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Thread: my recent family finder 'ethnic results'

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    Earl Maleth's Avatar
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    my recent family finder 'ethnic results'

    59% Southern European
    25% Asia Minor
    7% Eastern Middle east
    6% North African
    2% Finland and Northern Siberia


  2. #2
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    59% Southern European
    25% Asia Minor
    7% Eastern Middle east
    6% North African
    2% Finland and Northern Siberia

    Sorry, Maleth...here I go with my strong opinions again...FTDNA stinks as far as autosomal analysis is concerned.

    McDonald set it up, and so far as I know, the Ashkenazim are still one of the reference populations for Middle East, which mucks up all the results as far as I'm concerned. Even 23andme is better, and that's a mess too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sorry, Maleth...here I go with my strong opinions again...FTDNA stinks as far as autosomal analysis is concerned.

    McDonald set it up, and so far as I know, the Ashkenazim are still one of the reference populations for Middle East, which mucks up all the results as far as I'm concerned. Even 23andme is better, and that's a mess too.
    Thanks for your strong opinions.... much appreciated .

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    So, if I have my Y and mtDNA results from FTDNA, could I send the information to another company and get autosomal information from them, or am I stuck with FTDNA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Thanks for your strong opinions.... much appreciated .
    McDonald did the very old family finder with Ftdna , he has not been involved with them for over 2 years. The new one is created by ...IIRC ....Dr. David Mittelman, Chief Scientific Officer, at Family Tree DNA with Razib Khan and Rui Hu, the creators of MyOrigins


    Go join Gedmatch , it's free, once they give you a kit # it will be F followed by your ftdna kit#. Then you can use all the other dozen AuDna "companies" on the gedmatch site.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    McDonald did the very old family finder with Ftdna , he has not been involved with them for over 2 years. The new one is created by ...IIRC ....Dr. David Mittelman, Chief Scientific Officer, at Family Tree DNA with Razib Khan and Rui Hu, the creators of MyOrigins


    Go join Gedmatch , it's free, once they give you a kit # it will be F followed by your ftdna kit#. Then you can use all the other dozen AuDna "companies" on the gedmatch site.
    Have they published a "White Paper" explaining their methodology, as 23andme has done? If not that, perhaps they've published a list of the reference populations? I'd be interested in seeing whether they are still the same.

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    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Have they published a "White Paper" explaining their methodology, as 23andme has done? If not that, perhaps they've published a list of the reference populations? I'd be interested in seeing whether they are still the same.
    Should be a link in here

    http://dna-explained.com/2014/05/11/...ses-myorigins/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    So, if I have my Y and mtDNA results from FTDNA, could I send the information to another company and get autosomal information from them, or am I stuck with FTDNA?
    I think there are some companies that do allow uploading autosmomal info to others, but Im not sure who allows it and how that works yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Thanks for this link. I missed it. I will try to join Gedmatch (Gave it a look and it looks a little complex for me at least, but I will spend some more time checking it out as Im a little short of (free) time at present)

    They also do like coloured clouds over the mentioned regions.

    So 59% South European covers Portugal Spain Italy and Southern Balkans
    25% Asia Minor covers Turkey Azerbaijan Armenia and Georgia
    (these are all same latidue more or less)

    7% Easter Middle east covers Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Israel and Egypt
    6% North African covers Morroco
    2% Finland and North Siberia Covers what it states.

    I also note there 1% missing. Hmm what is it? Neandertal? it dosent say.
    Last edited by Maleth; 22-01-15 at 13:09.

  10. #10
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    @Sile, This is the list of reference populations being used.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ulations-used/

    There hasn't been any change. They are still including the Ashkenazim in the Middle East reference population, for example. (Well, I'm assuming it's the Ashkenazim, as that's what it was before. In the list it just says "Jewish", which can mean different things.) So, that will be off for southern Europeans.

    There are some other questionable groupings as well.

