Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 179

Thread: Massive migration from the steppe - extended discussion

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Massive migration from the steppe - extended discussion

    99% of modern R1a in the world originated and expanded from Eastern Europe, not from Iran (as Underhill suggested in 2014).

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,196
    Points
    39,519
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,519, Level: 61
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 831
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    There was never Thrachians civilization outside the Balkan( and to a lesser extend Anatolia) :) I hope they will test for male lines remains fro Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia and North Greece, this is what was the Thrachian core :)
    queen thamar
    thracian queen,
    east caucas,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #3
    Banned Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-11
    Location
    Bărăgan
    Posts
    249
    Points
    5,213
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,213, Level: 21
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 337
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Argeș(~SER+MAC)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Walati(Vlachs)

    Ethnic group
    Thraco-Roman
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    civilization
    Indeed,this is the true engine of the ethnicity,making the populations mentioned above[i'll add the Albanians, not(only)because i'm Romanian] ,to some degree,of "Thracian" origin.
    As for the genes, it can be quite tricky for various reasons.And,as far as I know ,only the elites were inhumated.

    some anthropology:

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/MankindQuarterly-1980jan-00321

    from an early Getae necropolis of Dobruja:

    http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/ar...ere-jud-tulcea

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    All this region was once Indo_Iranian speaking. Either Turks themselves are "altaified" Irano_Aryans OR they are Altains who mixed and replaced them.
    depends on how much influence the khanate of Sibir ( a part tatar people ) had over these Altai and the Nogai these "western kazaks/uzbeks"
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  5. #5
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    764
    Points
    7,511
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,511, Level: 25
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 39
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Yes, great results. Never expected such a confirmation of my theories. No R1a in Yamnaya, so there's still no evidence that R1a-Z93 in Iranic folks is from Yamnaya or the Pontic-Caspian Steppes in general. I knew it, but didn't expect that they would find Anatolian (Armenian, West Iranic) R1b in Yamnaya. R1b in Yamnaya is Anatolia, which again is a great indication that Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich Ivanov is right about his Armenian hypothesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_hypothesis . The latest results are victory for Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich Ivanov & Tamaz V. Gamkrelidze! It's true that Indo-Europeans in Europe came from Yamnaya. But folks from NorthWest Asia (from Maykop) Indo-Europized the Yamnaya folks in the Steppes. I was telling this all the time. Indo-Europeanization occured in stages. Best news for me is that R1a-Z93 has nothing to do with the Yamnaya. And this fact is making my thoughts even stronger!
    Lol. Let the games begin.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    27-03-18
    Location
    santa rosa ,ca, USA
    Posts
    71
    Points
    1,222
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,222, Level: 9
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 128
    Overall activity: 28.0%


    Ethnic group
    chinese
    Country: USA - California



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    wang chuan chao

    Wang Chuan Chao: 2018

    Recent ancient DNA studies have enabled the resolution of several long-standing questions regarding cultural and population transformations in prehistory. One of these is the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition in Europe, which saw a change from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle to a sedentary, food-producing subsistence strategy. Genome-wide data from pre-farming and farming communities have identified distinct ancestral populations that largely reflect subsistence patterns in addition to geography25. One important feature is a cline of European hunter-gatherer (HG) ancestry that runs roughly from West to East (hence WHG and EHG; blue component in Fig. 2A, 2C), which differs greatly from the ancestry of Early European farmers that in turn is closely related to that of northwest Anatolian farmers, and more remotely also to pre-farming individuals from the Levant. The Near East and Anatolia have long been seen as the regions from which European farming and animal husbandry emerged. Surprisingly, these regions harboured three divergent populations, with Anatolian and Levantine ancestry in the western part and a group with a distinct ancestry in the eastern part first described in Upper Pleistocene individuals from Georgia (Caucasus hunter-gatherers; CHG) and then in Mesolithic and Neolithic individuals from Iran. The following two millennia, spanning from the Neolithic to Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age periods in each region, witnessed migration and admixture between these ancestral groups, leading to a pattern of genetic homogenization and reduced genetic distances between these Neolithic source populations. In parallel, Eneolithic individuals from the Samara region (5200-4000 BCE) also exhibit population mixture, specifically EHG- and CHG/Iranian ancestry, a combination that forms the so-called ‘steppe-ancestry’. This ancestry eventually spread further west, where it contributed substantially to the ancestry of present- day Europeans, and east to the Altai region as well as to South Asia.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/05/16/322347.full.pdf
    Last edited by xiaodragon; 06-06-19 at 00:19. Reason: line numbers included

  7. #7
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    99% of modern R1a in the world originated and expanded from Eastern Europe, not from Iran (as Underhill suggested in 2014).
    I'm R1a* and the haplogroup to which I do belong is older than all R1a in Europe combined. My R1a is native to Zagros, Western Parts of the Iranian Plateau. Even according to 23andMe, DNA company where I got my DNA results, is saying that R1a is from the Iranian Plateau..

