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Thread: my recent family finder 'ethnic results'

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Many thanks (as usual) for your clear explanations Angela.

    This is the Dodecad run on 12b

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic_Med 28.76
    2 Caucasus 28.66
    3 North_European 16.86
    4 Southwest_Asian 10.52
    5 Northwest_African 7.06
    6 Gedrosia 5.85
    7 East_African 1.10


    Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 C_Italian @ 8.820288
    2 O_Italian @ 9.579761
    3 Sicilian @ 10.060098
    4 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 10.656211
    5 Greek @ 11.766392
    6 Ashkenazi @ 12.190835
    7 Tuscan @ 12.372108
    8 TSI30 @ 12.584416
    9 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 12.594862
    10 Morocco_Jews @ 15.396591
    11 Sephardic_Jews @ 15.583058
    12 N_Italian @ 17.280655
    13 North_Italian @ 18.959211
    14 Bulgarian @ 20.440601
    15 Bulgarians @ 20.870832
    16 Romanians @ 21.571959
    17 Canarias @ 26.468821
    18 Baleares @ 26.780981
    19 Cypriots @ 26.962145
    20 Turkish @ 27.140495

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Morocco_Jews +50% O_Italian @ 5.587129


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Morocco_Jews +25% N_Italian +25% Romanians @ 3.070553


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Ashkenazy_Jews + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.083963
    2 German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + Sicilian @ 2.104380
    3 Canarias + Druze + Hungarians + Morocco_Jews @ 2.111102
    4 Ashkenazy_Jews + Dutch + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.223024
    5 Canarias + Lebanese + Romanians + Sicilian @ 2.322811
    6 Ashkenazi + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.327231
    7 Ashkenazy_Jews + German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.414094
    8 German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2.430136
    9 Bulgarian + Canarias + Lebanese + Sicilian @ 2.486896
    10 Ashkenazi + Dutch + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.488361
    11 Ashkenazi + German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.521348
    12 Bulgarians + Canarias + Lebanese + Sicilian @ 2.540962
    13 Ashkenazy_Jews + CEU30 + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.577677
    14 Ashkenazy_Jews + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.614861
    15 Ashkenazy_Jews + Dutch + Morocco_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.616382
    16 Canarias + Druze + Hungarians + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.639705
    17 Ashkenazy_Jews + English + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.648830
    18 Ashkenazi + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.661152
    19 Ashkenazy_Jews + Kent + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.677732
    20 Canarias + Lebanese + Romanians + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2.689441

    It gets a little complex as it goes in 4 population mixes. Lots of Morroco Jews and Ashkenazy there (!). I just read their history and some of them were expelled from Spain to Morroco. There is a history in Malta that local Jews converted to Catholicism to avoid persecution in 1200's, so it can make some historical sense. On the other hand its not easy to interpret that with the first chart of population percentages (hmm bit complicated)

    What run provided the 6.67 number? Was that also a Dodecad run?

    Interpreting Admixture results is more of an art than a science, I'm afraid, which is why they shouldn't be taken as gospel, and also why people get so confused. A "Moroccan Jew" in Oracle doesn't mean that you necessarily have Sephardic Jews of the North African variety in your actual tree, although it could. What it can also mean, and usually does mean is that you carry a combination of "Mediterranean" genes with some northern European input and also some North African Berber. (North African Jews are very highly inbred in the last millennia or so, as are all Jewish populations, but their genesis is in coastal Mediterranean Jewish populations with some Berber admixture and perhaps some Iberian input from their sojourn there.)

    The fact that OT and Central Italian show up so high in the list, before Sicilians, actually makes sense to me given that you have a British great grandfather. The algorithm is finding a southern European population that has more northern European in it than the Sicilians, and then finding the North African in the Moroccan Jews.

    The Ashkenazi result is also not surprising. A lot of southern Italians get Ashkenazim somewhere in their top five results. It's the second result for a man whose account I manage, yet he has almost no Ashkenazim in relative finder, which means no IBD sharing within hundreds and hundreds of years. I also have done extensive research into the Jewish communities of southern Italy and Sicily, and although there are certainly records of Jews remaining behind after the takeover of the south by the Spaniards and the subsequent expulsion (people converted in order to remain, as they did in Iberia) the numbers in comparison to the total population were extremely small, with most of the Jews going into exile. The similarity largely results, I think, from descent from similar groups, or perhaps from the fact that a good part of the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis may have involved intermarriage with the Sea Peoples, and then with Greek converts during the Hellenistic Era. The proscriptions against proselytizing and intermarriage with women of other religions, for example, didn't arise until quite a bit later. We won't know for sure until we have some genomes from pre-diaspora Jews.


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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What run provided the 6.67 number? Was that also a Dodecad run?

    Interpreting Admixture results is more of an art than a science, I'm afraid, which is why they shouldn't be taken as gospel, and also why people get so confused. A "Moroccan Jew" in Oracle doesn't mean that you necessarily have Sephardic Jews of the North African variety in your actual tree, although it could. What it can also mean, and usually does mean is that you carry a combination of "Mediterranean" genes with some northern European input and also some North African Berber. (North African Jews are very highly inbred in the last millennia or so, as are all Jewish populations, but their genesis is in coastal Mediterranean Jewish populations with some Berber admixture and perhaps some Iberian input from their sojourn there.)

    The fact that OT and Central Italian show up so high in the list, before Sicilians, actually makes sense to me given that you have a British great grandfather. The algorithm is finding a southern European population that has more northern European in it than the Sicilians, and then finding the North African in the Moroccan Jews.