    @Maleth, The calculators based on the raw results from 23andme and FtDNA and others can be fun to play around with, but it has to be kept in mind that these "components" don't come with a date stamp, and they "hide" all sorts of more ancient components. Just as one example, in Dodecad, for example, northern Italians have a small percentage of SW Asian, which is the Levant or even slightly south of that. There was a lot of commentary to the effect that this must have arrived in Italy from the Levant post Neolithic. The only problem is that Oetzi already had more than that percentage of that component in 3300 BC. Does that mean that the amount present in Italians today, north to south, is all attributable to the Neolithic? Not necessarily, but certainly much of it probably does date to that time period, at least in a lot of areas. Do you see what I mean?

    Maleth, it isn't all that hard to use gedmatch. The hardest part is just downloading your genome from FTDNA onto your computer. Then you just upload it to gedmatch. Under the admixture/ancestry link you can find calculators by various bloggers. If you have problems, just holler. Most of us have done it.

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    Earl Maleth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    @Maleth, The calculators based on the raw results from 23andme and FtDNA and others can be fun to play around with, but it has to be kept in mind that these "components" don't come with a date stamp, and they "hide" all sorts of more ancient components. Just as one example, in Dodecad, for example, northern Italians have a small percentage of SW Asian, which is the Levant or even slightly south of that. There was a lot of commentary to the effect that this must have arrived in Italy from the Levant post Neolithic. The only problem is that Oetzi already had more than that percentage of that component in 3300 BC. Does that mean that the amount present in Italians today, north to south, is all attributable to the Neolithic? Not necessarily, but certainly much of it probably does date to that time period, at least in a lot of areas. Do you see what I mean?

    Maleth, it isn't all that hard to use gedmatch. The hardest part is just downloading your genome from FTDNA onto your computer. Then you just upload it to gedmatch. Under the admixture/ancestry link you can find calculators by various bloggers. If you have problems, just holler. Most of us have done it.
    Thanks for info Angela, and I understand your point. Another point is that my Great grand father was English from Surrey (Rixon) and there is not even a hint of that. I am not sure how this ethnicity works? Does this get through to all the family from both sides? and from when to when? I will try to see if I can find some easy to digest information about it.

    I had a quick try on Gedmatch signed up dowloaded raw data uploaded it and all im getting now is
    Kits marked with * have not been tokenized and have not completed batch processing.
    EDIT or DELETE your DNA resource profiles.

    I deleted and uploaded once more but got the same message. I think I will give it a break now and try and read and read and read (my poor eyes :)) to see if I can finally get it right

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    I found this very helpful and easy to follow. So after all, siblings can get different results since autosmal dna is not inherited at same percentages from grand parents. This can vary from one sibling to the other.........

    http://www.dnainheritance.kahikatea.net/autosomal.html

  13. #13
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Maleth:So 59% South European covers Portugal Spain Italy and Southern Balkans
    25% Asia Minor covers Turkey Azerbaijan Armenia and Georgia
    (these are all same latidue more or less)
    7% Easter Middle east covers Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Israel and Egypt
    6% North African covers Morroco
    2% Finland and North Siberia Covers what it states.
    This is where it gets a little confusing if we're going to be precise. Those aren't the reference populations for Southern European; those are the areas where it clusters. In the case of southern European, for example, as per their list of reference populations in their white paper, "Southern Europe" is
    Southern European
    Italian
    Sardinian
    Tuscan
    The "Italian" is doubtless the Bergamo sample.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ulations-used/

    So, in your case, 59% of your genome is related to the genomes of these three groups. For Middle Eastern, the reference groups are Druze and Palestinians, and probably the Bedouin, although the chart isn't totally clear. "Asia Minor" is definitely the Adygei (Circassians) and the Iranians. It's not clear from the chart if the Jews are used as references for the Middle East or for Asia Minor, and which "Jews" are used. It's my understanding that they are the Ashkenazim, and that they were used as part of the reference sample for Middle East. If that's wrong, perhaps people with more familiarity with FTDNA can correct the record here. At any rate, to use them either for aMiddle East or an Asia Minor reference sample shows, I think, a fundamental lack of appreciation for the ethnogenesis of the Ashkenaz people.

