Aspurg
Banned
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- Ethnic group
- Bædzænæg
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- E-A24070
- mtDNA haplogroup
- I1a1a
@Aspurg: All you say is reasonable, and I agree with it by and large, but don't you think it makes things more complicate than they have to be? I mean if we have a surviving Lengyel-Sopot/TCC tradition up in the Carpathian sphere, how could we even notice it archaeology after its assimilation? With a more South Wester, Dalmatian origin, you just have to explain yet another turn of events and migration. So while both is possible, I think a survival directly in the Carpathian zone is much more likely. And I asked the same question on Anthrogenica, I so far so not a single clade of E-V13 which must have been pre-LBA and especially none with a clearly wider spread and splitting pattern, like Britain : Balkan or Scandinavia : Near East dating to anything before the EIA. I guess that even some of the potential clades are just a matter of lack of more sampling, which will prove regional subclade of a similar age rather than anything older?
There is an issue of some lone E-BY3880* clades. One Albanian tested E-CTS5856*, likely per STR's BY3880*. Cluster of Macedonians E-BY3880*. Some other non-Z5018/Z5018 clades seem to have MBA/EBA presence in the Balkans, going per current result. If we go by TMRCA estimates then these clades should be explained.
With that in mind it was important for me to prove that CTS1273 was not born in the Balkans, even if some BY3880's might have been. Of the 3 non-BY3880 clades none going by the current evidence was born in the Balkans, indicating clearly CTS1273 wasn't either (and ofc most of their clades have Carpathian branches).
Take the example of Ossetians. They have a cluster R-Y5587>Y5586>BY71456. R-Y5587 with Carpathian R-Y14300 and generally East Balkan R-Y5586 seems to mimic Glina III culture well. In which case Ossetian cluster might be some stray Eastern Glina branch assimilated by the Srubnaya etc. But they also have E-CTS1273>FT7781 (BY3880-). R-Y5587>BY71456 Ossetian cluster might be a hint that E-FT7781 is of Glina branch as well. They could have had similar paths. They definitely seem to have similar paths for over 2000 years..
Also one argument if E-Y37092 indeed is related to Cetina culture, if we assume E-Y37092 came from the Carpathians, it would be little bit bizarre that it went to Dalmatia and made contact with a population of some E-L618 survivors.
If one takes Glina culture path then all stray Balkan E-V13 clades are easily explainable through some EBA migrations.. And this cannot be countered easily. To fit them into Urnfield you have to rely that in the future they will have their matches in the Urnfield areas.
Recently a Romanian E-Y35953 appeared and it seems that Romanians are the only people to have both major subclades of Y35953: E-PF6784 and E-BY15406. This new Romanian should be BY15406+ and there is a cluster of Romanians which seems to belong to E-PF6784. This is why it is important to test more Romanians because of larger V13 population there.
And ofc we hardly have Romanian BA/IA aDNA..
Another interesting question is, probably you can answer it, which other E1b clades could be associated with the survival and spread of E-V13, even though they were not as successful. Like we have a lot of E-M35 samples now from around Neolithic Europe and we have other, probably Germanic-Slavic E1b samples from Vikings and early Slavs-Germans as you know. Probably they survived together in the North Carpathian region until taking different paths, probably even some E1b1b departed earlier from the main E-V13 group in the North and managed to survive as a very small minority?
Well there is a L618 clade in Albanians: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y182141/
Not sure E-BY64249 are Saudis or Albanians (both of them are in this clade at FTDNA). This seems to fit into Cardial wave. There is some L618 Latvian with Chalcolitic links to Lebanon so we can't judge much there.
I spoke of a Z5017 clade before which has clearly old presence in Scandinavia: Norwegian, Swede, Dane with LBA/EIA TMRCA. None of them are at YFull yet. Their EBA/MBA relatives are in Scotland/Ireland.