    The Ashkenazi result is also not surprising. A lot of southern Italians get Ashkenazim somewhere in their top five results. It's the second result for a man whose account I manage, yet he has almost no Ashkenazim in relative finder, which means no IBD sharing within hundreds and hundreds of years. I also have done extensive research into the Jewish communities of southern Italy and Sicily, and although there are certainly records of Jews remaining behind after the takeover of the south by the Spaniards and the subsequent expulsion (people converted in order to remain, as they did in Iberia) the numbers in comparison to the total population were extremely small, with most of the Jews going into exile. The similarity largely results, I think, from descent from similar groups, or perhaps from the fact that a good part of the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis may have involved intermarriage with the Sea Peoples, and then with Greek converts during the Hellenistic Era. The proscriptions against proselytizing and intermarriage with women of other religions, for example, didn't arise until quite a bit later. We won't know for sure until we have some genomes from pre-diaspora Jews.
    you surely make things much more understandable (clear). Thank you again!. I tend to click runs at random and forgot what I have clicked, but finally managed to find the 6.67 number run. its Eurogenes EU test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Yes I followed those charts. Three groups seem to be closely connected that is Ashkenazi, Sicilian and Maltese. Did you run this John?

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 6.67
    2 Tuscan 7.85
    3 AJ 8.94
    4 GR 10.4
    5 North_Italian 11.82
    6 PT 17.17
    7 RO 18.45
    8 ES 19.07
    9 Serbian 20.1
    10 FR 22.53
    11 AT 24.42
    12 TR 25.04
    13 HU 25.45
    14 Moroccan 27.33
    15 IQ 28.2
    16 West_&_Central_German 28.33
    17 Samaritan 28.88
    18 Algerian 28.94
    19 Assyrian 29
    20 NL 29.47

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 73.2% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 26.8% PT @ 2.44
    2 75.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 24.6% ES @ 2.57
    3 71.6% North_Italian + 28.4% Samaritan @ 3.16
    4 84.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15.3% French_Basque @ 3.25
    5 64.1% PT + 35.9% Druze @ 3.29
    6 79.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 20.6% FR @ 3.33
    7 61.6% ES + 38.4% Druze @ 3.48
    8 66.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 33.5% North_Italian @ 3.51
    9 84.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15.6% Cornish @ 3.78
    10 80.7% Tuscan + 19.3% Samaritan @ 3.84
    11 86% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14% Scottish @ 3.95
    12 87.8% Tuscan + 12.2% Bedouin @ 3.95
    13 63.5% GR + 36.5% PT @ 3.97
    14 85.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14.3% Orcadian @ 4.03
    15 54.2% Tuscan + 45.8% AJ @ 4.05
    16 85% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15% English @ 4.05
    17 85.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14.1% IE @ 4.05
    18 80.6% Tuscan + 19.4% IQ @ 4.07
    19 73% North_Italian + 27% Druze @ 4.09
    20 56% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 44% Tuscan @ 4.12


    Do you have an idea what the percentages are and what the distance stand for (excuse my ignorance)
    Here are my results from Dodecad 12:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 35.85
    2 Atlantic_Med 28.29
    3 North_European 13.68
    4 Southwest_Asian 12.62
    5 Gedrosia 4.92
    6 Northwest_African 2.89


    Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2.946136
    2 Sicilian @ 3.145499
    3 Ashkenazi @ 5.229614
    4 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 5.473091
    5 Greek @ 7.764585
    6 C_Italian @ 9.230050
    7 Sephardic_Jews @ 9.567550
    8 Morocco_Jews @ 12.536876
    9 O_Italian @ 13.260434
    10 Tuscan @ 13.599797
    11 TSI30 @ 15.076990
    12 Cypriots @ 18.848753
    13 Turkish @ 21.478111
    14 N_Italian @ 22.167940
    15 North_Italian @ 23.180607
    16 Bulgarian @ 23.424467
    17 Bulgarians @ 23.600304
    18 Lebanese @ 23.718493
    19 Turks @ 24.328362
    20 Romanians @ 25.058332

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek +50% Sephardic_Jews @ 2.595415


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek +25% Morocco_Jews +25% S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.375685


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Greek + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.237713
    2 Ashkenazi + C_Italian + Druze + N_Italian @ 1.244316
    3 Ashkenazy_Jews + C_Italian + Druze + N_Italian @ 1.358636
    4 Cypriots + O_Italian + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.369294
    5 Greek + Greek + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.375685
    6 Cypriots + Greek + Morocco_Jews + N_Italian @ 1.465503
    7 Ashkenazy_Jews + O_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.490708
    8 Ashkenazi + Druze + O_Italian + TSI30 @ 1.521947
    9 Ashkenazy_Jews + C_Italian + Druze + North_Italian @ 1.540110
    10 Ashkenazy_Jews + Baleares + Druze + Greek @ 1.565091
    11 Ashkenazi + C_Italian + Druze + North_Italian @ 1.583420
    12 Druze + Greek + North_Italian + Sicilian @ 1.590638
    13 Ashkenazi + O_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.609313
    14 Ashkenazi + Lebanese + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 1.610995
    15 Greek + Greek + Morocco_Jews + Sicilian @ 1.649405
    16 Cypriots + Cypriots + Greek + Portuguese @ 1.653350
    17 Ashkenazi + Druze + TSI30 + TSI30 @ 1.653423
    18 Cypriots + Morocco_Jews + O_Italian + O_Italian @ 1.676344
    19 Ashkenazy_Jews + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews + Sicilian @ 1.681193
    20 Ashkenazi + C_Italian + Lebanese + Tuscan @ 1.685583

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Here are my results from Dodecad 12:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 35.85
    2 Atlantic_Med 28.29
    3 North_European 13.68
    4 Southwest_Asian 12.62
    5 Gedrosia 4.92
    6 Northwest_African 2.89


    Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2.946136
    2 Sicilian @ 3.145499
    3 Ashkenazi @ 5.229614
    4 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 5.473091
    5 Greek @ 7.764585
    6 C_Italian @ 9.230050
    7 Sephardic_Jews @ 9.567550
    8 Morocco_Jews @ 12.536876
    9 O_Italian @ 13.260434
    10 Tuscan @ 13.599797
    11 TSI30 @ 15.076990
    12 Cypriots @ 18.848753
    13 Turkish @ 21.478111
    14 N_Italian @ 22.167940
    15 North_Italian @ 23.180607
    16 Bulgarian @ 23.424467
    17 Bulgarians @ 23.600304
    18 Lebanese @ 23.718493
    19 Turks @ 24.328362
    20 Romanians @ 25.058332

