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Thread: Massive migration from the steppe - extended discussion

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    And here I agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post


    But Karelian R1a1 was found to be M17 (M417) - a direct ancestor of R1a1a, which is 4800 - 6800 years old.

    In other words, in Karelia 7000 - 7500 years ago lived the man who is ancestor of 99% of modern people who are R1a.

    You are among the remaining 1% who are not his descendants. And this 1% were not Indo-Europeans, but Paleolithic survivors.
    OMG, where is the proof that all direct descendants of R1a1a are from that Karelian fella and not from another M17 (M417) from West Asia? Maybe all modern S224 folks are descendants from a M17 (M417) from West Asia and NOT Karelia at all ! If you have trouble to understand this simple FATC I'm done with you. And my 'R1a*' = Iranic, because my ancestors were ALL Iranic (Medes) and it was part of them too. So, I've got my R1a* from Iranic people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Native people of Europe were not Indo-European. Saami in Northern Europe are native people of that region and they’re very similar to Finnic people. They are not Indo-European, nor are people in Finland Indo-Europeans. N1c1and I haplogroups are very frequent in that area and not in other parts of the world. That mean that those haplogroups are just native to those areas. Yamnaya was for a huge part West Asian. Yamnaya folks were actually West Asians who mixed with the A hunter-gatherer in the Steppes. We all know right not that R1b entered Europe from West Asia. I’m sure that the same happened with R1a...
    Indo Europeans are just as native to Europe was Finno-Urgics. They have the same basic genetic makeup as IE speaking north Europeans. They have significant west Asian ancestry like all Europeans. You're calling them "native" simply because they don't speak an IE language which isn't good evidence.

    Y DNA I1 is popular in Norse. Just because Finno-Urgics live next to Norse doesn't mean they have alot of I1, because they don't. Autosomally speaking(Y DNA doesn't tell total ancestry) Lithuanians are more Mesolithic-derived than Saami.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Fire Haired, you write that ”autosomally Mesolithic Karelians are very different from modern ones, they aren't the same people. N1c is probably a recent arrival in northeast Europe. There was no obvious east Asian ancestry in both Mesolithic Russians, but modern Finno-Urgics heavy in N1c do have obvious east Asian ancestry.”
    When I look at the chart Shaikort posted http://s28.postimg.org/rqa2facbf/admixt.jpg I would not say that Mesolithic Karelians are so very different from modern Finns. Even that East Asian part seems to be of equal size.
    Modern Finno-Urgics have mostly Mesolithic north and east Euro ancestry similar to EHG, but they are still very different. Just like someone who is 60% Swedish and 40% Iraqi is very different from someone who is 100% Swedish.

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    Armenian Model by Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich Ivanov & Tamaz V. Gamkrelidze
    This does not work.

    Read Underhill 2014. R1a was a very small population until M417 emerged.

    Only since the emergence of M417 we observe a demographic boom.

    This is pretty much in agreement with ancestors of M417 being hunters (= not numerous).

    But Underhill back in 2014 did not know that ancestors of M417 lived in Karelia. Now in 2015 we know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Indo Europeans are just as native to Europe was Finno-Urgics. They have the same basic genetic makeup as IE speaking north Europeans. They have significant west Asian ancestry like all Europeans. You're calling them "native" simply because they don't speak an IE language which isn't good evidence.

    Y DNA I1 is popular in Norse. Just because Finno-Urgics live next to Norse doesn't mean they have alot of I1, because they don't. Autosomally speaking(Y DNA doesn't tell total ancestry) Lithuanians are more Mesolithic-derived than Saami.
    No, native European folks never spoke an Indo-European language. Most Indo-European speakers of EUROPE got Indo-Europized by folks from Yamnaya. People of Yamnaya were NOT really native to Europe. Basque, Saami and Finnic people are the most native people of Europe and they don't speak an Indo-European language...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    This does not work.

    Read Underhill 2014. R1a was a very small population until M417 emerged.

    Only since the emergence of M417 we observe a demographic boom.

    This is pretty much in agreement with ancestors of M417 being hunters (= not numerous).

