New big paper on Catalan Y-DNA

Drac II said:
No, not to me directly, but you did come to these forums trying to paint phony pictures of an entire region of Europe for who-knows what personal purposes. In the process you also tried to manipulate what this website actually says to try to back up your weird claims. Did you think you were going to get away with it and no one was going to say anything and put things back in the proper perspective?
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Don't waste your time.
 
Drac II said:
That's the "advice" you should have considered for yourself before you came here posting weird claims about things that you only have rather nebulous notions about.
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There are no claims. What I say, is usually in perspectives and metaphors - There is a difference. I believe that Spain has a very interesting history. It seems that you are self-projecting your own insecurities onto other people. You are clearly paranoid if you see me as an Anti-Iberian or a threat. I live nowhere near Spain so what does it concern me with?

I have 7th generation Galician Spanish ancestry myself; that arrived in New Orleans from Tenerife, Canary Islands. So I do know a little bit about Iberian peninsula and it's history. (Aguiar which became French Aguillard - the ll's and d's are silent in French), they originally lived in a place called Pontevedra or something similar. My family had a mostly Catholic background; contrary to the English and German Protestants.
 
Melancon said:
There are no claims. What I say, is usually in perspectives and metaphors - There is a difference. I believe that Spain has a very interesting history. It seems that you are self-projecting your own insecurities onto other people. You are clearly paranoid if you see me as an Anti-Iberian or a threat. I live nowhere near Spain so what does it concern me with?

I have 7th generation Galician Spanish ancestry myself; that arrived in New Orleans from Tenerife, Canary Islands. So I do know a little bit about Iberian peninsula and it's history. (Aguiar which became French Aguillard - the ll's and d's are silent in French), they originally lived in a place called Pontevedra or something similar. My family had a mostly Catholic background; contrary to the English and German Protestants.
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You keep getting it backwards: people who come out of the blue and start manipulating sources and/or posting bizarre and absurd claims that have virtually no evidence to support them, in what has all the classic looks of purposely wanting to provoke others, are the ones projecting their own issues and insecurities, not the people who respond to such claims to set things in the proper perspective. You started the whole "southern Iberians look less European than the Lebanese and are the only people in Europe with Near Eastern DNA" thing, not me, not anyone else around here, so if anything it is you who is projecting your own issues and insecurities respecting that group that you are targeting. Accept responsibility for your own actions instead of absurdly trying to deny them.
 
Drac II said:
You keep getting it backwards: people who come out of the blue and start manipulating sources and/or posting bizarre and absurd claims that have virtually no evidence to support them, in what has all the classic looks of purposely wanting to provoke others, are the ones projecting their own issues and insecurities, not the people who respond to such claims to set things in the proper perspective. You started the whole "southern Iberians look less European than the Lebanese and are the only people in Europe with Near Eastern DNA" thing, not me, not anyone else around here, so if anything it is you who is projecting your own issues and insecurities respecting that group that you are targeting. Accept responsibility for your own actions instead of absurdly trying to deny them.
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you are seeing things that aren't there. i never had intentions to provoke anyone. and i will not apologize. i don't owe anyone anything. nobody cares except you, cause clearly you have an insecurity or inferiority complex, as LeBrok pointed out.
 
Drac II said:
You keep getting it backwards: people who come out of the blue and start manipulating sources and/or posting bizarre and absurd claims that have virtually no evidence to support them, in what has all the classic looks of purposely wanting to provoke others, are the ones projecting their own issues and insecurities, not the people who respond to such claims to set things in the proper perspective. You started the whole "southern Iberians look less European than the Lebanese and are the only people in Europe with Near Eastern DNA" thing, not me, not anyone else around here, so if anything it is you who is projecting your own issues and insecurities respecting that group that you are targeting. Accept responsibility for your own actions instead of absurdly trying to deny them.
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stop accusing me of things i haven't done. you don't even know me. sometimes i swear you are doing this on purpose to try and get me banned, and are playing the victim card. either that or you're just paranoid and insecure. either way, it doesnt matter. get the hint already.
 