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek +50% Sephardic_Jews @ 2.595415


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek +25% Morocco_Jews +25% S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.375685


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Greek + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.237713
    2 Ashkenazi + C_Italian + Druze + N_Italian @ 1.244316
    3 Ashkenazy_Jews + C_Italian + Druze + N_Italian @ 1.358636
    4 Cypriots + O_Italian + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.369294
    5 Greek + Greek + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.375685
    6 Cypriots + Greek + Morocco_Jews + N_Italian @ 1.465503
    7 Ashkenazy_Jews + O_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.490708
    8 Ashkenazi + Druze + O_Italian + TSI30 @ 1.521947
    9 Ashkenazy_Jews + C_Italian + Druze + North_Italian @ 1.540110
    10 Ashkenazy_Jews + Baleares + Druze + Greek @ 1.565091
    11 Ashkenazi + C_Italian + Druze + North_Italian @ 1.583420
    12 Druze + Greek + North_Italian + Sicilian @ 1.590638
    13 Ashkenazi + O_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.609313
    14 Ashkenazi + Lebanese + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 1.610995
    15 Greek + Greek + Morocco_Jews + Sicilian @ 1.649405
    16 Cypriots + Cypriots + Greek + Portuguese @ 1.653350
    17 Ashkenazi + Druze + TSI30 + TSI30 @ 1.653423
    18 Cypriots + Morocco_Jews + O_Italian + O_Italian @ 1.676344
    19 Ashkenazy_Jews + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews + Sicilian @ 1.681193
    20 Ashkenazi + C_Italian + Lebanese + Tuscan @ 1.685583
    Very interesting :). You seem to have much less Jewish references (21 compared to my 37) in the 4 population mix and I presume both your parents are of Jewish origins. However as Angela mentioned that could be maybe a reference to a Berber percentage. However Morocco Jews are singled out probably for a different genetic mix compared to the general Berber population. There is North West Africa also specifically mentioned in population percentages which could also be a more direct reference to a Berber mix. You also have Sephardic references. We have no known Jewish ancestry at least since 1200's. The population percentages again are more or less similar give and take a few percentages, and interestingly we both have Gedrosia (I think its an area outside north west of India, maybe Pakistan?) that eliminates Oceania (Papa New gunea) from another test run. Oh people did move around in the olden days didn't they? . My final argument is with the amount of Morrocon Jews thrown in my 4 population mix equation, I should be 50% north west African and not just 7.06% as the population percentage chart shows. I will make a few more runs later on the day to see what the oracles are saying. We both have 1 something percent missing.....probably its neandertal :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Very interesting :). You seem to have much less Jewish references (21 compared to my 37) in the 4 population mix and I presume both your parents are of Jewish origins.
    My mum is an Ashkenazi Jew with ancestry going to Poland, while my father (whom I never knew) was also an Ashkenazi Jew with ancestry going to Germany and Poland. However, my father was much fairer than my mum, don't know if that means much though.

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    @Maleth,
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Very interesting :). You seem to have much less Jewish references (21 compared to my 37) in the 4 population mix and I presume both your parents are of Jewish origins. However as Angela mentioned that could be maybe a reference to a Berber percentage. However Morocco Jews are singled out probably for a different genetic mix compared to the general Berber population. There is North West Africa also specifically mentioned in population percentages which could also be a more direct reference to a Berber mix. You also have Sephardic references. We have no known Jewish ancestry at least since 1200's. The population percentages again are more or less similar give and take a few percentages, and interestingly we both have Gedrosia (I think its an area outside north west of India, maybe Pakistan?) that eliminates Oceania (Papa New gunea) from another test run. Oh people did move around in the olden days didn't they? . My final argument is with the amount of Morrocon Jews thrown in my 4 population mix equation, I should be 50% north west African and not just 7.06% as the population percentage chart shows. I will make a few more runs later on the day to see what the oracles are saying. We both have 1 something percent missing.....probably its neandertal :)
    I hope I didn't mislead you; while there is definitely Berber ancestry present in North African Jews, it is a minor part of their ancestry.
    This graphic is still pretty accurate and might help in visualizing the relationships:


    The Jews, as a maritime commercial community like the Phoenicians before them for a rough analogy, had diaspora communities before the destruction of the Temple and their scattering by the Romans, although unlike the Phoenicians they retained their distinctive identity. There were Jews in North Africa and Iberia, for example, long before then, and some degree of admixture took place. (Of course, in the Roman Era refugees would have swelled their ranks.) Some, if not most, of the North African Jews probably then moved into Iberia with the Arab conquest, and with the expulsions, some of them then moved back to North Africa, bearing some Iberian input. This is why they now follow the Sephardic (Spanish) rite in their religious practices. It's a complicated story. What is clear, however, is that modern North African Jews do not have the up to 25% SSA input that is present in many North Africans today. (The North African Jewish communities are also amazingly distinct from one another.)

    You may in fact be familiar with some North African Jews without being aware of it.
    The philosophers Bernard Henri Levy and Jacques Derrida, for example:


    Jacques Derrida:


    Claude Cohen Tannoudji-Nobel prize winning physicist:


    Gregory Fitoussi-actor. He was recently the lead in the series "Selfridges".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    you surely make things much more understandable (clear). Thank you again!. I tend to click runs at random and forgot what I have clicked, but finally managed to find the 6.67 number run. its Eurogenes EU test.
    Here are my results from the Eurogenes EU test:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 EAST_MED 29.89
    2 ATLANTIC 14.88
    3 WEST_MED 14.56
    4 WEST_ASIAN 12.28
    5 MIDDLE_EASTERN 10.43
    6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.42
    7 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.05
    8 EAST_EURO 3.27
    9 WEST_AFRICAN 0.63
    10 EAST_ASIAN 0.35
    11 EAST_AFRICAN 0.24