    But Underhill back in 2014 did not know that ancestors of M417 lived in Karelia. Now in 2015 we know it.
    It actually works very well, because R1b entered Yamnaya from West Asia! Folks in Yamnaya were for a huge part West Asian (Caucaso-Gedrosian). Even the writers of the latest paper did admit that!

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    It didn't say that in the paper.
    It did. Check pages 44 and 47, for example.

    Armenian Model by Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich Ivanov & Tamaz V. Gamkrelidze
    Read Underhill 2014. R1a was a very small population until M417 emerged.

    Only since the emergence of M417 we observe a demographic boom.

    This is pretty much in agreement with ancestors of M417 being hunters (= not numerous).

    But Underhill back in 2014 did not know that ancestors of M417 lived in Karelia. Now in 2015 we know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post


    It did. Check pages 44 and 47, for example.



    Read Underhill 2014. R1a was a very small population until M417 emerged.

    Only since the emergence of M417 we observe a demographic boom.

    This is pretty much in agreement with ancestors of M417 being hunters (= not numerous).

    But Underhill back in 2014 did not know that ancestors of M417 lived in Karelia. Now in 2015 we know it.
    Once again, do you live on a different planet or something, lol? You're so deep, deep in your denial (sleep) that you are in shock to see the things in reality. You have serious trouble with REALITY. First of all they found R1b and NOT R1a in Yamnaya. Yamnaya folks were for a huge part West Asian (Caucaso-Gedrosian). Caucaso-Gedrosia component is from West Asia, like R1b in Yamnaya and even like R1a*. Because there are all kind of R1a* in West Asia, it's for sure that R1b is from West Asia, because of Caucaso-Gedrosia component in it. Why would R1a* not be from West Asia, when R1b and R1a share the same R1* ancestor. And once again, where is the proof that all direct descendants of R1a1a are from that Karelian fella and not from another M17 (M417) uknown West Asian fella? Maybe all modern S224 folks are descendants from a M17 (M417) from West Asia and NOT Karelia at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Y DNA I1 is popular in Norse. Just because Finno-Urgics live next to Norse doesn't mean they have alot of I1, because they don't. Autosomally speaking(Y DNA doesn't tell total ancestry) Lithuanians are more Mesolithic-derived than Saami.
    But that is again not true! The frequency of I1 in Saamis is c. 26%, and frequency of I1 in West Finland is 41% and in East Finland 20%. And what is your reference when you say that Lithuanians are more Mesolithic-derived than Saami?

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    First of all they found R1b and NOT R1a in Yamnaya.
    Professor Reich (co-author of the study) said - during a lecture which took place after the publication of their study - that both R1a and R1b were surely present in Yamnaya.

    Indo-Europeans were a combination of R1a1a and R1b1a, who were descendants of Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers who switched from hunting to pastoralism.

    That took place in forest-steppe zone of Eastern Europe, which is located south of Karelia (but hunters who were direct ancestors of R1a1a M417 lived in Karelia):

    The Proto-Indo-Europeans likely lived during the late Neolithic, or roughly the 4th millennium BC [4000 - 3000 BCE]. Mainstream scholarship places them in the forest-steppe zone immediately to the north of the western end of the Pontic-Caspian steppe in Eastern Europe. Some archaeologists would extend the time depth of PIE to the middle Neolithic (5500 to 4500 BCE) or even the early Neolithic (7500 to 5500 BCE), and suggest alternative location hypotheses.
    North-Eastern European Hunters - haplogroup M17 (M417), so ancestors of M417 - lived between 5500 and 5000 BCE.

    And M417 emerged (among descendants of those hunters) between 2800 and 4800 BCE. Everything fits pretty well.

