Recognizing ethnicity by the nose.

Or elsewhere in Western Eurasia...

I’ve been told a few times, ... here is the closest Roman I resemble.

... I’m not gonna say who he is, ... :grin:

UOopAKW.jpg
 
The "true" Greek nose which you see in ancient Greek statues was almost always long and straight, but also had an unbroken line from forehead to tip.

Antinous, the lover of Hadrian, was considered the most beautiful man of his time, and had a perfect example of it.
1200px-Antinous_Mondragone_Louvre_Ma1205_n3.jpg

1200px-Bust_of_Antinous_(3)._2nd_cent._A.D.jpg

I have no idea whether that nose was as ubiquitous in real life as it was in art or if it was an idealized, artistic choice.

In realistic ancient Roman statuary, where, in other words, they were doing realistic "portraits" in stone of real people you occasionally see the "Greek" nose, but with a dip at the eyes, not a straight line.

The Empress Vibia Sabina had it.
170px-Vibia_Sabina_(Villa_Adriana)_01.jpg


It's sort of like this, but with a definite dip at the eyes, not that straight line. This is a Greek statue of the Goddess Flora, btw.
d2e72daf3e4ab109960e4da6a7e15e93.jpg



I have a version of it. So does Richard Armitage in some of his profile pictures. However, full face Armitage does seem to have that "bump" or "thickening" in the upper third of his nose which you see in so many of the Roman busts.

tumblr_lzckvd75xx1r6hsufo1_500.jpg


Ed. The clay model seems to be of that modified "Greek" type.

That, for me, is the distinctive characteristic of ancient Roman noses: most are long, some a bit shorter, in some the tip bends down, in others it doesn't, but in most of the busts the nose has a distinctive bump in the upper part.

I hate to use something undoubtedly put together by racists, and thus highly exaggerated, but it does show some of the differences. The "Ancient Roman" nose, even when it curves, is not usually a Semitic nose.
ec04d922a85373bc2c929011faa6fc01.jpg


Caesar in profile...Not all busts show the bump.
julius-caesar_2571737b.jpg


Cicero in profile
5217-cicero-in-profile.jpg



I agree with Jovialis. I think it came with CHG. After all, we're talking mainly about Republican and early Empire Rome.


As for "Jessica", she could be Italian or half Italian, or she might not. There are some faces that I almost always recognize as Italian. However, at the extremes of Italy there is overlap with neighboring areas. There's also overlap between some Italians and some Spaniards.

My favorite example is the skier Giuliano Razzano from the Apennines near my father's villages. He doesn't look out of place in those mountains, but he also wouldn't look out of place much further north.

Giuliano_Razzoli_Schladming_2010.jpg
 
The "true" Greek nose which you see in ancient Greek statues was almost always long and straight, but also had an unbroken line from forehead to tip.

Antinous, the lover of Hadrian, was considered the most beautiful man of his time, and had a perfect example of it.
1200px-Antinous_Mondragone_Louvre_Ma1205_n3.jpg

1200px-Bust_of_Antinous_(3)._2nd_cent._A.D.jpg

I have no idea whether that nose was as ubiquitous in real life as it was in art or if it was an idealized, artistic choice.

In realistic ancient Roman statuary, where, in other words, they were doing realistic "portraits" in stone of real people you occasionally see the "Greek" nose, but with a dip at the eyes, not a straight line.

The Empress Vibia Sabina had it.
170px-Vibia_Sabina_(Villa_Adriana)_01.jpg


It's sort of like this, but with a definite dip at the eyes, not that straight line. This is a Greek statue of the Goddess Flora, btw.
d2e72daf3e4ab109960e4da6a7e15e93.jpg



I have a version of it. So does Richard Armitage in some of his profile pictures. However, full face Armitage does seem to have that "bump" or "thickening" in the upper third of his nose which you see in so many of the Roman busts.

tumblr_lzckvd75xx1r6hsufo1_500.jpg


The clay model seems to be of that type.

That, for me, is the distinctive characteristic of ancient Roman noses: most are long, some a bit shorter, in some the tip bends down, in others it doesn't, but in most of the busts the nose has a distinctive bump in the upper part.