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 4.78
    2 AJ 6.1
    3 GR 6.75
    4 Tuscan 12.45
    5 North_Italian 16.65
    6 TR 19.63
    7 RO 19.72
    8 Serbian 21.54
    9 PT 22.74
    10 Assyrian 23.12
    11 IQ 23.51
    12 Armenian 23.99
    13 ES 24.4
    14 Mandean 24.85
    15 Samaritan 25.08
    16 Kurdish 25.51
    17 Druze 25.55
    18 IR 25.81
    19 FR 26.95
    20 AT 27.24

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 94.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.2% Udmurt @ 4.11
    2 93.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.3% Scottish @ 4.12
    3 51.4% Assyrian + 48.6% ES @ 4.19
    4 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% IE @ 4.19
    5 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% Orcadian @ 4.2
    6 95.1% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.9% Erzya @ 4.21
    7 94.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.4% North_Swedish @ 4.24
    8 95.1% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.9% South_Finnish @ 4.26
    9 95.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.7% East_Finnish @ 4.27
    10 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% Cornish @ 4.28
    11 90.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 9.1% Serbian @ 4.28
    12 95.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.5% Komi @ 4.29
    13 67.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 32.5% AJ @ 4.3
    14 94.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.5% DK @ 4.3
    15 95.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.5% North_Russian @ 4.3
    16 95.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.7% East_Russian @ 4.31
    17 93.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.2% West_&_Central_German @ 4.32
    18 94.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.2% NO @ 4.33
    19 90.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 9.5% RO @ 4.33
    20 95.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.4% EE @ 4.33


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 EAST_MED 29.89
    2 ATLANTIC 14.88
    3 WEST_MED 14.56
    4 WEST_ASIAN 12.28
    5 MIDDLE_EASTERN 10.43
    6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.42
    7 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.05
    8 EAST_EURO 3.27


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.323043
    2 AJ @ 6.923173
    3 GR @ 7.640398
    4 Tuscan @ 14.153313
    5 North_Italian @ 19.127386
    6 TR @ 22.196642
    7 RO @ 22.587809
    8 Serbian @ 24.797844
    9 PT @ 26.361053
    10 IQ @ 26.498209
    11 Assyrian @ 26.574596
    12 Armenian @ 27.604151
    13 ES @ 28.267944
    14 Mandean @ 28.380276
    15 Kurdish @ 28.843000
    16 IR @ 28.933260
    17 Samaritan @ 28.947187
    18 Druze @ 29.932791
    19 FR @ 31.357939
    20 AT @ 31.518906

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Assyrian +50% ES @ 4.891476


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% AJ +25% Druze +25% French_Basque @ 3.777595


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Assyrian + Druze + ES + ES @ 2.376303
    2 Druze + ES + ES + Mandean @ 2.662993
    3 Druze + French_Basque + Mandean + North_Italian @ 2.664304
    4 AJ + Druze + French_Basque + TR @ 2.701958
    5 Assyrian + Druze + ES + PT @ 2.709047
    6 Druze + French_Basque + Mandean + Tuscan @ 2.806685
    7 Armenian + Druze + ES + ES @ 3.055863
    8 Armenian + Druze + ES + PT @ 3.061779
    9 Assyrian + Druze + ES + North_Italian @ 3.071738
    10 Druze + ES + Mandean + PT @ 3.098068
    11 Druze + French_Basque + South_Italian_&_Sicilian + TR @ 3.150371
    12 Assyrian + Druze + French_Basque + North_Italian @ 3.157905
    13 Assyrian + Druze + French_Basque + Tuscan @ 3.202078
    14 Druze + ES + Mandean + North_Italian @ 3.208415
    15 Druze + ES + FR + Mandean @ 3.212695
    16 Assyrian + Druze + PT + PT @ 3.287118
    17 Assyrian + Druze + ES + FR @ 3.294758
    18 AJ + Druze + French_Basque + GR @ 3.313377
    19 Armenian + Druze + PT + PT @ 3.372040
    20 Druze + French_Basque + IQ + Tuscan @ 3.377867

    Pretty sure the ES is Extremadura Spanish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    you surely make things much more understandable (clear). Thank you again!. I tend to click runs at random and forgot what I have clicked, but finally managed to find the 6.67 number run. its Eurogenes EU test.
    Here are my results from the Eurogenes EU test:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 EAST_MED 29.89
    2 ATLANTIC 14.88
    3 WEST_MED 14.56
    4 WEST_ASIAN 12.28
    5 MIDDLE_EASTERN 10.43
    6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.42
    7 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.05
    8 EAST_EURO 3.27
    9 WEST_AFRICAN 0.63
    10 EAST_ASIAN 0.35
    11 EAST_AFRICAN 0.24

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 4.78
    2 AJ 6.1
    3 GR 6.75
    4 Tuscan 12.45
    5 North_Italian 16.65
    6 TR 19.63
    7 RO 19.72
    8 Serbian 21.54
    9 PT 22.74
    10 Assyrian 23.12
    11 IQ 23.51
    12 Armenian 23.99
    13 ES 24.4
    14 Mandean 24.85
    15 Samaritan 25.08
    16 Kurdish 25.51
    17 Druze 25.55
    18 IR 25.81
    19 FR 26.95
    20 AT 27.24

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 94.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.2% Udmurt @ 4.11
    2 93.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.3% Scottish @ 4.12
    3 51.4% Assyrian + 48.6% ES @ 4.19
    4 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% IE @ 4.19
    5 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% Orcadian @ 4.2
    6 95.1% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.9% Erzya @ 4.21
    7 94.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.4% North_Swedish @ 4.24
    8 95.1% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.9% South_Finnish @ 4.26
    9 95.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.7% East_Finnish @ 4.27
    10 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% Cornish @ 4.28
    11 90.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 9.1% Serbian @ 4.28
    12 95.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.5% Komi @ 4.29
    13 67.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 32.5% AJ @ 4.3
    14 94.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.5% DK @ 4.3
    15 95.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.5% North_Russian @ 4.3
    16 95.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.7% East_Russian @ 4.31
    17 93.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.2% West_&_Central_German @ 4.32
    18 94.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.2% NO @ 4.33
    19 90.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 9.5% RO @ 4.33
    20 95.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.4% EE @ 4.33