    Underhill (2014) has suggested that R1a is from the Iranian Plateau, just read his paper one more time! Please don't spread lies...

  8. #8
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    According to Underhill (2014) hg. R1a is from Kurdistan!


    " Origin of hg R1a

    To infer the geographic origin of hg R1a-M420, we identified populations harboring at least one of the two most basal haplogroups and possessing high haplogroup diversity. Among the 120 populations with sample sizes of at least 50 individuals and with at least 10% occurrence of R1a, just 6 met these criteria, and 5 of these 6 populations reside in modern-day Iran. Haplogroup diversities among the six populations ranged from 0.78 to 0.86 (Supplementary Table 4). Of the 24 R1a-M420*(xSRY10831.2) chromosomes in ourdata set, 18 were sampled in Iran and 3 were from eastern Turkey. Similarly, five of the six observed R1a1-SRY10831.2* (xM417
    /Page7) chromosomes were also from Iran, with the sixth occurring in a Kabardin individual from the Caucasus. Owing to the prevalenceof basal lineages and the high levels of haplogroup diversities in the region, we find a compelling case for the Middle East, possibly near present-day Iran, as the geographic origin of hg R1a. "

    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    27-03-18
    Location
    santa rosa ,ca, USA
    Posts
    71
    Points
    1,222
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,222, Level: 9
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 128
    Overall activity: 28.0%


    Ethnic group
    chinese
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    According to Underhill (2014) hg. R1a is from Kurdistan!


    " Origin of hg R1a

    To infer the geographic origin of hg R1a-M420, we identified populations harboring at least one of the two most basal haplogroups and possessing high haplogroup diversity. Among the 120 populations with sample sizes of at least 50 individuals and with at least 10% occurrence of R1a, just 6 met these criteria, and 5 of these 6 populations reside in modern-day Iran. Haplogroup diversities among the six populations ranged from 0.78 to 0.86 (Supplementary Table 4). Of the 24 R1a-M420*(xSRY10831.2) chromosomes in ourdata set, 18 were sampled in Iran and 3 were from eastern Turkey. Similarly, five of the six observed R1a1-SRY10831.2* (xM417
    /Page7) chromosomes were also from Iran, with the sixth occurring in a Kabardin individual from the Caucasus. Owing to the prevalenceof basal lineages and the high levels of haplogroup diversities in the region, we find a compelling case for the Middle East, possibly near present-day Iran, as the geographic origin of hg R1a. "

    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html
    The book of :山海经(tentatively translated into Classics of Mountains and Seas " has documented the settlements all the way from China ,from the south route ,into Iran , and Anatolia . It is the 4th line of mountains that make up all the landmarks over this route . It is an ancient document, the oldest geographic and population record in ancient times.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Aberdeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-11-13
    Posts
    1,839
    Points
    52,092
    Level
    70
    Points: 52,092, Level: 70
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 458
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4

    Ethnic group
    Scottish, English and German
    Country: Canada-Ontario



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    I'm R1a* and the haplogroup to which I do belong is older than all R1a in Europe combined. My R1a is native to Zagros, Western Parts of the Iranian Plateau. Even according to 23andMe, DNA company where I got my DNA results, is saying that R1a is from the Iranian Plateau..

    Underhill (2014) has suggested that R1a is from the Iranian Plateau, just read his paper one more time! Please don't spread lies...
    Even if it was true that R1a originated on the Iranian Plateau several thousand years before Yamnaya, that doesn't tell us anything about where Bronze Age Indo-Europeans lived before their expansion into various parts of Europe and Asia. And some people think the original R1a differentiated into subclades in Europe and can provide facts to support that idea. The chap at the Eurogenes Blog pointed out that there was a Mesolithic Karelian R1a (x198) a Late Neolithic Corded Ware pastoralist from Germany who was R1a (M198, M417 and Z282) and a Late Bronze Age Urnfield from Germany who was R1a1 (M198, M417, Z282 and Z280). So he sees R1a as having developed into the European subclades right in Europe. And while I don't necessarily agree with that interpretation, he does have facts on his side.

