What language group did Europeans speak in the Neolithic? Vasconic languages? Uralic?

[gyms]

@gyms So, what was the lanaguge of Hungarians in 10th century? Here it says:

"The oldest rune-shaped inscription in Hungary dates from the 9th and 10th centuries CE, but these earliest texts are poorly understood and maybe even not in the Hungarian language but perhaps in an unidentified Turkic dialect."

http://www.ancientscripts.com/old_hungarian.html

Epigraphic evidence for the use of the Old Hungarian script in medieval Hungary dates to the 10th century, for example, from Homokmégy^[11] The latter inscription was found on a fragment of a quiver made of bone. Although there have been several attempts to interpret it, the meaning of it is still unclear.
In 1000, with the coronation of Stephen I of Hungary, Hungary (previously an alliance of mostly nomadic tribes) became a Kingdom. The Latin alphabet was adopted as official script, however Old Hungarian continued to be used in the vernacular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Hungarian_alphabet

The hungarian conquerors where supposedly bilingual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_conquest_of_the_Carpathian_Basin

http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2007/07/18/who-were-the-ancient-hungarian/

 

[MOESAN]

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Yes,I often wondered if Uralic was once part of a larger language group.It was probably an Eastern dialect and the only languagegroup/dialectic of a larger language group in Europe; that was lostafter the Neolithic; during the Indo-European invasion.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Mysteriesof languages, such as this one; would also explain why so many EastAsians (Mongoloids) look the same but speak different languagegroups. (i.e. Yakuts speaking Turkic, Koreans being a languageisolate; Japanese speaking Japonic, Chinese speaking Sino-Tibetan -all part of the hypothetical unconfirmed Altaic language group.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ijust had a crazy idea that popped in my head one day; and I seemed tohave come to a realization that Neolithic Europeans may have beenUralic or pre-Uralic speakers. It would explain why most Uralicpeoples seem to share an extremely high abundance of Neolithic andMesolithic Y-DNA rather than Bronze Age Y-DNA.The [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Mordvins/Mordovian[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]peoplesof Southern Russia seem to carry a high frequency of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif];despite being [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]nowherenear Scandinavia[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif].If DNA evidence and theory is correct; this couldn't have comefrom [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Indo-Europeans! [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Itmust mean that it originated in Scandinavia; or possiblythe [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Mordovians [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]migratedfrom there?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Sohow did [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I1 [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]reachthe [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Mordovians[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]?It couldn't have come from Russians or Slavic peoples; as most oftheir frequencies are lower.