    It's also important to realize that these "clusters" don't come with a date stamp, although maybe we can make some educated guesses for an area, if not for an individual.

    When you do the Dodecad analysis, the Southern European may be roughly analogous to his "Mediterranean"; the Middle Eastern to his SW Asian; Asia Minor to West Asian.

    Another point is that my Great grand father was English from Surrey (Rixon) and there is not even a hint of that. I am not sure how this ethnicity works? Does this get through to all the family from both sides?
    You are the product of all your ancestors. I would have thought the English great grandfather might have lowered some of these more Mediterranean and "West Asian" components and might have provided some "West European". However, once you get to great grandparent level and beyond, you can start "losing" dna from certain ancestors. That's why I'm not much of a genealogy person even though I've expanded some of the trees done by relatives just to see if I could pick up different trails from other countries and regions. Even if I have an "illustrious" ancestor up the tree somewhere, I might share absolutely no dna with him. (In my case, the anarchist, anti-landlord milieu of my area has left enough influence on me that I would prefer not to share any dna with any of these robber barons, so it's all good. )

    I found this very helpful and easy to follow. So after all, siblings can get different results since autosmal dna is not inherited at same percentages from grand parents. This can vary from one sibling to the other.........
    It can vary by a few percent, but I've never seen it vary by more than that, at least not on 23andme. In fact, I've never seen more than a few percent variation even in a small village, whatever the difference in "appearance", for example.


    Did you get gedmatch to work? I've never seen that error message.

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    Earl Maleth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This is where it gets a little confusing if we're going to be precise. Those aren't the reference populations for Southern European; those are the areas where it clusters. In the case of southern European, for example, as per their list of reference populations in their white paper, "Southern Europe" is
    Southern European
    Italian
    Sardinian
    Tuscan
    The "Italian" is doubtless the Bergamo sample.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ulations-used/

    So, in your case, 59% of your genome is related to the genomes of these three groups. For Middle Eastern, the reference groups are Druze and Palestinians, and probably the Bedouin, although the chart isn't totally clear. "Asia Minor" is definitely the Adygei (Circassians) and the Iranians. It's not clear from the chart if the Jews are used as references for the Middle East or for Asia Minor, and which "Jews" are used. It's my understanding that they are the Ashkenazim, and that they were used as part of the reference sample for Middle East. If that's wrong, perhaps people with more familiarity with FTDNA can correct the record here. At any rate, to use them either for aMiddle East or an Asia Minor reference sample shows, I think, a fundamental lack of appreciation for the ethnogenesis of the Ashkenaz people.

    It's also important to realize that these "clusters" don't come with a date stamp, although maybe we can make some educated guesses for an area, if not for an individual.

    When you do the Dodecad analysis, the Southern European may be roughly analogous to his "Mediterranean"; the Middle Eastern to his SW Asian; Asia Minor to West Asian.
    Thanks for your patience to explain + link...much appreciated. So we know with which populations the comparisons are made. As an amateur, I find it a little strange however that example the Italian samples cover the whole South European region including Spain. (Its interesting just to learn on the methodologies involved)

    You are the product of all your ancestors. I would have thought the English great grandfather might have lowered some of these more Mediterranean and "West Asian" components and might have provided some "West European". However, once you get to great grandparent level and beyond, you can start "losing" dna from certain ancestors.
    I noticed that from the chart in the link I posted, also just learned today that my Great grand father (from England) mum was actually Jewish so I presume that would bring back the genome from that side back to the Med (if it works like that as its not always the case with Jewish Mtdna depending on the origins)

    That's why I'm not much of a genealogy person even though I've expanded some of the trees done by relatives just to see if I could pick up different trails from other countries and regions. Even if I have an "illustrious" ancestor up the tree somewhere, I might share absolutely no dna with him. (In my case, the anarchist, anti-landlord milieu of my area has left enough influence on me that I would prefer not to share any dna with any of these robber barons, so it's all good. )
    Haha this passed through my mind so many times its so true. When I read about the orgins of my surname of how it arrived here in 1200's (documented) with 'privileges' in very turbulant times, Im not too sure if in reality it can be romanticised as much some people do


    Did you get gedmatch to work? I've never seen that error message.
    Re Gedmatch I have now come across this in the help section...