    Let's also check Y-DNA from steppe / nomadic Indo-European cultures, discovered to date:

    Yamnaya - R1b1a (only 7 individuals checked so far)
    =============
    Corded Ware - R1a1a
    Tocharians from Xiaohe - R1a1a (and interestingly, Tocharian R1a was not Z93 - read below)
    Andronovo - R1a1a
    Scythians - R1a1a

    ==============================

    Hui Zhou from Jilin University, China, about Tocharian Y-DNA (which was found to be M417, but NOT Z93):

    Hui Zhou (2014-07-18 16:14) Jilin University

    Archaeological and anthropological investigations have helped to formulate two main theories to account for the origin of the populations in the Tarim Basin. The first, so-called “steppe hypothesis”, maintains that the earliest settlers may have been nomadic herders of the Afanasievo culture (ca. 3300-2000 B.C.), a primarily pastoralist culture distributed in the Eastern Kazakhstan, Altai, and Minusinsk regions of the steppe north of the Tarim Basin. The second model, known as the “Bactrian oasis hypothesis”, it maintains that the first settlers were farmers of the Oxus civilization (ca. 2200-1500 B.C.) west of Xinjiang in Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, and Turkmenistan. These contrasting models can be tested using DNA recovered from archaeological bones. Xiaohe cemetery contains the oldest and best-preserved mummies so far discovered in the Tarim Basin, possible those of the earliest people to settle the region. Genetic analysis of these mummies can provide data to elucidate the affinities of the earliest inhabitants.

    Our results show that Xiaohe settlers carried Hg R1a1 in paternal lineages, and Hgs H, K, C4, M*in maternal lineages. Though Hg R1a1a is found at highest frequency in both Europe and South Asia, Xiaohe R1a1a more likely originate from Europe because of it not belonging to R1a1a-Z93 branch (our recently unpublished data) which is mainly found in Asians. mtDNA Hgs H, K, C4 primarily distributed in northern Eurasians. Though H, K, C4 also presence in modern south Asian, they immigrated into South Asian recently from nearby populations, such as Near East , East Asia and Central Asia, and the frequency is obviously lower than that of northern Eurasian. Furthermore, all of the shared sequences of the Xiaohe haplotypes H and C4 were distributed in northern Eurasians. Haplotype 223-304 in Xiaohe people was shared by Indian. However, these sequences were attributed to HgM25 in India, and in our study it was not HgM25 by scanning the mtDNA code region. Therefore, our DNA results didn't supported Clyde Winters’s opinion but supported the “steppe hypothesis”. Moreover, the culture of Xiaohe is similar with the Afanasievo culture. Afanasievo culture was mainly distributed in the Eastern Kazakhstan, Altai, and Minusinsk regions, and didn’t spread into India. This further maintains the “steppe hypothesis”.

    In addition, our data was misunderstand by Clyde Winters. Firstly, the human remains of the Xiaohe site have no relation with the Loulan mummy. The Xiaohe site and Loulan site are two different archaeological sites with 175km distances. Xiaohe site, radiocarbon dated ranging from 4000 to 3500 years before present, was a Bronze Age site, and Loulan site, dated to about 2000 years before present. Secondly, Hgs H and K are the mtDNA haplogroups not the Y chromosome haplogroups in our study. Thirdly, the origin of Xiaohe people in here means tracing the most recently common ancestor, and Africans were remote ancestor of modern people.
    This data is not yet officially published.

    ===================

    We know TOCHARIAN LANGUAGE from surviving to this day materials. Tocharians spoke INDO-EUROPEAN.

    Some links with info about Tocharian language and origins:

    http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/l...tokol-0-X.html

    http://www.oxuscom.com/eyawtkat.htm

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    Yamnaya folks were for a huge part West Asian
    Yamnaya folks (3339 - 2635 BCE) were paternally descended from hunter-gatherer (5640 - 5555 BCE) who had lived in the same place before.

    Gedrosian autosomal admixture could be from females (maybe they took wifes from among people south of them), not necessarily from males.

    Y-DNA haplogroup of that hunter-gatherer from 5640 - 5555 BCE was ancestral to Y-DNA haplogroups of Yamnaya folks from 3339 - 2635 BCE.

    Moreover that hunter from Samara was autosomally EHG (Eastern Euro Hunter-Gatherer) - and extremely close to Karelian R1a1 hunter.

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    where is the proof that all direct descendants of R1a1a are from that Karelian fella and not from another M17 (M417) uknown West Asian fella?
    One mutation emerges only once. The same mutation (in this case M417) cannot emerge in two places at the same time (or at different times).