  11. #11
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Even if it was true that R1a originated on the Iranian Plateau several thousand years before Yamnaya, that doesn't tell us anything about where Bronze Age Indo-Europeans lived before their expansion into various parts of Europe and Asia. And some people think the original R1a differentiated into subclades in Europe and can provide facts to support that idea. The chap at the Eurogenes Blog pointed out that there was a Mesolithic Karelian R1a (x198) a Late Neolithic Corded Ware pastoralist from Germany who was R1a (M198, M417 and Z282) and a Late Bronze Age Urnfield from Germany who was R1a1 (M198, M417, Z282 and Z280). So he sees R1a as having developed into the European subclades right in Europe. And while I don't necessarily agree with that interpretation, he does have facts on his side.
    Those chappies from Eurogenes are Polish amateurs and very ethnocentric. I stopped reading his nonsense blog a very long time ago. Even watching porn is better for your brains than reading their retard nonsense. No, the user 'Tomenable' is very wrong! Compared to the actual ancient age of R1a*, the R1a in Europe is very young and came to Europe in very recent times. Only the modern EUROPEAN R1a subclades differentiated inside Europe, not the oldest one. And it's very logical that R1a differentiate in Europe. May I tell you a secret, all haplogroup differentiate sooner or later. There are also many NATIVE R1a subclades that differentiated in West Asia and Central Asia. R1a-Z93 has NOTHING to do with Europe. And the modern Europeans have NOTHING to do with R1a-Z93! FACT 1! Also European R1a has NOTHING to do with West and Central Asia. R1a is evolving further, even today. But the oldest R1a is from the Iranian Plateau and it entered the Pontic Caspian Steppes and from there into Europe originally from Iran. FACT 2!

  12. #12
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    " Based on spatial distributions and diversity patterns within the R1a-M420 clade, particularly rare basal branches detected primarily within Iran and eastern Turkey, we conclude that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran. " - http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html

  13. #13
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    It's possible this is how R1a* entered the Pontic Caspian Steppes FIRST and LATER invaded Eastern and Central Europe from there :

    Ivanov is a genius!


    Armenian Model by Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich Ivanov & Tamaz V. Gamkrelidze



  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    1,048
    Points
    9,076
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,076, Level: 28
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 274
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Yes
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Yes

    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    It's possible this is how R1a* entered the Pontic Caspian Steppes FIRST and LATER invaded Eastern and Central Europe from there :

    Ivanov is a genius!


    Armenian Model by Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich Ivanov & Tamaz V. Gamkrelidze



    Thanks for this map. Except that I think it more applies to R1b rather than R1a. Check out this map in this old thread:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post411715

    Not having time to read all this fascinating new stuff in this thread, but your map from Ivanov jumped into my eye.
    It fits well the Indo-Iranian autosomal trail shown in the link above and coincides well with the Gedrosian tendency in NW-Europe.
    I'm also pleased that R1b was confirmed at the eastern edge of Yamna because my theory is that R1b went through Central Asia before reaching the pontic steppe, instead of directly crossing the Caucasus north. But I'm not sure yet. It is also possible that the central asian Kelteminar culture (having cultural similarity to the NE-European Comb-Ceramic culture) is the ancestor of these R1b people.

  15. #15
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    you missed oetzi on your map...........exactly same time frame as the G2a in germany ( on your map )
    He also missed the four Corded Ware samples from Poland (Neolithic looking) and Germany (R1a) and the three Bell Beaker R1b samples from Germany. Including those samples might have complicated things - the two oldest and most easterly CW samples weren't R1a.

    I considered adding Oetzi as well. But Corded Ware is too late for that map.

    Anyway - you can find this data here (they also already added these new samples from Haak 2015):

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnaintro.shtml

    They have aDNA divided into chronological categories, for example:

    Mesolithic aDNA
    European Neolithic aDNA
    Copper-Bronze Age aDNA

    Oetzi and Corded Ware are included in "Copper-Bronze Age aDNA".

    I added to my map only those from Neolithic and Mesolithic aDNA.

    Should I add also Oetzi to the map ???

  16. #16
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    So he sees R1a as having developed into the European subclades right in Europe. And while I don't necessarily agree with that interpretation, he does have facts on his side.

    Exactly, he does have facts on his side. That
    Mesolithic Karelian R1a was M198 (M417) - which means that he was the ancestor of M417.