I hate to use something undoubtedly put together by racists, and thus highly exaggerated, but it does show some of the differences. The "Ancient Roman" nose, even when it curves, is not usually a Semitic nose.
ec04d922a85373bc2c929011faa6fc01.jpg


Caesar in profile...Not all busts show the bump.
julius-caesar_2571737b.jpg


Cicero in profile
5217-cicero-in-profile.jpg



I agree with Jovialis. I think it came with CHG. After all, we're talking mainly about Republican and early Empire Rome.


As for "Jessica", she could be Italian or half Italian, or she might not. There are some faces that I almost always recognize as Italian. However, at the extremes of Italy there is overlap with neighboring areas. There's also overlap between some Italians and some Spaniards.

My favorite example is the skier Giuliano Razzano from the Apennines near my father's villages. He doesn't look out of place in those mountains, but he also wouldn't look out of place much further north.

Giuliano_Razzoli_Schladming_2010.jpg

Thank you for the reply Angela.

Love the nose on that Goddesses statue. So aesthetic.
If I got this correct the Roman nose has a more pronounced bump at the bridge accompanied with wideness.
The Grecian one is either straight as you say, or in my opinion has a concave arch to it, albeit very symmetrical, not bulging.
From the images you posted Antinous and Ceasar definitively has some similarity. Like Antinous nose is not literally straight, it has an arch, albeit not a bump, while Ceasars has a more pronounceable concave arch. The other similarity is the thinness of the nose. In the Roman noses from the other threads busts the bump at the dorsum is thicker, wide so to say.


This reminds me of a few depictions in art of other famous people from history.

Compare
1200px-Antinous_Mondragone_Louvre_Ma1205_n3.jpg


Alexander the Great

160415-oconnor-greek-art-tease_crwhgp


9J1QuVR

q6xtmD5.jpg


Skanderbeg

48675082478_bf76da4857_b.jpg


c87f374d2652957b68e16a3fedc3c328.jpg
 
the one that looks most similar to mine is probably Daniel Ricciardos
993a2e7f577340cfbe54778d27b96c52.jpg


it doesn't go as straight down as his but it's a bit more pointy at the tip.
 
I think you mean convex, not concave.

Not all the Roman busts show convex curves. Some have the bump but not really a convex curve throughout the nose.

Those noses do indeed show up in other parts of Europe.

Liam Neeson. Looks a lot like a Cicero nose to me, or like Skanderbeg's. :)
iyjovf7gqoalq3ljgn6d.jpeg


The great English poet William Wordsworth:
william-wordsworth.jpg


It's a bit like Caesar's nose, I think.

I wonder if Richard Armitage has a connection to the same part of England.

Byron
cecil-watson-quinnell-lord-byron-1788-1824-english-poet_a-L-9972758-8880726.jpg


It's actually called the "Byronic" profile. He was called mad, bad, and dangerous to know by one of his many lovers, as well as being a genius as a poet, of course. :)

The great American Thomas Paine:
Thomas-Paine.jpg


The great Duke de Guise of Alsace Lorraine.
d5404677a.jpg


Most of the men of the family seem to have had it, and it found its way into Mary Queen of Scots probably through her Guise mother.
mary-queen-of-scots.jpg


Henry Tudor, first Tudor King of England. He was half Welsh and and half Beaufort (Dukes descended from John of Gaunt). From the pictures of his mother maybe it came through the Beauforts, who certainly didn't have short, upturned noses, but it's impossible to know.
henry-vii-of-england-4.jpg


effigy.jpg


It made its way into the great Elizabeth I as well.
How-Did-Queen-Elizabeth-the-First-Die.jpg


For whatever reason, these noses seem to show up a lot in the upper classes in the British Isles. Maybe it's a legacy of the Norman French input?
 
the one that looks most similar to mine is probably Daniel Ricciardos
993a2e7f577340cfbe54778d27b96c52.jpg


it doesn't go as straight down as his but it's a bit more pointy at the tip.


I think that shape is most obvious when you bite your upper lip with your bottom teeth(ie this picture). Or when doing intensive physical exercise.