    Authors of this new study found out that Karelian hunters were M17 (M417) which means they were ancestors of M417.

    So M417 could emerge in West Asia only if Karelians migrated there, or if M17 (M417) was so widespread that it lived both in Karelia and West Asia. Both these ideas seem to be highly unlikely because we know that M17 was very few in numerous, so how could it live in such a vast area?

    Now if we want to keep claiming that M417 emerged in Asia, then we need first to find ancient DNA from Asia which confirms this.

    After these new discoveries from Karelia and East Germany, modern DNA is not enough to prove Asian origins of M417.

    For the moment, the most probable conclusion is that M417 emerged in Eastern Europe. If we get new data from new aDNA, this might change.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Andronovo - R1a1a
    Scythians - R1a1a

    Hui Zhou from Jilin University, China, about Tocharian Y-DNA (which was found to be M417, but NOT Z93):
    No Scythian man yet tested.

    Andronovo horizon only tested in deep eastern part

    Pseudo-Tocharian (Arsi and Kouchean) languages apeared in Tarim basin only in 3 century A.D. in the time when the Kushans came to Tarim basin.
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/G.M201/permalink/10152753616688813/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Yamnaya folks (3339 - 2635 BCE) were paternally descended from hunter-gatherer (5640 - 5555 BCE) who had lived in the same place before.

    Gedrosian autosomal admixture could be from females (maybe they took wifes from among people south of them), not necessarily from males.

    Y-DNA haplogroup of that hunter-gatherer from 5640 - 5555 BCE was ancestral to Y-DNA haplogroups of Yamnaya folks from 3339 - 2635 BCE.

    Moreover that hunter from Samara was autosomally EHG (Eastern Euro Hunter-Gatherer) - and extremely close to Karelian R1a1 hunter.
    Lol, are you serious? What kind of excuse is this? I'm talking about Yamnaya and not Samara, China or Africa. They found R1b in Yamnaya and R1b = from West Asia. What has this to do with females? We're talking about R1b. And oldest subclades of R1b (like R1a* lineages) have been found in West Asia. Caucaso-Gedrosia component is part of R1b. Facts are: R1a is originally from West Asia. R1b is originally from West Asia. R1b is correlated with Caucaso-Gedrsosia component. R1a-Z93 is also correlated with Caucaso-Gedrosia component. They found R1b in Yamnaya. Yamnaya folks were also for a huge part Caucasia-Gedrosia folks. Caucaso-Gedrosia component is from West Asia. So Yamnaya folks that Indo-Europized most people in Europe were for a huge part West Asian. Most Indo-Europized Europeans in Europe don't even belong to that R1b subclade they found in Yamnaya Horizon. Maybe you're a nice fella, nothing personal, but you're so DEEP in denial that you are always looking for excuses (no matter how ridiculous they sound). I'm done with this. I don't have time for this nonsense with you. I'm done, bye, and have a nice day...

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    No Scythian man yet tested.
    Check Copper-Bronze Age aDNA and then Iron Age aDNA sections:

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnaintro.shtml

    Scythians = Tsaagan Asga, Takhilgat Uzuur, Tagar, Pazyryk and Tachtyk.

    Andronovo = ancestors of Scythians (and of Indo-Iranians in general).

    where r1b was involved in spreading indo-european languages in the west and r1a in the east.
    What about R1a in Scandinavia, in the north. We have Z284 (most frequent in Norway), which is downstream from Z282.

    Also R1a CTS4385 / L664 in North-Western Europe and it seems that M417 from Esperstedt (Corded Ware) was ancestral to it.

    According to a new map from Eupedia (is it based on this new 2015 study by Haak et. al. ???), R1b came to Scandinavia 3700 years ago and to Britain 4100 years ago (see below). This would mean that Battle-Axe culture in Scandinavia was R1a Z284 (not R1b). Also it seems that R1a L664 (which could be found in Corded Ware) came to Britain around 4600 years - 500 years before R1b (if this map is correct):


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6
    Andronovo horizon only tested in deep eastern part

    Yamnaya samples also come from its deep eastern part !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga
    I'm talking about Yamnaya and not Samara

    And from this it becomes evident, that you don't know what you are talking about.