    Before deleting any kits, please note the following:

    1. If you have recently uploaded a kit, and are not getting many matches, it may be that processing is not finished. It can take a couple of days for all processing to complete, depending on the current number of kits being processed. The column 'Date Batch Processed' will show 'zeros' if batch processing is not completed for this kit.

    so im going to give it a few days to see what happens. I feel I have done it right and not much more I can do. If nothing happens I will delete and relaod. I did not know what tokenized mean, and figured out from online dictionary that probably it needs to be sort of authenticated and processed from the side of GedMatch and it could also take a few days. (Just hoping of course) In the meantime I will listen to lots of Vivaldi and Lully ....... Im off to what 'Music are you listening to' now...........:)

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    Earl Maleth's Avatar
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    From GedMatch
    NOTICE: (January 26) Some kits uploaded since about Jan 19 were not properly processed. We will be reprocessing the affected kits.
    It may take about a week to get caught up. You do not need to do anything.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    From GedMatch
    NOTICE: (January 26) Some kits uploaded since about Jan 19 were not properly processed. We will be reprocessing the affected kits.
    It may take about a week to get caught up. You do not need to do anything.

    NOTICE: Batch processing is taking several days longer than usual. We appreciate your patience during this time.


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    My FTDNA "My Origins" results are supposed to be due in the next couple of days. As an Ashkenazi Jew I wonder what will my results be, although, assuming I take my 23andme results into account (95% Ashkenazi on standard) I suppose it'll be 100% Jewish diaspora.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    My FTDNA "My Origins" results are supposed to be due in the next couple of days. As an Ashkenazi Jew I wonder what will my results be, although, assuming I take my 23andme results into account (95% Ashkenazi on standard) I suppose it'll be 100% Jewish diaspora.
    Well done! Looking forward for you to share results with us. Things will be much more specific now.

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    Oh its working. But percentages are all different which one is correct? I have a bit of everyone I think.... or am I using the wrong programmes? They are too different anyways.

    Eurogenes


    Population
    North_Atlantic 22.64%
    Baltic 8.20%
    West_Med 22.04%
    West_Asian 10.18%
    East_Med 26.89%
    Red_Sea 4.79%
    South_Asian 1.33%
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 0.11%
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.55%
    Northeast_African 2.03%
    Sub-Saharan 1.24%


    Dodecad


    Population
    East_European 6.17%
    West_European 21.54%
    Mediterranean 33.60%
    Neo_African 0.83%
    West_Asian 19.74%
    South_Asian -
    Northeast_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian -
    East_African 1.41%
    Southwest_Asian 10.56%
    Northwest_African 5.69%
    Palaeo_African 0.45%


    Population


    Mediterranean Farmer37.16%
    Anatolian Farmer 23.56%
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer 20.32%
    Middle Eastern Herder 14.55%
    East African Pastoralist 3.11%
    East Asian Farmer 0.48%
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer 0.32%
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.28%
    Bantu Farmer 0.20%
    Last edited by Maleth; 05-02-15 at 23:17.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Oh its working. But percentages are all different which one is correct? I have a bit of everyone I think.... or am I using the wrong programmes? They are too different anyways.

    Eurogenes


    Population
    North_Atlantic 22.64%
    Baltic 8.20%
    West_Med 22.04%
    West_Asian 10.18%
    East_Med 26.89%
    Red_Sea 4.79%
    South_Asian 1.33%
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 0.11%
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.55%
    Northeast_African 2.03%
    Sub-Saharan 1.24%


    Dodecad


    Population
    East_European 6.17%
    West_European 21.54%
    Mediterranean 33.60%
    Neo_African 0.83%
    West_Asian 19.74%
    South_Asian -
    Northeast_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian -
    East_African 1.41%
    Southwest_Asian 10.56%
    Northwest_African 5.69%
    Palaeo_African 0.45%