I assume you are from a colder region correct?
Did you happen to do physical activity outdoors during winter, or when it was cold as a youngster (ie pre 20 years old, when I've read the morphology of the nose stops changing).

Because based on countless articles I have read nose shape is selected to fit the climate, and it is proportionally related to the maxillary sinus size.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-changed-shape-your-nose-180962567/
How Climate Helped Shape Your Nose

New research shows how the width of our nasal passages is literally shaped by the air we breathe

" The reasons Shriver suspects this occurs are similar to those of Woodruff's: In the warm, humid climates where humans first evolved, a wide nose would allow more air to be inhaled with less effort. But as anyone who gets frequent nosebleeds and coughs in the winter could attest, colder, drier air is much more irritating to the membranes of the nose and throat. A more narrow nose will cause more "turbulence" as air is inhaled, mixing the air together inside the nostrils to help warm it like a convection oven, Shriver says."



https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ar.22655
The Morphological Interaction Between the Nasal Cavity and Maxillary Sinuses in Living Humans


"Our results show that there is a positive relationship between nasal cavity and maxillary sinus volume, indicating that the maxillary sinuses do not accommodate variation in nasal cavity size. However, maxillary sinus volume is significantly correlated with variation in relative internal nasal breadth. Thus, the maxillary sinuses appear to be important for accommodating nasal cavity shape rather than size."


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...y, the human,climate where humans have lived.

Nose's unheralded neighbor: Maxillary sinuses allow noses to change shapes

"The team found that maxillary sinuses in the European-derived participants were, on average, 36 percent larger than those in African-origin participants, in faces of roughly the same size. The reason: Europeans, with their narrower noses, have more room for maxillary sinuses."

 
The "true" Greek nose which you see in ancient Greek statues was almost always long and straight, but also had an unbroken line from forehead to tip.

Antinous, the lover of Hadrian, was considered the most beautiful man of his time, and had a perfect example of it.
1200px-Antinous_Mondragone_Louvre_Ma1205_n3.jpg

1200px-Bust_of_Antinous_(3)._2nd_cent._A.D.jpg

I have no idea whether that nose was as ubiquitous in real life as it was in art or if it was an idealized, artistic choice.

In realistic ancient Roman statuary, where, in other words, they were doing realistic "portraits" in stone of real people you occasionally see the "Greek" nose, but with a dip at the eyes, not a straight line.

The Empress Vibia Sabina had it.
170px-Vibia_Sabina_(Villa_Adriana)_01.jpg


It's sort of like this, but with a definite dip at the eyes, not that straight line. This is a Greek statue of the Goddess Flora, btw.


I have a version of it. So does Richard Armitage in some of his profile pictures. However, full face Armitage does seem to have that "bump" or "thickening" in the upper third of his nose which you see in so many of the Roman busts.



Ed. The clay model seems to be of that modified "Greek" type.

That, for me, is the distinctive characteristic of ancient Roman noses: most are long, some a bit shorter, in some the tip bends down, in others it doesn't, but in most of the busts the nose has a distinctive bump in the upper part.

I hate to use something undoubtedly put together by racists, and thus highly exaggerated, but it does show some of the differences. The "Ancient Roman" nose, even when it curves, is not usually a Semitic nose.
ec04d922a85373bc2c929011faa6fc01.jpg


Caesar in profile...Not all busts show the bump.
julius-caesar_2571737b.jpg


Cicero in profile
5217-cicero-in-profile.jpg



I agree with Jovialis. I think it came with CHG. After all, we're talking mainly about Republican and early Empire Rome.


As for "Jessica", she could be Italian or half Italian, or she might not. There are some faces that I almost always recognize as Italian. However, at the extremes of Italy there is overlap with neighboring areas. There's also overlap between some Italians and some Spaniards.

My favorite example is the skier Giuliano Razzano from the Apennines near my father's villages. He doesn't look out of place in those mountains, but he also wouldn't look out of place much further north.

Do you think mine falls within the Greek category? I think so, because I got my nose entirely from my Italian side. (#238)

PS, the parmigiano guy looks German xD
 
I’ve been told a few times, ... here is the closest Roman I resemble.