    I mean - you have not checked where did they find these Yamnaya folks!

    Samara is a city (and a region) in Russia near the border with Kazakhstan.

    Yamnaya skeletons were buried near Samara. And so was that hunter-gatherer.

    All samples from Yamnaya (which is a culture) come from Samara (which is a location).

    Please, before further discussion, take a look at this PDF document:


    http://biorxiv.org/content/early/201...13433.full.pdf

    Most Indo-Europized Europeans in Europe don't even belong to that R1b subclade they found in Yamnaya Horizon
    They found MORE than just ONE subclade. They found several subclades.

    Seven Yamnaya individuals (from period 3339 - 2635 BCE) from the vicinity of Samara:

    R1b1a2a2* Z2105+, L23+, L150+, M269+, L584-
    R1b1a P297+, M173+, L51-
    R1b1a2a2 CTS1078+, M269+, L150+, L320+
    R1b1a2a* L49+, L23+, PF6399+, L150+, L1353+, PF6509+, M269+, CTS12478+, L51-, Z2105-
    R1b1a2a2 CTS1078/Z2103+, L150+, M415+
    R1b1a2a2* Z2105+, L23+, L320+, L584-, CTS7822-
    R1b1a2a2* CTS1078+, Z2105+, L23+, PF6399+, L265+, PF6434+, L150.1+, PF6482+, M269+, L584-

    Sources:

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml

    And here on page 25:

    http://biorxiv.org/content/early/201...13433.full.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrox
    Yamnaya guys are very close and alike the two EHG samples

    Exactly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Check Copper-Bronze Age aDNA and then Iron Age aDNA sections:

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnaintro.shtml

    Scythians = Tsaagan Asga, Takhilgat Uzuur, Tagar, Pazyryk and Tachtyk.

    Andronovo = ancestors of Scythians (and of Indo-Iranians in general).
    The mark of Scythians and some other Iranians is Acinaces
    so not one of these cultures being tested is Scythian
    Pazyryk culture is untested for Y-dna, only mtdna is tested and it is N1a

    Andronovo horizon in west south central and northern part are untested
    Tachtyks are Uraloids according to Alekseev the biggest anthropologist
    etc

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    Pazyryk culture is untested for Y-dna

    Wrong. There is R1a1a M17 from Pazyryk culture fom Sebÿstei Valley [SEB 96K2], near Kosh-Agash, Russian Altai, ca. 450 BCE.

    Check Ricaut 2004c and Keyser 2009. And also here: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ironagedna.shtml

    The mark of Scythians and some other Iranians is Acinaces
    so not one of these cultures being tested is Scythian
    You have a funny / strange definition of Scythians. Anyway - all of them were Indo-Europeans, whether Scythians or other IEs.

    Tachtyks are Uraloids according to Alekseev the biggest anthropologist

    "Uraloids" with blond hair and blue eyes ???:


    TACHTYK PIGMENTATION DATA - large image



    But if they mixed with Uraloid females then who knows.

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    And here for Andronovo:

    Andronovo Pigmentation Data - image



    Also here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androno...urasian_origin

    Out of 10 human male remains assigned to the Andronovo horizon from the Krasnoyarsk region, 9 possessed the R1a Y-chromosome haplogroup and one the haplogroup C-M130 (xC3). MtDNA haplogroups of nine individuals assigned to the same Andronovo horizon and region were as follows: U4 (2 individuals), U2e, U5a1, Z, T1, T4, H, and K2b.

    90% of the Bronze Age period mtDNA haplogroups were of west Eurasian origin and the study determined that at least 60% of the individuals overall (out of the 26 Bronze and Iron Age human remains' samples of the study that could be tested) had light hair and blue or green eyes.[3]

    A 2004 study also established that, during the Bronze/Iron Age period, the majority of the population of Kazakhstan (part of the Andronovo culture during Bronze Age), was of west Eurasian origin (with mtDNA haplogroups such as U, H, HV, T, I and W), and that prior to the thirteenth to seventh century BC, all Kazakh samples belonged to European lineages.[4]
    As for this C from Andronovo - Paleolithic hunter-gatherer Kostenki man from Russia was also C.