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 EAST_MED 29.89
    2 ATLANTIC 14.88
    3 WEST_MED 14.56
    4 WEST_ASIAN 12.28
    5 MIDDLE_EASTERN 10.43
    6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.42
    7 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.05
    8 EAST_EURO 3.27


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.323043
    2 AJ @ 6.923173
    3 GR @ 7.640398
    4 Tuscan @ 14.153313
    5 North_Italian @ 19.127386
    6 TR @ 22.196642
    7 RO @ 22.587809
    8 Serbian @ 24.797844
    9 PT @ 26.361053
    10 IQ @ 26.498209
    11 Assyrian @ 26.574596
    12 Armenian @ 27.604151
    13 ES @ 28.267944
    14 Mandean @ 28.380276
    15 Kurdish @ 28.843000
    16 IR @ 28.933260
    17 Samaritan @ 28.947187
    18 Druze @ 29.932791
    19 FR @ 31.357939
    20 AT @ 31.518906

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Assyrian +50% ES @ 4.891476


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% AJ +25% Druze +25% French_Basque @ 3.777595


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Assyrian + Druze + ES + ES @ 2.376303
    2 Druze + ES + ES + Mandean @ 2.662993
    3 Druze + French_Basque + Mandean + North_Italian @ 2.664304
    4 AJ + Druze + French_Basque + TR @ 2.701958
    5 Assyrian + Druze + ES + PT @ 2.709047
    6 Druze + French_Basque + Mandean + Tuscan @ 2.806685
    7 Armenian + Druze + ES + ES @ 3.055863
    8 Armenian + Druze + ES + PT @ 3.061779
    9 Assyrian + Druze + ES + North_Italian @ 3.071738
    10 Druze + ES + Mandean + PT @ 3.098068
    11 Druze + French_Basque + South_Italian_&_Sicilian + TR @ 3.150371
    12 Assyrian + Druze + French_Basque + North_Italian @ 3.157905
    13 Assyrian + Druze + French_Basque + Tuscan @ 3.202078
    14 Druze + ES + Mandean + North_Italian @ 3.208415
    15 Druze + ES + FR + Mandean @ 3.212695
    16 Assyrian + Druze + PT + PT @ 3.287118
    17 Assyrian + Druze + ES + FR @ 3.294758
    18 AJ + Druze + French_Basque + GR @ 3.313377
    19 Armenian + Druze + PT + PT @ 3.372040
    20 Druze + French_Basque + IQ + Tuscan @ 3.377867


    Pretty sure the ES is Extremadura Spanish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    @Maleth,


    I hope I didn't mislead you; while there is definitely Berber ancestry present in North African Jews, it is a minor part of their ancestry.
    This graphic is still pretty accurate and might help in visualizing the relationships:


    The Jews, as a maritime commercial community like the Phoenicians before them for a rough analogy, had diaspora communities before the destruction of the Temple and their scattering by the Romans, although unlike the Phoenicians they retained their distinctive identity. There were Jews in North Africa and Iberia, for example, long before then, and some degree of admixture took place. (Of course, in the Roman Era refugees would have swelled their ranks.) Some, if not most, of the North African Jews probably then moved into Iberia with the Arab conquest, and with the expulsions, some of them then moved back to North Africa, bearing some Iberian input. This is why they now follow the Sephardic (Spanish) rite in their religious practices. It's a complicated story. What is clear, however, is that modern North African Jews do not have the up to 25% SSA input that is present in many North Africans today. (The North African Jewish communities are also amazingly distinct from one another.)

    You may in fact be familiar with some North African Jews without being aware of it.
    The philosophers Bernard Henri Levy and Jacques Derrida, for example:


    Jacques Derrida:


    Claude Cohen Tannoudji-Nobel prize winning physicist:


    Gregory Fitoussi-actor. He was recently the lead in the series "Selfridges".
    In fact I just had a read on Haplogroups amoungst North African and Portughese Jews, in both cases E-M81 is quite minimal just as you stated.This is what it says:- quote:- Y-DNA of Jews from North Africa[edit]

    The largest study to date on the Jews of North Africa has been led by Gerard Lucotte et al. in 2003.[33] This study showed that the Jews of North Africa[Note 7] showed frequencies of their paternal haplotypes almost equal to those of the Lebanese and Palestinian non-Jews.
    The authors also compared the distribution of haplotypes of Jews from North Africa with Sephardi Jews and Ashkenazi Jews and found a common origin between these groups.[39] The Jewish community of the island of Djerba in Tunisia is of special interest, making the tradition back to the time of the destruction of the First Temple. Two studies have attempted to test this hypothesis first by G. Lucotte et al. from 1993,[40] the second of F. Manni et al. of 2005.[41] They also conclude that the Jews of Djerba's paternal gene pool is different from the Arabs and Berbers of the island. For the first 77.5% of samples tested are of haplotype VIII (probably similar to the J haplogroup according Lucotte), the second shows that 100% of the samples are of Haplogroup J *. The second suggests that it is unlikely that the majority of this community comes from an ancient colonization of the island while for Lucotte it is unclear whether this high frequency is really an ancient relationship.
    These studies therefore suggest that the paternal lineage of North African Jews comes predominantly from the Middle East with a minority contribution of African lineages, probably Berbers-: end quote


    Y-DNA of Portuguese Jews[edit]

    A recent study by Inês Nogueiro et al. (July 2009) on the Jews of north-eastern Portugal (region of Trás-os-Montes) showed that their paternal lines consisted of 35.2% lineages more typical of Europe (R : 31.7%, I : 3.5%), and 64.8% lineages more typical of the Near East than Europe (E1b1b: 8.7%, G: 3.5%, J: 36.8%, T: 15.8%) and consequently, the Portuguese Jews of this region were genetically closer to other Jewish populations than to Portuguese non-Jews.[42]
    N E-M78 E-M81 E-M34 G I J1 J2 T R1a R1b1b1 R1b1b1b2
    57 3.5% 5.2% 0% 3.5% 3.5% 12.3% 24.5% 15.8% 1.8% 1.8% 28.1%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic...m_North_Africa