... I’m not gonna say who he is, ... :grin:

UOopAKW.jpg

You removed the "hint", i.e. you're not proud of it? :)

That's a shorter list. Running my mind's eye over the list of "baddies", maybe an atypical bust of Caligula, or a younger Commodus, or Honorius?
 
Looks a bit similar to Augusto?

What is your opinion on my nose? :cool-v: (post 238)

you kind of resemble a friend of mine from Carmiano (LE) Italy,

... that isn’t Augustus, ...
 
You removed the "hint", i.e. you're not proud of it? :)

That's a shorter list. Running my mind's eye over the list of "baddies", maybe an atypical bust of Caligula, or a younger Commodus, or Honorius?

... Brutus, sadly, lol

338px-Portrait_Brutus_Massimo.jpg


UOopAKW.jpg
 
Do you agree I fall within the Greek category?
Aah, he looks a bit like him though.

if we go by the Reference Image on post #242 (Angela), then yes, though the Modern Greeks I Interact with have a variety of features / phenotypes, ...

the Reference Image features exaggerated Stereotypes, it doesn’t mean that all in Antiquity ought to look like that.

ec04d922a85373bc2c929011faa6fc01.jpg
 
if we go by the Reference Image on post #242 (Angela), then yes, though the Modern Greeks I Interact with have a variety of features / phenotypes, ...

the Reference Image features exaggerated Stereotypes, it doesn’t mean that all in Antiquity ought to look like that.

ec04d922a85373bc2c929011faa6fc01.jpg

We're closer to ancient Greeks anyways, so it'd make sense.
 
... Brutus, sadly, lol

338px-Portrait_Brutus_Massimo.jpg


UOopAKW.jpg

Ah...handsome, but possibly a parricide, at least the most disloyal of friends. Even if his Republican sympathies were sincere, not good.
 



I think that shape is most obvious when you bite your upper lip with your bottom teeth(ie this picture). Or when doing intensive physical exercise.

I assume you are from a colder region correct?
Did you happen to do physical activity outdoors during winter, or when it was cold as a youngster (ie pre 20 years old, when I've read the morphology of the nose stops changing).

Because based on countless articles I have read nose shape is selected to fit the climate, and it is proportionally related to the maxillary sinus size.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-changed-shape-your-nose-180962567/
How Climate Helped Shape Your Nose

New research shows how the width of our nasal passages is literally shaped by the air we breathe

" The reasons Shriver suspects this occurs are similar to those of Woodruff's: In the warm, humid climates where humans first evolved, a wide nose would allow more air to be inhaled with less effort. But as anyone who gets frequent nosebleeds and coughs in the winter could attest, colder, drier air is much more irritating to the membranes of the nose and throat. A more narrow nose will cause more "turbulence" as air is inhaled, mixing the air together inside the nostrils to help warm it like a convection oven, Shriver says."



https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ar.22655
The Morphological Interaction Between the Nasal Cavity and Maxillary Sinuses in Living Humans


"Our results show that there is a positive relationship between nasal cavity and maxillary sinus volume, indicating that the maxillary sinuses do not accommodate variation in nasal cavity size. However, maxillary sinus volume is significantly correlated with variation in relative internal nasal breadth. Thus, the maxillary sinuses appear to be important for accommodating nasal cavity shape rather than size."


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...y, the human,climate where humans have lived.

Nose's unheralded neighbor: Maxillary sinuses allow noses to change shapes

"The team found that maxillary sinuses in the European-derived participants were, on average, 36 percent larger than those in African-origin participants, in faces of roughly the same size. The reason: Europeans, with their narrower noses, have more room for maxillary sinuses."


i don't think climate can noticeably affect your nose shape. over many generations through selection certainly but not during your childhood. Ricciardo grew up in Australia, i doubt it was that cold there. and when we look at the people from colder regions like in siberia or north eastern europe then it seems like smaller noses are better suited for cold climates.
in the previous picture he is biting his lower lip not the upper one. probably didn't affect the shape of his nose that much.
Daniel-Ricciardo-web2017-Bild2.jpg
 
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Mine.

116797208_294536218658334_7936420175297044931_n.jpg


Classify me and my nose?

Edit: No one? :(
 
Last edited:

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