    Population


    Mediterranean Farmer37.16%
    Anatolian Farmer 23.56%
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer 20.32%
    Middle Eastern Herder 14.55%
    East African Pastoralist 3.11%
    East Asian Farmer 0.48%
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer 0.32%
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.28%
    Bantu Farmer 0.20%
    Here are mine:



    Population
    Anatolian Farmer 28.09%
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer 17.52%
    Middle Eastern Herder 16.68%
    East Asian Farmer 0.34%
    South American Hunter Gatherer -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
    East African Pastoralist 0.36%
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.23%
    Mediterranean Farmer 35.72%
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
    Bantu Farmer 1.07%


    Population
    North_Atlantic 21.11%
    Baltic 5.45%
    West_Med 19.23%
    West_Asian 13.53%
    East_Med 33.95%
    Red_Sea 4.46%
    South_Asian -
    East_Asian 0.86%
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.33%
    Northeast_African 0.86%
    Sub-Saharan 0.22%




    Population
    East_European 4.97%
    West_European 19.50%
    Mediterranean 34.64%
    Neo_African 0.90%
    West_Asian 24.62%
    South_Asian -
    Northeast_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian 0.89%
    East_African 0.45%
    Southwest_Asian 11.60%
    Northwest_African 2.33%
    Palaeo_African 0.09%

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Here are mine:



    Population
    Anatolian Farmer 28.09%
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer 17.52%
    Middle Eastern Herder 16.68%
    East Asian Farmer 0.34%
    South American Hunter Gatherer -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
    East African Pastoralist 0.36%
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.23%
    Mediterranean Farmer 35.72%
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
    Bantu Farmer 1.07%


    Population
    North_Atlantic 21.11%
    Baltic 5.45%
    West_Med 19.23%
    West_Asian 13.53%
    East_Med 33.95%
    Red_Sea 4.46%
    South_Asian -
    East_Asian 0.86%
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.33%
    Northeast_African 0.86%
    Sub-Saharan 0.22%




    Population
    East_European 4.97%
    West_European 19.50%
    Mediterranean 34.64%
    Neo_African 0.90%
    West_Asian 24.62%
    South_Asian -
    Northeast_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian 0.89%
    East_African 0.45%
    Southwest_Asian 11.60%
    Northwest_African 2.33%
    Palaeo_African 0.09%
    the population percentages are so similar John. And you have Oceanic too...haha, I wonder were that came from. I even read its Papua New Gunea (!)....I wonder how that came to the equation and we both have it. Also the Bantu one.

    The fact that these calculator inventors cannot even agree on what the regions cover and what populations they base their results on, and the terminologies they decide to give. Example what is East Med? Why is Georgia and Azerbaijan considered Middle east? What is North Altantic? Isnt that an Ocean? and so on and so forth. It makes the whole process less appealing, and put it down to a little fun.

    The breakdowns I got from Ftdna are different from Eurogenes and different to dodecad. There is something that does not tally ..............

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    K1a9

    Ethnic group
    Ashkenazi Jewish
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    the population percentages are so similar John. And you have Oceanic too...haha, I wonder were that came from.
    Well I can't be certain, but I suppose Ashkenazim and Maltese might have a similar genetic history. Both are on the edge of Europe, in the gap between the former and the Near East, might just mean many things. As for the Oceanic admixture, well it might just be noise.

  23. #23
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,919

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Well I can't be certain, but I suppose Ashkenazim and Maltese might have a similar genetic history. Both are on the edge of Europe, in the gap between the former and the Near East, might just mean many things. As for the Oceanic admixture, well it might just be noise.
    Yes I followed those charts. Three groups seem to be closely connected that is Ashkenazi, Sicilian and Maltese. Did you run this John?