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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]myanswer (MOESAN)[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Isuppose frontiers were very va[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]gueat the different old ethnies mergins, what doesn't exclude theircenters of gravity were well separated - s[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]o,possible exchanges of DNA, even Y-DNA (+ some words!) -[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]concerningthe topic, I red in a "surface" russian abstract (Alex.Shtrunov) that Y-I1 AND Y-I2a2 (ex I2b) were found at higher levelsin N-E Russia than elsewhere in Russia : for Y-I1 :territories of Kranoyarsk-Arkhangelsk (12,1%, 14,2%) Vologda (11,6%),Unza, Kostroma (11,5%) Ryazan (14,0%) Tatarstan (13,0%),Starodnayga-Moscow (12,0%) Penza (12,0%) - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Shtruovcites the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif](H)ermanaricempire hypothesis : Amari Gothic[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]clan supposed to have submitted : Golthescythia, Thiudos,Inaunxis, Vasinabroncae, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Merens[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif],[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Mordens[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif],Imniscaris, Rogas, Tadzans, Athaul, Navego, Bubegenae and Cordaetribes, whre we could recognize Mordvins and Mari, at least... butShtrunov [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]discards[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]this hypothesis, too vaste territories for him to have been deeplypopulated by Goths. Contrary to Maciamo opinion... [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Theauthor linked these Haplos Y to a West to East move from maglemoseand other late Mesolithic 'Ahrensbergian) cultures along SouthernBaltic lands -[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]hewrote they had at first a 'cromanoid' broad faced type beforeencounter leptodolichomorphic men there, in N and N-C Russia (he doesnot give any precision : ? future 'nordic' not to beconfused with 'eurafrican types' from East caspian ???no answer fornow) - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]thatbefore the arrival of Saami [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif](beforetoday Finns) an unkown [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]non-finnic[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]languagewas spoken in Finland, which left traces more in lexiconthan inmorphology or syntax - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ired elsewhere (I cannot find my sources again) there were 2substrata, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]non-finnic,[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]inlappish: one unknown but showing some possible common traits withbasque, one I-Ean, on the satem way... we know Saami didn'treached their today dwellings too early in History - but herethe way to Lappland could be a western one, not an eastern one...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]allthat to say Finnic-ugric languages DOES NOT SEEM SO OLD IN EUROPE? ATLEAST IN CENTRAL NORTH EUROPE -[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]thatcould put basque or proto-basque language present in N-Europe for along time, and linked to Y-I (*) in some way - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]analternative hypothesis could be: this proto-basque language, even ifpassed in far North-East at the Neolithic times, was not itself anative language of the Mesolithic North, only a more spred languageof Neolithic agricultors from South replacing the smotted languagesof H-Gs -[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2possibilities here again: if continental and southern by origin,itcould explain if true some proper names for metals (introduced after,but through S-E Europe) and agriculture - BUT the DNA making ofBasques, their occidental atlantic sort of 'mediterranian', theirhigh enough level of WHG push me to think they were more martitimethan continental, and this language could have been passed to them bya maritime megalithic culture well separated from other Neolithicpeople (here I "see" the phantom or spectre of the 'LongBarrows' but have these last people been in long enough contact withpost Maglemose (Ertebolle?) people to pass language to them?(5000/3950 BC >< supposed begin 3500?) - the dates can be aproblem here, spite the introgression of megalitihc people in basquecountry distinct from predecessors is proved - the problem is linkingthem to the british and northern Europe Long Barrows... and linkingLong Barrows to metals : but the « Neolothic »naming is confusing : the last Neolithic men from S-E knewmetals if they were not rich of - the 'sumerian' physical tendanciesof some Long Barrows bearers could [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]naively[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]explain the 'gedrosia' presence among Celts, N-Germans and evenBasques but its absence in S-E Europe points to a later presence of'gedrosia' among West Asians, and the allover distribution of it fitsbetter a northern road for 'gedrosia' - OR we have to imagine the'westasian' in S-E Europe is an other set of Near-Easterner comethere at Neolithical times, not later, and not with I-Eans nor anyother kind of metallurgists for the most??? uneasy to swallow atfirst sight - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]whatI think is that the HGs languages, spite they covered long distancessometimes, were very spotted, subdialectal and rapidlynon-between-understandable (quick endogamic evolution of language) -mobility helps homogeneity of language when the density is highenough, but when it is so low? -plus : mobility of HGs was nolonger so wide - so surely the pre-I-E languages were for the mostNeolithic languages (more than one I think: proto-semito-hamitic forsomeones, proto-"tyrrhenian" for others, as said, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif](proto)-basquestaying a question[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]RESUME[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Basquehalf-mesolithic-half neolithic in North Europe ? How explainY-R1b ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]EITHERIt had « long-barrows »like ancestors (part) who send him'gedrosia' and 'metals and agriculture words ? (because lastmegalithers were already in contact with the world of metals(Near-East) How explain Y-R1b ? How explain 'gedrosia' soearly ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]ORBasques were North, largely spred and in contact with Y-R1b bearers(at the mergins, without loose their proper language) with a bit ofnorthern 'gedrosia'/ANE (less than I-Eans) they were pushed by I-Eansto West, and took their metals / farming worlds from megalithers LBsor later BBs[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]theirlinks with North all the way are remarkable compared to othersoutherners: autosomes and mtH1/H3 but the direction of move isuncertain – Southwest>Northeast after LGM (the most sensible) orthe opposite at Late Neolithic OR BOTH ??? Very unsatisfactoryguesses ![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]ALLTHE WAY FINNIC-UGRIC languages SEEM ABSENT of the most OF EUROPEBEFORE -3000 ...

JUST A SHIVERING OPINION[/FONT]

 

[Twilight]

I think that pre-Neolithic Europe spoke some language Isolate, not related to today's languages. Neolithic Europe spoke Afro-Asiatic, related to proto-proto-semitic. The East Europe and North West Asia could speak proto-Indo-European during Neolithic. I would imagine that Uralic language was spoken around Urals Mountains at that time.

Resurrecting this thread because this hypothesis is interesting and I wanted to test this out.

Both Basque and Etruscan are the two language isolates in Europe. How related is Proto-Afroasiatic to Basque or Etruscan languages?

I found a Proto-Afro-Asiatic dictionary
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/re...morpho=0&basename=\data\semham\afaset&first=1


Etruscan Dictionary
http://www.etruskisch.de/pgs/vc.htm


Proto-Basque Dictionary
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Basque_language#Vocabulary