As for them coming directly from North Africa to Europe, that would be perfectly fine with me. However, you have absolutely no proof for it. When you have an ancient sample which even suggests that, please do let us know.
Until then, it's all just hot air.
E1b1b and E1b1a diverged about the same I and J diverged. In fact our haplogroup are a prime example of people working on improving themselves and dominating others. Iberomaurusians samples are clear Ancestral North African like types that went around North Africa and Near East alot, taking so many various females, and mtdna lineages so that Iberomaurusians were pred. autosomally Eurasian. This happened for thousands of years, and all those females gladly accepted the pastoral E1b1b men more so than various L, T etc... The only J people left with their original language are Chechens, Dagestanis etc. The only G people who kept theirs are Kartvelians, Circassians. So E1b1b is as successful as R1. And of course not for forget proto-Turkic Q.
And I don't mind my ancestor looking like Lebron James, Deontay Wilder, or Mike Tyson even if it were the case (and it wasn't). Pigmentation itself is almost nothing except some personal cosmetic sense. Larger bones, mandibles/jaws, muscles etc. is.
Of course you forget to mention that the I Mesolithic people who might have been the ancestors of Ragnar were dark skinned people. If some English Americans or Spanish Conquistadors had encountered them, they would have considered them as "Blacks". Not to mention the fact that these R1 English and Spanish did encounter in Native Americans their own ancestors! They diverged comparatively much later, 28 000 years ago. So if E1b1b and E1b1a are same why are I and J not the same and why are R and Q not the same either? The R1 men did similar thing as E1b1b men, totally altering themselves by taking a range of hg I and other autosomes. That's what successful groups do, they move around alot encounter a range of adversaries, pick up experience and genes etc., they simply socially evolve at higher pace.
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