    ==============================

    Tagar culture is also full of light-haired R1a individuals:

    Tagar Pigmentation Data - image


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    On the other hand, pigmentation of Karasuk culture from Mongolia (1400 - 800 BCE) is already darker.

    That's because they are: 44,4% (4) R1a1a1b2 Z93 + 11,1% (1) C-M130 + 11,1% (1) Q-M242 + 33,3% (3) Q1a2a1 L54.

    The latter (especially Q1a2a1 L54 and Q-M242) introduced dark genes. But dark blond can still be found.

    ===============
    ===============

    Check also this:

    http://www.scientificfund.kz/index.p...-their-genesis



    And this:

    http://www.uni-mainz.de/FB/Biologie/...eChartsWeb.png

    Fig. 2: Distribution of mitochondrial lineages in the Altai region.
    Green: lineages today mainly found in modern Europe; blue: lineages today mainly found in modern East Asia:




    This second graph is from: http://www.uni-mainz.de/FB/Biologie/...ntralAsia.html

    (2) Sub-project “Steppe Nomads” (Martina Unterländer)

    This study addresses the population dynamics in the Eurasian steppe during the Iron Age. It is carried out in collaboration with H. Parzinger (Director Preußischer Kulturbesitz), A. Nagler (German Archaeological Institute, Berlin), Z. Samachev (Margulan Institut für Archäologie, Akademie der Wissenschaft Kazakhstan, Almaty) and V.I. Molodin (Sibirisches Institut für Archäologie und Ethnographie, Akademgorodok, Russia). Beginning with the 9th century BC, there is evidence for clans of horse nomads from the Altai in the East to as far as North of the Black Sea. Because of the astounding uniformity of their material culture, life style and death rituals, they are often summarised under the term Scythians. The name ‘Scythian’ derives from a people mentioned in Herodotus’ Histories that populated the area north of the Black Sea in the 7th century BC. Their only material legacy is found in the form of kurgans, the impressive burial mounds of the Scythian elite. The earliest archaeological evidence of this culture stems from the region of Tuva, with the kurgan Arzan 1 dating to the 9th century BC. Until the 2nd century BC there are a number of populations in the area of the Eurasian steppe belt which can be assigned to that Scythian culture.

    Together with our partners, we want to answer whether the obvious cultural homogeneity of these groups points to a common origin or rather to the phenomenon of acculturation. The intention is to understand the ethnogenesis and the population historical connections of these groups called Scythians.

    Our data show highly diverse maternal lineages whose composition changes over time within the different populations. At the outset of the 1st century BC the examined populations of the Altai region show a relatively high number of lineages which today are found predominantly in Europe. Over time a change takes place which is reflected in an increased number of maternal lineages predominantly found today in East Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    On the other hand, pigmentation of Karasuk culture from Mongolia (1400 - 800 BCE) is already darker.

    That's because they are: 44,5% (4) R1a1a1b2 Z93 + 11,1% (1) C-M130 + 11,1% (1) Q-M242 + 33,3% (3) Q1a2a1 L54.

    The latter (especially Q1a2a1 L54 and Q-M242) introduced dark genes. But dark blond can still be found.
    I think yourself and Goga misunderstand the paper.........its states from yamnya these people came from , it does not say they migrated through yamnya. regardless if they where east-asian or near eastern, they settled in yamnya, then over time moved to central europe. This claim can only come from haak via a skeltral reading of its isotopes
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Are you sure that you quoted correct post? Maybe by mistake you quoted wrong post.

    Because I don't see any connection between that quote and your response to it.

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    Even today there are red haired people with blue eyes Uraloids, the Udmurts for Example

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post

    You have a funny / strange definition of Scythians. .
    This is a definition of Archeologists, Scythians =(those who had) Scythian Iron Acinaces + Scythian Animal style
    Scythian Animal style is close to previous Luristan Bronze( in west Iran) of late Bronze age

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