    M417 has an estimated TMRCA as 4800 - 6800 years ago, most probably 5000 - 5800 years ago. That M198 (M417) Karelian lived 7000 - 7500 years ago.

    Late Neolithic Corded Ware pastoralist from Germany who was R1a (M198, M417 and Z282)

    Nope. This Corded Ware pastoralist was not Z282. He was CTS4385 and probably
    L664.

  17. #17
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    R1a-Z93 has NOTHING to do with Europe.
    WOW! So much anger! Maybe you should take a look at the phylogenetic tree of R1a. Z93 is descended from M417.

    And we now have M417 in a Late Neolithic / Copper Age Central European and M198 (M417) in a Mesolithic North-Eastern European.

    So everything indicates that ancestors of Z93 - who were M417 - lived somewhere in Europe before moving to Asia.

  18. #18
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post


    WOW! So much anger! Maybe you should take a look at the phylogenetic tree of R1a. Z93 is descended from M417.

    And we now have M417 in a Late Neolithic / Copper Age Central European and M198 (M417) in a Mesolithic North-Eastern European.

    So everything indicates that ancestors of Z93 - who were M417 - lived somewhere in Europe before moving to Asia.
    Not angry, but tired reading the same nonsense time after time! No, Z93 is from R1a-S224, and they also found R1a-S224 in West Asia too...

  19. #19
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    According to them the real and original R1a is from West Asia.
    The "real and original R1a" is today only 1% of entire global R1a.

    99% of global R1a is M417 (Z93 is also downstream from M417) and we now have the oldest M417 in Europe.

    So you will need a lot of gymnastics to prove that M417 came to Europe from Asia.

  20. #20
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    ancestral m417 exist in South_Central Asia and even West Asia
    But we now have aDNA from Europe which is M417 and ancestral to M417. Karelian hunter and Corded Ware pastoralist.

    Find me some aDNA with M417 from Asia.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post

    I considered adding Oetzi as well. But Corded Ware is too late for that map.

    Anyway - you can find this data here (they also already added these new samples from Haak 2015):

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnaintro.shtml

    They have aDNA divided into chronological categories, for example:

    Mesolithic aDNA
    European Neolithic aDNA
    Copper-Bronze Age aDNA

    Oetzi and Corded Ware are included in "Copper-Bronze Age aDNA".

    I added to my map only those from Neolithic and Mesolithic aDNA.

    Should I add also Oetzi to the map ???
    I would add oetzi

    BTW, what did you do for the spanish Troc4 in the link your provided for your map?

  22. #22
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    and they also found R1a-S224 in West Asia too...


    So what, if S224 is descended from M417, and the oldest M417 is now found in Europe...

  23. #23
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Entire S224 is from M417.
    Haha, you're completely missing the boat here. There's also M417 in West Asia and also the ancestors the M17, SRY1532.2+, M420 even SRY1532.2- etc. in West Asia. All those line has been found in West Asia!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    27-03-18
    Location
    santa rosa ,ca, USA
    Posts
    71
    Points
    1,222
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,222, Level: 9
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 128
    Overall activity: 28.0%


    Ethnic group
    chinese
    Country: USA - California



    Malta, where asia starts

    It seems that there exist different ideas of where the Continent of Asia starts, and where the continent of Europe ends. In the northern part of the Eurasia , the Ural mountain range has for quite sometime formed the dividing line between Asia and Europe . Therefore , it is very surprising that Fu Qiaomei would list the samples from Ust-Ishim Man , AG sample and Malta boy as European . The positions of them are : Ust -Ishim E.71, Malta E.193, AG both E 92. Could we get agreement where to draw the line that separate Asia and Europe , so the ancient history is not clouded by the shifting line in the sands?
    Last edited by xiaodragon; 13-06-19 at 21:57. Reason: grammar

  25. #25
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,504
    Points
    59,044
    Level
    75
    Points: 59,044, Level: 75
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,006
    Overall activity: 30.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    (what is Europe anyways do you guys count Samara which is actually closer to Kazakhstan and already Asia to me as Europe too?)
    Samara was R1b not R1a. And - by the way - Samara is still located in European part of Russia.

    But we have a direct ancestor of M417 from Karelia and an actual M417 from Esperstedt.

    Karelia and
    Esperstedt are definitely Europe (unless you agree with Konrad Adenauer that Asia starts east of the Elbe River).

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •