Where did E-V13 originate ?

The latest Roman study may be an indication what were the haplogroups of the Ancient Greeks and later Greek world, too. It is obvious E-V13 or even other subclades of E1b1b1 were only a minor haplogroups among them, J2a and J1 reign supreme, along with G2a and T1.
 
The latest Roman study may be an indication what were the haplogroups of the Ancient Greeks and later Greek world, too. It is obvious E-V13 or even other subclades of E1b1b1 were only a minor haplogroups among them, J2a and J1 reign supreme, along with G2a and T1.

Yep, I would have to agree.
 
The latest Roman study may be an indication what were the haplogroups of the Ancient Greeks and later Greek world, too. It is obvious E-V13 or even other subclades of E1b1b1 were only a minor haplogroups among them, J2a and J1 reign supreme, along with G2a and T1.

Ancient samples of E-V13 is also not found anywhere in the Levant. And it’s also almost non-existent among Neolithic farmers. All E in the Levant is non E-M78. The only explanation that makes sense is that E-M78 migrated to Europe directly from North Africa in the Mesolithic or even prior to that.

Where do you think it came from?
 
Really, after spending all your time here private messaging instead of posting, this is what you came up with?

Unbelievable.
 
Really, after spending all your time here private messaging instead of posting, this is what you came up with?

Unbelievable.

Who you talking to ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I belong to Y-DNA E-V13 Berisha-Sopi cluster.
 
Ancient samples of E-V13 is also not found anywhere in the Levant. And it’s also almost non-existent among Neolithic farmers. All E in the Levant is non E-M78. The only explanation that makes sense is that E-M78 migrated to Europe directly from North Africa in the Mesolithic or even prior to that.

Where do you think it came from?


not true check this
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/06/22/y-snp-calls-from-the-ancient-near-east/
while most of them were indeed e-z830 and e-m123 :unsure:
there is one e-m78 in PPNB remain
I1710 Levant PPNB E1b1b1a1-CTS675 calls
 
Honestly, how do they think it probably got to Europe????

Dropped from a spaceship? SHEESH!
 
Honestly, how do they think it probably got to Europe????

Dropped from a spaceship? SHEESH!

Fisherman from North Africa. We already know that iberomaurusian (the only culture where the father clade to E-V13 was found) culture had contact with european Cro magnon because their mtdna was european cromagnon in many samples.
 
Fisherman from North Africa. We already know that iberomaurusian (the only culture where the father clade to E-V13 was found) culture had contact with european Cro magnon because their mtdna was european cromagnon in many samples.

I don:t think it's directly from North Africa.

It's rather from Egypt > Levant > Anatolia > Balkans.

E-M78 and it's cousin Y-DNA that Natufians carried were the pioneers of farming.
 
I don:t think it's directly from North Africa.

It's rather from Egypt > Levant > Anatolia > Balkans.

E-M78 and it's cousin Y-DNA that Natufians carried were the pioneers of farming.

There is no proof of this. E-V13 came directly from E-M78 it doesn’t come from its cousin Natufian branch and E-M78 is almost non existent in ancient levant. There were no Levant cultures that had a large amount of E-M78 that could have brought it into Europe during the Neolithic or later.


“Loosdrecht et al. (2018) analysed genome-wide data from seven ancient individuals from the Iberomaurusian Grotte des Pigeons site near Taforalt in eastern Morocco. The fossils were directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 calibrated years before present. The scientists found that all males belonged to haplogroup E1b1b, common among Afroasiatic males. The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*).”

This is literally the only parent clade ever found to E-V13.
 
There is no proof of this. E-V13 came directly from E-M78 it doesn’t come from its cousin Natufian branch and E-M78 is almost non existent in ancient levant. There were no Levant cultures that had a large amount of E-M78 that could have brought it into Europe during the Neolithic or later.


“Loosdrecht et al. (2018) analysed genome-wide data from seven ancient individuals from the Iberomaurusian Grotte des Pigeons site near Taforalt in eastern Morocco. The fossils were directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 calibrated years before present. The scientists found that all males belonged to haplogroup E1b1b, common among Afroasiatic males. The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*).”

This is literally the only parent clade ever found to E-V13.

I already know that E-V13 is a descendant of E-M78. It's not rocket science to realize that. And i know that E-V13 with the Natufians share more distant common E-M35.

What i mean is that, Druze people in Levant do have E-V13. Let's see. Maybe we will find the immediate parent of E-V13 somewhere in East Anatolia. We don't know. The scenario posed by some people that western Iberomaurusians migrated to Iberia or Sicilia and from Sicilia to Balkans seems like funny made up stories.

Also, don't forget a sample from Neolithic Barcin Hoyuk from Anatolia is E-M35, i bet his downstream is E-M78.
 
There is no proof of this. E-V13 came directly from E-M78 it doesn’t come from its cousin Natufian branch and E-M78 is almost non existent in ancient levant. There were no Levant cultures that had a large amount of E-M78 that could have brought it into Europe during the Neolithic or later.


“Loosdrecht et al. (2018) analysed genome-wide data from seven ancient individuals from the Iberomaurusian Grotte des Pigeons site near Taforalt in eastern Morocco. The fossils were directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 calibrated years before present. The scientists found that all males belonged to haplogroup E1b1b, common among Afroasiatic males. The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*).”

This is literally the only parent clade ever found to E-V13.
E-L618, the father clade of V13, has been found in two Neolithic European sites so far. M78 was also found in Neolithic Hungary and Ukraine.

1. E-L618 from Zemunica cave, Croatia. Sample belonged to the Cardium Pottery Culture and was dated to have lived between 7,600-7,400ybp
2. E-L618 from Veszprem, Hungary. Sample belonged to the Lengyel Culture, dated to have lived between 6,780-6,700ybp
3. E-M78 from the outskirts of Budapest, Hungary. Belonged to the Sopot Culture, dated to have lived around 7,000-6,800ybp
4. E-M78 from Verteba cave, Ukraine. Belonged to the Cucuteni-Trypillian Culture, dated to have lived around 6,000-5,000ybp
 
What i mean is that, Druze people in Levant do have E-V13.
The V13 found in the Middle East and West Asia is primarily of recent European origin. They all belong to rather recent downstreams that originated and expanded out of Europe. The only groups that I have come across whom have a more basal V13 are the Ossetians and some Kurds, who are CTS1273*. But even this E-CTS1273* is of European input as it surely arrived with IE speakers.
 
Some people have nothing better to do than fantasize scenarios for which they have absolutely no proof.

When someone finds that Iberomaurusian sample in Iberia or Sicily far enough back in time to count let me know. Until then I'll stick with the more probable scenario.
 
Or: THE ORIGIN AND SPREAD OF THE LATE MESOLITHIC BLADE AND TRAPEZE INDUSTRIES IN EUROPE...

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f63d/6de16a30c07590bb2acbc7e551eb1bdaf0db.pdf

Some people have nothing better to do than fantasize scenarios for which they have absolutely no proof.
When someone finds that Iberomaurusian sample in Iberia or Sicily far enough back in time to count let me know. Until then I'll stick with the more probable scenario.


I don't know in what context you refer, i said i have read people wild-guessing that Iberomaurusians hopped from North Africa to Sicilia and then to Balkans which there is absolutely no proof of. Also, there is a proof from a Serbian archeologist that certain Montenegrin Late Mesolithic culture has some Iberomaurusian features, and the race of the people was a tall Mediterranean. Iberomaurusians or their eastern brethren which might be the parent of E-V13 had robust features and were considerably tall.
 
The V13 found in the Middle East and West Asia is primarily of recent European origin. They all belong to rather recent downstreams that originated and expanded out of Europe. The only groups that I have come across whom have a more basal V13 are the Ossetians and some Kurds, who are CTS1273*. But even this E-CTS1273* is of European input as it surely arrived with IE speakers.

That might be the case, but right now we are talking about different context. How the parent of E-V13 entered Europe. It's a huge mistery right now.
 
Some people have nothing better to do than fantasize scenarios for which they have absolutely no proof.

When someone finds that Iberomaurusian sample in Iberia or Sicily far enough back in time to count let me know. Until then I'll stick with the more probable scenario.

Which is what? What’s the more probable scenario? That it came from somewhere where the samples show it was almost non existent? E-M78 is almost non existent in both Neolithic european farmer samples and ancient Levant samples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
E-L618, the father clade of V13, has been found in two Neolithic European sites so far. M78 was also found in Neolithic Hungary and Ukraine.

1. E-L618 from Zemunica cave, Croatia. Sample belonged to the Cardium Pottery Culture and was dated to have lived between 7,600-7,400ybp
2. E-L618 from Veszprem, Hungary. Sample belonged to the Lengyel Culture, dated to have lived between 6,780-6,700ybp
3. E-M78 from the outskirts of Budapest, Hungary. Belonged to the Sopot Culture, dated to have lived around 7,000-6,800ybp
4. E-M78 from Verteba cave, Ukraine. Belonged to the Cucuteni-Trypillian Culture, dated to have lived around 6,000-5,000ybp

Thanks for the information I’m going to look into all of those. But this doesn’t help explain from where E-M78 entered Europe.
 
^^The "E" clades have moved across North Africa from east to west. What you're proposing is that E-V13 or its immediate predecessor made that trip all the way across North Africa to the straits, crossed them, and then traveled all the way east again to show up in Croatia, Hungary, Budapest and Ukraine in European Neolithic contexts, specifically the European Neolithic cultures which arrived from Anatolia?

How could that possibly be the most probable scenario.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but there isn't a shred of evidence that would support it, while meanwhile, as I said, E-V13s immediate predecessor is found in EEF contexts among people whose ancestors came from Anatolia.

Should any such evidence ever surface I'll be happy to accept it. I always follow the evidence. What possible difference could it make to me personally how it got into Europe? Actually, what possible difference could it make to anyone other than as a matter of intellectual curiosity. No need for all this emotion attached to it.
 

This thread has been viewed 236152 times.

Back
Top