haplogroup mt H4a

[Arngrim]

Hi all,


new to this site, I am looking for information on my mitochondrial haplogroup, which seems underrepresented: H4a. I do not find enough information on the internet, and the few that I find not do me much ...
I saw that it would have appeared on the shores of the Black Sea there are about 12,000 years and is present mainly in Poland and Ireland. On another site, someone also said that there would be a lot of carries this haplogroup on the shores of the North Sea.
My maternal line from Switzerland, so far enough from Poland or Ireland, I wonder what historical tribes attach this haplogroup, what population movements, which would justify the presence of H4a in the depths of the canton of Freiburg lol.

[Aberdeen]

As far as I've been able to determine, there's not much information out there about mtDNA H4.

[marielouise]

My haplogroup is H4a1a1a1a. I was born in Sweden and my maternal ancestors also lived in Sweden at least from the mid 1700s. I agree that there does not seem to be too munch information about H4.

[Arbaso]

I am also a H4a 1a1a, according to the ADN results processed in 23andme.
There is very little information on this haplogroup, maybe because it is very scattered around Europe, from what I am reading in this forum and in others. I will share with you my background, in case it is helpful for anybody:
Ethnically speaking I am Basque. I can trace my mithocondrial line back to around 1600s and all those women were Basques who lived in the Biscayan coast. The 23andme results concluded that I am 98% from the Iberian peninsula. I wonder what this means: my ancestors have always lived in the same place, that is, in the Northern area of the Iberian peninsula?
I read in your posts that people who also have this haplogroup come from Switzerland and from Sweden, which seem quite far away from the Basque Country. The more I read about this haplogroup, the more puzzled I get. If anyone can throw some light on this, we'll be so grateful!

[marielouise]

My haplogroup is H4a1a1a1a. All my maternal ancestors lived in Sweden, in the same general area, in Västergötland. I have gone back, in my research, to Annika Larsdotter Thiman, born in 1656 in Kvänum, Skaraborg county. Västergötland is an agricultural area, and apparently it was settled early by a farmer population. I would love to know more about them!

[Judith]

Arbaso please join the FTDNA H4 project if you have not already joined? And all other H4s!
The earliest H4 DNA that I know of is from Spain and it is early Neolithic. That makes your ancestor possibly one of the earliest H4 in Europe.

It says that the Eastern Europe LBK culture had common origins (levant) with the Cardial culture
The person lived ~5300BC and the sample is H4a1a is F19
I can not post a link yet but search for Olade Spain and ancient DNA and you will find it in mbe.oxfordjournals.

[BBow]

My haplogroup is H4a1a4b. My maternal family have been in New Zealand since the 1860s, it seems that my Great Great Grandmother was Irish, possibly born in Cork - one of the reasons for having the MtDNA test was to see if more could be discovered about this branch of my family.

[LondonBlueEyes]

My haplogroup is H4a1a1a1a. All my maternal ancestors lived in Sweden, in the same general area, in Västergötland. I have gone back, in my research, to Annika Larsdotter Thiman, born in 1656 in Kvänum, Skaraborg county. Västergötland is an agricultural area, and apparently it was settled early by a farmer population. I would love to know more about them!

Like you Marie Louise my maternal roots are firmly planted in Skaraborg, Västergötland. My oldest ancestor found is Christina Persdotter b. 1784 in Fredsberg parish, Skaraborg. Also my paternal roots are to a large extent found in Västergötland, but some of them in Bergslagen (Örebro) and Småland.

[Arbaso]

Hi Judith, I have been reading the information provided by FTDNA H4 project and I will also go through the Oxford journals paper, which really seems interesting.
However, it seems that I cannot join the FTDNA project unless I order one of their DNA tests:
To join you should:
Have Results from the mtDNA Full Genomic Sequence test at Family Tree DNA to get the most from the project
Have your HVR1, HVR2, and Coding Region (CR) results turned on.
Allow this project's admins to see your CR data.

I have the raw data provided by 23andMe and no problem at all to share it, the more so if it helps clarify the whereabouts of H4 in Europe. But I am not willing to take further DNA tests or pay to join a project. Any suggestions, Judith?

Thanks for your interest!

[Judith]

Hi we are both new to the forum so neither of us can PM yet. When we can we should exchange information. I totally understand your hesitation to pay more when you already know the answer of which group you are in. Can you upload your results to James Licks mt hap analyser and that will tell you will extra mutations you have. Since you are from the Basque area you may be autosomal (and mtDNA) early farmer. The GEDMATCH admixture tool puntl k10 ancient will tell you that.

[Arbaso]

Thanks for pointing the James Licks analyser, I didn't know about it. As for GEDMATCH, I already uploaded my results there. These are the results I get with Puntl k10 Ancient:

Population
ASI	-
Sub-Saharan	0.59
Oceanian	-
Beringian	-
ENF	39.47
CHG	14.20
Siberian	-
E_Asian	-
WHG	44.35
Amerindian	1.39

Looking at the average in oracle4 for Spanish Basques, I am more or less there, except my WHG seems a little lower. By the way, what does CHG stand for? I don't know much about these admixture things, but this one says that my hunter-gatherer percentage is higher than the neolithic farmer one.

[Judith]

MarieLouise do you know how early your farmers settled in Sweden?
H4 is generally everywhere in Europe at a low level and high level means >3% and the ftdna H4 project site has the details where known, but information is not available for every country.
CHG is Caucasus hunter gatherer and it gets into Europe via the early farmers from Turkey and Levant about 7000years ago then later in the Bronze Age 4000 years ago with the Steppe people.
All of the significant migrations of prehistory contributed to today's distribution.

[Judith]

Arbaso for comparison I am English and my results are
sub Sahara 0.92
oceanian 0
Beringian 0.65
ENF 27.6
CHG 19.8
WHG 48.9
Amerindian 0.58

We need to ignore the less than 1% ones but the most significant is your ENF is much higher than mine. I have more WHG and more CHG from the Bronze Age Steppe invaders.
H4 has caught Maciamo's interest and he has posted a new thread.

[RTerry]

Hello out there to all my fellow H4 relatives. I, like all of you am finding it extremely difficult to find any information regarding H4 or further subclades. I am H4a1a1a3 and have had very little success recovering even basic information about my haplogroup. This has been frustrating because much of the resarch studies and other works I have found may mention H4 but only include the same sad information regarding H4- Often found in Iberia and Ireland. My grandmother, through oral history, passed down our maternal lineage as Dutch. I have read many studies regarding mtDNA H, but all of he research has left me with more questions than answers. Multiple immunological studies mention H1, H3 and H4 to be protective against several diseases including HIV, but I have yet to see any data or sudy conclusions to elaborate with any information specific to H4. Last week Family Tree did change my origins from (R-M222) 22% Ireland and British Isles and (H4a1a1a3) 77% Western and Central Europe to 98% British Isles and 2% other. Either H4 information is being withheld from the general public, paying DNA Study Participants, due to Political or other reasons or H4 is an incorrectly published haplogroup. Something seems unusual about the lack of information and/or secrecy surrounding our haplogroup. It seems much information is being withheld from us and I find this frustrating, unfair, alarming and ehically questionable since I am paying for this service and allowing for ongoing research with my DNA and sequencing results. It was nice to vent a bit with others I am sure feel quite similar at times.

[Arbaso]

Hi RTerry, I understand your frustration about the lack of information for H4 and subclades. I am H4a1a1a* from the Basque Country, and FTDNA has me now as 100% Iberian. I'm not sure why you are saying that H4 is an incorrectly published haplogroup, although I do agree that experts don't share all the information they have, that there should be more transparency. However, I think the main problem we have in the H4 haplogroup is its scarcity, and also the wierd distribution of it in the world now. Look, I am in a Facebook group called Iberia ADN, with more than 2000 members, and I am the ONLY H4 in the group. I read in a scientific paper that regarding the Iberian peninsula, H4 is present in less than 5% only in the northern part. In the FTDNA H4 project there are many H4s from the British Isles, but also from Sweden, Poland, Austria...Apparently, there are also quite a few in northern Africa and Arabia. The distribution is wierd. I agree there should be more information, but I think even experts don't know what to do with this 'funny' haplogroup.

[Judith]

We are certainly a wierd HG, all over Europe, and hence America too. I am H4a1a1a with 6 extra mutations.
The scientists are not so keen to use us and hence tell us where all of the sub clades come from because it is too unclear. So it is up to us amateurs!
There is a useful technique we have discovered for 23&me results:
Upload your autosomal 23&me to FTDNA (and get more matches, about 10% of 23&me or FTDNA ones)
Apply to join the H4 project
Upload your mtDNA to James Lick and paste the results onto a document and email the H4 volunteer admins with it explaining why you have asked to join the H4 project.
I have proved that it works by doing it.

[MsJ]

Hello all! I am new to Eupedia. According to 23andme I am H4a2. I cannot find anything on that subclass except that it exists. When I used James Licke's calculator I received H4a1c1a as my best match except that the mutation at H4a that moves me to H4a1 is missing. So is that why 23andme put me in H4a2? Maybe? My earliest maternal ancestor that I know was an Elizabeth Derryberry whose surname was Anglicized from Durrengberger. There is speculation that her maternal grandmother was a Dekker from Bayern. But it's really just a guess and I was hoping my tDNA would shed some light. But I'm just more confused!

[Youcef1825]

Hi everyone,

I'm from North-East Algeria, from a city called Jijel along the mediterranean sea, and my mtDNA haplogroup has just been tested as H4a1a by FTDNA.

I've spent the day searching for its origins and its history, but found nothing, except that it is very rare and spread all over Europe and the Near East, but it's rare everywhere ..

I'm just like all of you, searching for some information about H4.

[astanton]

I'm also an H4a and wish I could get more information online about it. It's rare accounting for 5% of Poland's population, which is where I was born. Outside of Poland it is even more rare so apparently there are not a lot of us around. Besides Warren Buffet having it, does anyone know of any famous people with that haplogroup?

Hi all,


new to this site, I am looking for information on my mitochondrial haplogroup, which seems underrepresented: H4a. I do not find enough information on the internet, and the few that I find not do me much ...
I saw that it would have appeared on the shores of the Black Sea there are about 12,000 years and is present mainly in Poland and Ireland. On another site, someone also said that there would be a lot of carries this haplogroup on the shores of the North Sea.
My maternal line from Switzerland, so far enough from Poland or Ireland, I wonder what historical tribes attach this haplogroup, what population movements, which would justify the presence of H4a in the depths of the canton of Freiburg lol.

[roberto1960]

I am Y R-Z43 MT H5F I am from ITALY florence tuscany

[WickedWise]

I just received my 23andMe results as well and I am H4a. I live in the US and my mother was adopted so I know very little on her side. My results came back as:
99.5% European
50.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
34.2% NW European - 22.6% Scandinavian, 5.5% British & Irish, 6.2% Broadly European
10.5% Eastern European
0.3% Southern European - 0.3% Broadly S. European
4.3% Broadly European
0.5% East Asian & Native American
<0.1% Sub-Saharan African
MtDNA H4a

I don't talk to my father and all my grandparents have passed away but of course I can only assume the same of my mothers birth parents.
I'm just pretty much digging around looking for information to expand what I have found.
I do know that the genetic disease gene, Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency, that I carry (MZ) most likely came from my mother's Scandinavian side. It was originally most prevalent there. I also have Leri's Disease/Melorheostosis in my foot but due to its rarity they haven't made any genetic connections although many sufferers have multiple family members with it.
So, I suppose that is my story.
I'm glad to have found a bit of information here and I hope we find more as a team!

[Judith]

Hi everyone,

I'm from North-East Algeria, from a city called Jijel along the mediterranean sea, and my mtDNA haplogroup has just been tested as H4a1a by FTDNA.

I've spent the day searching for its origins and its history, but found nothing, except that it is very rare and spread all over Europe and the Near East, but it's rare everywhere ..

I'm just like all of you, searching for some information about H4.

Hi Jijel, have you joined the ftdna project? It is probably our best chance of tracking ourselves back! Judith

[Judith]

I just received my 23andMe results as well and I am H4a. I live in the US and my mother was adopted so I know very little on her side. My results came back as:
99.5% European
50.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
34.2% NW European - 22.6% Scandinavian, 5.5% British & Irish, 6.2% Broadly European
10.5% Eastern European
0.3% Southern European - 0.3% Broadly S. European
4.3% Broadly European
0.5% East Asian & Native American
<0.1% Sub-Saharan African
MtDNA H4a

I don't talk to my father and all my grandparents have passed away but of course I can only assume the same of my mothers birth parents.
I'm just pretty much digging around looking for information to expand what I have found.
I do know that the genetic disease gene, Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency, that I carry (MZ) most likely came from my mother's Scandinavian side. It was originally most prevalent there. I also have Leri's Disease/Melorheostosis in my foot but due to its rarity they haven't made any genetic connections although many sufferers have multiple family members with it.
So, I suppose that is my story.
I'm glad to have found a bit of information here and I hope we find more as a team!

Hi wickedwise
You mother is adopted but you do have Scandinavian too so was she adopted locally in Scandinavia?
Are you Ashkenazy on your father’s side?You will be sure that the ethnicity suggested is true because you will have many 1000s of 3-5th cousins.
23&me have many interest groups some of which are on the health aspects and maybe one of your inherited diseases may be a topic too. The only way the actual part of the gene which causes each disease get identified is by lots of people testing. Between us we hold many of the answers if we but knew it! If your interests are not a group there then form one. As you say it must be genetic when it runs in families. Hope you find more insight in it all.

[davef]

wickedwise is without a speck of doubt half Ashkenazi. 23andme is the best at finding Ashkenazi patterns.

[[email protected]]

Hi am Casey I did the 23andme DNA test my maternal haplogroup was H4a I have 36% French and German mine said it was traced back to Marie Antoinette and Coprenicus.