    I wasnt aware that the people you mentioned were ancestors of North African Jews. Thanks for info. So J would be the most common haplotype (including J2 I would imagine.) I believe that in antiquity at a particular point in time it would have been correct to term the people of the Asian med Canaanites all the way down from Syria Lebanon and Israel. This is when the long sea ventures were taking place. J2 is also found in significant numbers in South Europe (Balkans and south of Italy, including Malta at 22% J2 / 8% J1). So from what I can gather this makes me curious to know the haplogroup from my Mothers father, I very much believe it might turn to be a J1 or J2. (my next phase of the project to find out) Unfortunately the name is not in the dna project and I was not successful to have anyone tested. I think my father E-V13 puts me in the South europe / Balkan area. My Grandmother from my father side ydna was G2a (according to the dna project) and Grandmothers father from my mother side was British (presuming to be R1b) I asked my mother if his mum was Jewish and she said she didint think so. (so I dont know where I got that from) Her name was Jane Lane and could not related the surname to Jewish orgins). My great grand mothers father (from my mum side) was I2b (according to the dna project). More difficult to to get Mtdna, and all I know that my mother is H. So there you go that is already quite a mix ...........but one learns something new every day
    Last edited by Maleth; 07-02-15 at 18:53. Reason: to add source

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Here are my results from the Eurogenes EU test:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 EAST_MED 29.89
    2 ATLANTIC 14.88
    3 WEST_MED 14.56
    4 WEST_ASIAN 12.28
    5 MIDDLE_EASTERN 10.43
    6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.42
    7 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.05
    8 EAST_EURO 3.27
    9 WEST_AFRICAN 0.63
    10 EAST_ASIAN 0.35
    11 EAST_AFRICAN 0.24

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 4.78
    2 AJ 6.1
    3 GR 6.75
    4 Tuscan 12.45
    5 North_Italian 16.65
    6 TR 19.63
    7 RO 19.72
    8 Serbian 21.54
    9 PT 22.74
    10 Assyrian 23.12
    11 IQ 23.51
    12 Armenian 23.99
    13 ES 24.4
    14 Mandean 24.85
    15 Samaritan 25.08
    16 Kurdish 25.51
    17 Druze 25.55
    18 IR 25.81
    19 FR 26.95
    20 AT 27.24

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 94.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.2% Udmurt @ 4.11
    2 93.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.3% Scottish @ 4.12
    3 51.4% Assyrian + 48.6% ES @ 4.19
    4 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% IE @ 4.19
    5 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% Orcadian @ 4.2
    6 95.1% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.9% Erzya @ 4.21
    7 94.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.4% North_Swedish @ 4.24
    8 95.1% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.9% South_Finnish @ 4.26
    9 95.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.7% East_Finnish @ 4.27
    10 93.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.1% Cornish @ 4.28
    11 90.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 9.1% Serbian @ 4.28
    12 95.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.5% Komi @ 4.29
    13 67.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 32.5% AJ @ 4.3
    14 94.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.5% DK @ 4.3
    15 95.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.5% North_Russian @ 4.3
    16 95.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.7% East_Russian @ 4.31
    17 93.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 6.2% West_&_Central_German @ 4.32
    18 94.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 5.2% NO @ 4.33
    19 90.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 9.5% RO @ 4.33
    20 95.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 4.4% EE @ 4.33


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 EAST_MED 29.89
    2 ATLANTIC 14.88
    3 WEST_MED 14.56
    4 WEST_ASIAN 12.28
    5 MIDDLE_EASTERN 10.43
    6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.42
    7 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.05
    8 EAST_EURO 3.27


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.323043
    2 AJ @ 6.923173
    3 GR @ 7.640398
    4 Tuscan @ 14.153313
    5 North_Italian @ 19.127386
    6 TR @ 22.196642
    7 RO @ 22.587809
    8 Serbian @ 24.797844
    9 PT @ 26.361053
    10 IQ @ 26.498209
    11 Assyrian @ 26.574596
    12 Armenian @ 27.604151
    13 ES @ 28.267944
    14 Mandean @ 28.380276
    15 Kurdish @ 28.843000
    16 IR @ 28.933260
    17 Samaritan @ 28.947187
    18 Druze @ 29.932791
    19 FR @ 31.357939
    20 AT @ 31.518906

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Assyrian +50% ES @ 4.891476


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% AJ +25% Druze +25% French_Basque @ 3.777595


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Assyrian + Druze + ES + ES @ 2.376303
    2 Druze + ES + ES + Mandean @ 2.662993
    3 Druze + French_Basque + Mandean + North_Italian @ 2.664304
    4 AJ + Druze + French_Basque + TR @ 2.701958
    5 Assyrian + Druze + ES + PT @ 2.709047
    6 Druze + French_Basque + Mandean + Tuscan @ 2.806685
    7 Armenian + Druze + ES + ES @ 3.055863
    8 Armenian + Druze + ES + PT @ 3.061779
    9 Assyrian + Druze + ES + North_Italian @ 3.071738
    10 Druze + ES + Mandean + PT @ 3.098068
    11 Druze + French_Basque + South_Italian_&_Sicilian + TR @ 3.150371
    12 Assyrian + Druze + French_Basque + North_Italian @ 3.157905
    13 Assyrian + Druze + French_Basque + Tuscan @ 3.202078
    14 Druze + ES + Mandean + North_Italian @ 3.208415
    15 Druze + ES + FR + Mandean @ 3.212695
    16 Assyrian + Druze + PT + PT @ 3.287118
    17 Assyrian + Druze + ES + FR @ 3.294758
    18 AJ + Druze + French_Basque + GR @ 3.313377
    19 Armenian + Druze + PT + PT @ 3.372040
    20 Druze + French_Basque + IQ + Tuscan @ 3.377867


    Pretty sure the ES is Extremadura Spanish.
    You are more closely related to Sicilians then I am, so I was correct to classify your photo as south european. Would you be knowing your ydna deeper subclade from the new results?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post


    You are more closely related to Sicilians then I am, so I was correct to classify your photo as south european. Would you be knowing your ydna deeper subclade from the new results?
    Unfortunately the test with FTDNA that I currently took was a gift from a friend, and the friend gave me the cheapest version which is the autosomal version, however, when I'll have the possibility I'll take the Y test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Unfortunately the test with FTDNA that I currently took was a gift from a friend, and the friend gave me the cheapest version which is the autosomal version, however, when I'll have the possibility I'll take the Y test.
    It will happen one day. Since you already know you have the basic E-35, I am inclined to believe from your automsmal results you might be E-34 (which is the second most popular haplogroup amoungst Jews) or maybe even V13...never know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    In fact I just had a read on Haplogroups amoungst North African and Portughese Jews, in both cases E-M81 is quite minimal just as you stated.This is what it says:- quote:- Y-DNA of Jews from North Africa[edit]

    The largest study to date on the Jews of North Africa has been led by Gerard Lucotte et al. in 2003.[33] This study showed that the Jews of North Africa[Note 7] showed frequencies of their paternal haplotypes almost equal to those of the Lebanese and Palestinian non-Jews.
    The authors also compared the distribution of haplotypes of Jews from North Africa with Sephardi Jews and Ashkenazi Jews and found a common origin between these groups.[39] The Jewish community of the island of Djerba in Tunisia is of special interest, making the tradition back to the time of the destruction of the First Temple. Two studies have attempted to test this hypothesis first by G. Lucotte et al. from 1993,[40] the second of F. Manni et al. of 2005.[41] They also conclude that the Jews of Djerba's paternal gene pool is different from the Arabs and Berbers of the island. For the first 77.5% of samples tested are of haplotype VIII (probably similar to the J haplogroup according Lucotte), the second shows that 100% of the samples are of Haplogroup J *. The second suggests that it is unlikely that the majority of this community comes from an ancient colonization of the island while for Lucotte it is unclear whether this high frequency is really an ancient relationship.
    These studies therefore suggest that the paternal lineage of North African Jews comes predominantly from the Middle East with a minority contribution of African lineages, probably Berbers-: end quote


    Y-DNA of Portuguese Jews[edit]

    A recent study by Inês Nogueiro et al. (July 2009) on the Jews of north-eastern Portugal (region of Trás-os-Montes) showed that their paternal lines consisted of 35.2% lineages more typical of Europe (R : 31.7%, I : 3.5%), and 64.8% lineages more typical of the Near East than Europe (E1b1b: 8.7%, G: 3.5%, J: 36.8%, T: 15.8%) and consequently, the Portuguese Jews of this region were genetically closer to other Jewish populations than to Portuguese non-Jews.[42]
    N E-M78 E-M81 E-M34 G I J1 J2 T R1a R1b1b1 R1b1b1b2
    57 3.5% 5.2% 0% 3.5% 3.5% 12.3% 24.5% 15.8% 1.8% 1.8% 28.1%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic...m_North_Africa

    I wasnt aware that the people you mentioned were ancestors of North African Jews. Thanks for info. So J would be the most common haplotype (including J2 I would imagine.) I believe that in antiquity at a particular point in time it would have been correct to term the people of the Asian med Canaanites all the way down from Syria Lebanon and Israel. This is when the long sea ventures were taking place. J2 is also found in significant numbers in South Europe (Balkans and south of Italy, including Malta at 22% J2 / 8% J1). So from what I can gather this makes me curious to know the haplogroup from my Mothers father, I very much believe it might turn to be a J1 or J2. (my next phase of the project to find out) Unfortunately the name is not in the dna project and I was not successful to have anyone tested. I think my father E-V13 puts me in the South europe / Balkan area. My Grandmother from my father side ydna was G2a (according to the dna project) and Grandmothers father from my mother side was British (presuming to be R1b) I asked my mother if his mum was Jewish and she said she didint think so. (so I dont know where I got that from) Her name was Jane Lane and could not related the surname to Jewish orgins). My great grand mothers father (from my mum side) was I2b (according to the dna project). More difficult to to get Mtdna, and all I know that my mother is H. So there you go that is already quite a mix ...........but one learns something new every day
    Believe me, I've seen Moroccans in Italy, and I just saw a big group of them in Orlando, Florida, and there is no way anyone could ever mistake Moroccan Jews for regular Moroccans, with the possible exception of a small group in the Rif, and even they, although lighter, have different facial features.

    One other point about why the Ashkenazim show up on Oracle results for the Maltese and the Sicilians. If you look at the Lazaridis et al three population table, you can see that both the Ashkenazim and the Maltese are 93% EEF. Without an IBD analysis, you can see why an algorithm might see them as very similar populations even though their population history and culture are very different. The Sicilians come in at 90% EEF, so it explains to some degree why the same thing sometimes happens to them and other far southern Italians. (I haven't seen a figure for the Cypriots, but I would imagine its about the same, although they might have gotten more ANE.) Most Spaniards don't have much lower scores, coming in at 81%, but I think their North African input causes the algorithm to choose high EEF/high Berber populations for their mix, so they often show North African in dodecad.

    Lazaridis et al 3 population figures.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    One other point about why the Ashkenazim show up on Oracle results for the Maltese and the Sicilians. If you look at the Lazaridis et al three population table, you can see that both the Ashkenazim and the Maltese are 93% EEF. Without an IBD analysis, you can see why an algorithm might see them as very similar populations even though their population history and culture are very different. The Sicilians come in at 90% EEF, so it explains to some degree why the same thing sometimes happens to them and other far southern Italians. (I haven't seen a figure for the Cypriots, but I would imagine its about the same, although they might have gotten more ANE.)

    Lazaridis et al 3 population figures.jpg
    I agree with you. Its all about percentages that happen to co relate in different geographical areas probably from the same haplotypes from an original source pre creation of monolithic religions. That might change a little once haplotypes will be split further downstream indicating maybe different routes. It also might not be so obvious. Even in regards to the EEF and ANE issues I believe that the sampling is far too tiny and very often based on just one or two samples which cannot be indicitave of large areas all over the EuroAsian continent.

    Just a side not on the pigmentation chart, its surprising that Genoa in the north scores less then Rome in the centre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    I agree with you. Its all about percentages that happen to co relate in different geographical areas probably from the same haplotypes from an original source pre creation of monolithic religions. That might change a little once haplotypes will be split further downstream indicating maybe different routes. It also might not be so obvious. Even in regards to the EEF and ANE issues I believe that the sampling is far too tiny and very often based on just one or two samples which cannot be indicitave of large areas all over the EuroAsian continent.

    Just a side not on the pigmentation chart, its surprising that Genoa in the north scores less then Rome in the centre.
    Sorry...that chart has nothing to do with your thread...my finger must have slipped when I was looking for the Lazaridis one. Yes, that one's an anomaly, although this is only one snp, and pigmentation traits are polygenic, and then I have a feeling some of these studies are done on college students, who can come from anywhere. I do think, though, that coastal western Liguria (and adjacent areas of France) are a little darker than eastern Liguria and even into some areas of Tuscany in my subjective opinion. It might be that eastern Liguria has mixed a lot with the Lunigiana and the Garfagnana, which have a few pockets with pretty "fair" people. Also, when I was investigating this whole issue I took a look at some very detailed maps of the general area in terms of solar reflectance and UV levels. It definitely gets higher levels than surrounding areas, which makes sense...that's why it has a Mediterranean climate and flora and fauna, and inland Liguria, Toscana, Piemonte, do not, and have more of a continental climate. Higher UV levels equals less selection for fair skin. I think that to some extent explains the situation in Spain as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Also, when I was investigating this whole issue I took a look at some very detailed maps of the general area in terms of solar reflectance and UV levels. It definitely gets higher levels than surrounding areas, which makes sense...that's why it has a Mediterranean climate and flora and fauna, and inland Liguria, Toscana, Piemonte, do not, and have more of a continental climate. Higher UV levels equals less selection for fair skin. I think that to some extent explains the situation in Spain as well.
    Totally agree, this cannot be more truer then the Sardenian case were I2 is at nearly 40% with J's, E's and T's so low, yet scoring lower Even then Sicily (with much higher J's), even in hair colour terms. If there ever needed any prove of UV natural selection visa vi protection from the environment this is a good one.



    Region I2 R1a R1b G2a J2 J1 E1b1b T
    Sardinia 39.5% 1% 18.5% 12% 9% 4% 9.5% 1.5%

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    Just received the the results of the "My origins", 96% Jewish diaspora (Ashkenazi) and 4% European (Scandinavian). I'm not surprised by the Jewish diaspora, but the Scandinavian certainly surprises me. Already on 23andme I received 0.3% Scandinavian on speculative, but I thought it was just noise. On standard however, I had about 4.9% broadly European, I suppose that's where the Scandinavian might be from. 4% I suppose equals roughly to a great great great grandfather. This certainly might be because I can only trace my father's line to his grandparents who came from Germany and Poland, but besides that I know nothing about them, I do know however that my biological father was very fair, while my mother has a Mediterranean complexion.

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    Congrats for the results Maleth, in your Eurogenes results you're basically a Western Sicilian of Eurogenes K13, which is consistent to the history and settlements from Southern Italy to Malta.

    Your

    Eurogenes


    Population
    North_Atlantic 22.64%
    Baltic 8.20%
    West_Med 22.04%
    West_Asian 10.18%
    East_Med 26.89%
    Red_Sea 4.79%
    South_Asian 1.33%
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 0.11%
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.55%
    Northeast_African 2.03%
    Sub-Saharan 1.24%
    West Sicilian

    North Atlantic - 21.14
    Baltic - 7.59
    West Med - 22.70
    West Asian - 10.85
    East Med - 28.65
    Red Sea - 5.07
    South Asian - 0.65
    East Asian - 0.52
    Siberian - 0.20
    Amerindian - 0.05
    Oceanian - 0.61
    North-East African - 0.99
    Sub-Saharan African - 0.96

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Just received the the results of the "My origins", 96% Jewish diaspora (Ashkenazi) and 4% European (Scandinavian). I'm not surprised by the Jewish diaspora, but the Scandinavian certainly surprises me. Already on 23andme I received 0.3% Scandinavian on speculative, but I thought it was just noise. On standard however, I had about 4.9% broadly European, I suppose that's where the Scandinavian might be from. 4% I suppose equals roughly to a great great great grandfather. This certainly might be because I can only trace my father's line to his grandparents who came from Germany and Poland, but besides that I know nothing about them, I do know however that my biological father was very fair, while my mother has a Mediterranean complexion.
    I think Ashkenazi in general has a European admixture anyway. I dont know the correct percentage but it could be up to 10% if not mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    Congrats for the results Maleth, in your Eurogenes results you're basically a Western Sicilian of Eurogenes K13, which is consistent to the history and settlements from Southern Italy to Malta.

    Your
    Thanks Hauteville, it does indeed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    I think Ashkenazi in general has a European admixture anyway. I dont know the correct percentage but it could be up to 10% if not mistaken.
    10% as in WHG?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    10% as in WHG?
    that would be y-dna, in fact it seems much higher in autosmal dna, probably mostly through MtDNA

    "Another recent study, also based on whole genomes, found that a mixture of European ancestries ranged from 30 percent to 60 percent among Ashkenazi and Sephardi populations, with Northern Italians showing the greatest proximity to Jews of any Europeans."

    ---------------------------

    ...... while most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Spaniards) showed >85% in the 'southern' group. Both Ashkenazi Jews as well as Sephardic Jews showed >85% membership in the "southern" group. Referring to the Jews clustering with southern Europeans, the authors state the results were "consistent with a later Mediterranean origin of these ethnic groups".[127]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Genetics

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    Results so far from Yseq :)

    Positive for 35.1 - Pf 1944 - Z5018 - S2979. Becoming more specific now, more to come.

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