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 6.67
    2 Tuscan 7.85
    3 AJ 8.94
    4 GR 10.4
    5 North_Italian 11.82
    6 PT 17.17
    7 RO 18.45
    8 ES 19.07
    9 Serbian 20.1
    10 FR 22.53
    11 AT 24.42
    12 TR 25.04
    13 HU 25.45
    14 Moroccan 27.33
    15 IQ 28.2
    16 West_&_Central_German 28.33
    17 Samaritan 28.88
    18 Algerian 28.94
    19 Assyrian 29
    20 NL 29.47

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 73.2% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 26.8% PT @ 2.44
    2 75.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 24.6% ES @ 2.57
    3 71.6% North_Italian + 28.4% Samaritan @ 3.16
    4 84.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15.3% French_Basque @ 3.25
    5 64.1% PT + 35.9% Druze @ 3.29
    6 79.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 20.6% FR @ 3.33
    7 61.6% ES + 38.4% Druze @ 3.48
    8 66.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 33.5% North_Italian @ 3.51
    9 84.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15.6% Cornish @ 3.78
    10 80.7% Tuscan + 19.3% Samaritan @ 3.84
    11 86% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14% Scottish @ 3.95
    12 87.8% Tuscan + 12.2% Bedouin @ 3.95
    13 63.5% GR + 36.5% PT @ 3.97
    14 85.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14.3% Orcadian @ 4.03
    15 54.2% Tuscan + 45.8% AJ @ 4.05
    16 85% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15% English @ 4.05
    17 85.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14.1% IE @ 4.05
    18 80.6% Tuscan + 19.4% IQ @ 4.07
    19 73% North_Italian + 27% Druze @ 4.09
    20 56% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 44% Tuscan @ 4.12


    Do you have an idea what the percentages are and what the distance stand for (excuse my ignorance)

  24. #24
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
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    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Yes I followed those charts. Three groups seem to be closely connected that is Ashkenazi, Sicilian and Maltese. Did you run this John?

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 6.67
    2 Tuscan 7.85
    3 AJ 8.94
    4 GR 10.4
    5 North_Italian 11.82
    6 PT 17.17
    7 RO 18.45
    8 ES 19.07
    9 Serbian 20.1
    10 FR 22.53
    11 AT 24.42
    12 TR 25.04
    13 HU 25.45
    14 Moroccan 27.33
    15 IQ 28.2
    16 West_&_Central_German 28.33
    17 Samaritan 28.88
    18 Algerian 28.94
    19 Assyrian 29
    20 NL 29.47

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 73.2% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 26.8% PT @ 2.44
    2 75.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 24.6% ES @ 2.57
    3 71.6% North_Italian + 28.4% Samaritan @ 3.16
    4 84.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15.3% French_Basque @ 3.25
    5 64.1% PT + 35.9% Druze @ 3.29
    6 79.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 20.6% FR @ 3.33
    7 61.6% ES + 38.4% Druze @ 3.48
    8 66.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 33.5% North_Italian @ 3.51
    9 84.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15.6% Cornish @ 3.78
    10 80.7% Tuscan + 19.3% Samaritan @ 3.84
    11 86% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14% Scottish @ 3.95
    12 87.8% Tuscan + 12.2% Bedouin @ 3.95
    13 63.5% GR + 36.5% PT @ 3.97
    14 85.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14.3% Orcadian @ 4.03
    15 54.2% Tuscan + 45.8% AJ @ 4.05
    16 85% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15% English @ 4.05
    17 85.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 14.1% IE @ 4.05
    18 80.6% Tuscan + 19.4% IQ @ 4.07
    19 73% North_Italian + 27% Druze @ 4.09
    20 56% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 44% Tuscan @ 4.12


    Do you have an idea what the percentages are and what the distance stand for (excuse my ignorance)
    The lower the number, the closer the genetic similarity. A number of 6.67 is not particularly close; I've seen northern Europeans get numbers under 1, but they seem to be more homogenous. In your case, given the demographic history of Malta, it's not surprising that south Italians/Sicilians are your best match. In the case of Malta, you also have to factor in that there were other than Sicilian inputs, and, in your particular case, you have a recent northern European ancestor as well. I think the Portuguese/South Italian Sicilian coming in as the closest combo in Oracle is interesting. It may be because the Portuguese have some North African ancestry which is a match for what showed up for you in FTDNA? What it doesn't mean, of course, is that you have a Portuguese ancestor.

    Are these numbers from Dodecad 12b? I have found both through my own experience and that of other southern Europeans that Dodecad provides more accurate results, leading to closer genetic similarity numbers. Just run all of the calculators and see how they compare.

  25. #25
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,919

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The lower the number, the closer the genetic similarity. A number of 6.67 is not particularly close; I've seen northern Europeans get numbers under 1, but they seem to be more homogenous. In your case, given the demographic history of Malta, it's not surprising that south Italians/Sicilians are your best match. In the case of Malta, you also have to factor in that there were other than Sicilian inputs, and, in your particular case, you have a recent northern European ancestor as well. I think the Portuguese/South Italian Sicilian coming in as the closest combo in Oracle is interesting. It may be because the Portuguese have some North African ancestry which is a match for what showed up for you in FTDNA? What it doesn't mean, of course, is that you have a Portuguese ancestor.

    Are these numbers from Dodecad 12b? I have found both through my own experience and that of other southern Europeans that Dodecad provides more accurate results, leading to closer genetic similarity numbers. Just run all of the calculators and see how they compare.
    Many thanks (as usual) for your clear explanations Angela.

    This is the Dodecad run on 12b

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic_Med 28.76
    2 Caucasus 28.66
    3 North_European 16.86
    4 Southwest_Asian 10.52
    5 Northwest_African 7.06
    6 Gedrosia 5.85
    7 East_African 1.10


    Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 C_Italian @ 8.820288
    2 O_Italian @ 9.579761
    3 Sicilian @ 10.060098
    4 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 10.656211
    5 Greek @ 11.766392
    6 Ashkenazi @ 12.190835
    7 Tuscan @ 12.372108
    8 TSI30 @ 12.584416
    9 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 12.594862
    10 Morocco_Jews @ 15.396591
    11 Sephardic_Jews @ 15.583058
    12 N_Italian @ 17.280655
    13 North_Italian @ 18.959211
    14 Bulgarian @ 20.440601
    15 Bulgarians @ 20.870832
    16 Romanians @ 21.571959
    17 Canarias @ 26.468821
    18 Baleares @ 26.780981
    19 Cypriots @ 26.962145
    20 Turkish @ 27.140495

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Morocco_Jews +50% O_Italian @ 5.587129


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Morocco_Jews +25% N_Italian +25% Romanians @ 3.070553


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Ashkenazy_Jews + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.083963
    2 German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + Sicilian @ 2.104380
    3 Canarias + Druze + Hungarians + Morocco_Jews @ 2.111102
    4 Ashkenazy_Jews + Dutch + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.223024
    5 Canarias + Lebanese + Romanians + Sicilian @ 2.322811
    6 Ashkenazi + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.327231
    7 Ashkenazy_Jews + German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.414094
    8 German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2.430136
    9 Bulgarian + Canarias + Lebanese + Sicilian @ 2.486896
    10 Ashkenazi + Dutch + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.488361
    11 Ashkenazi + German + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.521348
    12 Bulgarians + Canarias + Lebanese + Sicilian @ 2.540962
    13 Ashkenazy_Jews + CEU30 + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.577677
    14 Ashkenazy_Jews + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.614861
    15 Ashkenazy_Jews + Dutch + Morocco_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.616382
    16 Canarias + Druze + Hungarians + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.639705
    17 Ashkenazy_Jews + English + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.648830
    18 Ashkenazi + Mixed_Germanic + Morocco_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.661152
    19 Ashkenazy_Jews + Kent + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 2.677732
    20 Canarias + Lebanese + Romanians + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2.689441

    It gets a little complex as it goes in 4 population mixes. Lots of Morroco Jews and Ashkenazy there (!). I just read their history and some of them were expelled from Spain to Morroco. There is a history in Malta that local Jews converted to Catholicism to avoid persecution in 1200's, so it can make some historical sense. On the other hand its not easy to interpret that with the first chart of population percentages (hmm bit complicated)

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