Melancon said:
stop accusing me of things i haven't done. you don't even know me. sometimes i swear you are doing this on purpose to try and get me banned, and are playing the victim card. either that or you're just paranoid and insecure. either way, it doesnt matter. get the hint already.
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Anyone can plainly see what you did, your posts are there for all to see in both threads. Assume responsibility for what you write instead of trying to childishly deny everything and accuse others of having your own problems and issues.
 
This paper must be taken with caution; its goal is to check relatedness of surnames and Y-DNA, so they are not getting regional DNA samples; by that they are getting samples even from Latin America with Catalan surnames, of course they do the same in other Catalan-speaking regions (Valencia, Majorca)... so all DNA is blended. Moreover from 52 surnames three are from migrants (Gasco, Danes...) and 7 are supposedly of Arab origin: more care with such biased data (!).

As to get "ancient" results as to figure out how was late Roman Catalonia i got the results from Old Catalonia (the historical Christian counties, as to distinguish it from New Catalonia, the conquered Muslim lands of Lleida / Tarragona around 1100-1150), excluding also Barcelona by being a city which attracts immigration. Also biased data are keept out (foreign origin surnames as[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Salom, Gasull, Massot, Melis, Moragues, Nàcher, Maymó, Alemany, Danés, Guasch).[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]Doing so the "new" DNA carried by Arabs, Berbers, and Catalan/Frankish Christians in New Catalonia are mainly keept out.

C* : 3
-- E-V12 : 1
-- E-V13 : 23
-- E-V22 : 2
-- E-M81 : 5
-- E-M123 : 7
- G* : 1
- G2a-P15 : 27
- I1-M253* : 17
- I2-M26 : 19
-- I2-P215* : 5
-- I2-M223 : 12
-- I2-P37.2* : 4
--- I2-M26 : 21
--- I2-M423 : 1
- J1-M267* : 9
-- J1-P58 : 11
- J2a-M410* : 25
-- J2a-M67* : 27
-- J2a-M92 : 1
- J2b-M12 : 12
- R1a : 9 (R1a-SRY10831.2*)
- R1b : 7
- R1b-M343* : 9
--- R1b-U106* : 33
---- R1b-Z381 : 22
--- R1b-P312* : 84
---- R1b-L21* : 45
---- R1b-U152 : 42
---- R1b-Z195* : 29
----- R1b-SRY2627 : 64
----- R1b-Z220* : 57
------ R1b-Z278* : 17
------- R1b-M153 : 5
- R2 : 1
- T : 8
 
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That is (663 cases):[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 0,5% C; 6% E (3,5% E-V13); 4% G2a; 2,5% I1; I2 9,5% (3% I2-M26, 2% I2-M223; 3% I2-M26); 3% J1; 8% J2a; 2% J2b; 1,5% R1a; 62,5% R1b (5% R1b-U106*; 3,5% R1b-Z381; 12,5% R1b-P312*; 7% R1b-L21*; 6,5% R1b-U152; 4,5% R1b-Z195*; 9,5% R1b-SRY2627; 8,5% R1b-Z220*; 2,5% R1b-Z278*); 1% T[/FONT]
 
berun said:
- G* : 1
- G2a-P15 : 27
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Now thats interesting. P15 is not your Early Farmer type of G.

Contrary P15 is exactly the type which has been found in Alan/Sarmatian graves, beside R1a-z93 and J1-m267 (9), J2a(53) of course which also seem to be quite common. Would love to know what kind of R1a this is.

It so interesting because this is the dominant branch of G among them.

Than we have 17 samples of I1-M253 and 33 samples of R1b-U106, possibly of Gothic origin.


45 samples of R1b-L21 The Celtic lineage.

R1b- U152 definitely Roman and a good chunk of the J2 possibly too.
 
Alan said:
Now thats interesting. P15 is not your Early Farmer type of G.

Contrary P15 is exactly the type which has been found in Alan/Sarmatian graves, beside R1a-z93 and J1-m267 (9), J2a(53) of course which also seem to be quite common. Would love to know what kind of R1a this is.

It so interesting because this is the dominant branch of G among them.

Than we have 17 samples of I1-M253 and 33 samples of R1b-U106, possibly of Gothic origin.


45 samples of R1b-L21 The Celtic lineage.

R1b- U152 definitely Roman and a good chunk of the J2 possibly too.
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Alan, G2a = G-P15 (TMRCA 17400 ybp), an Early Farmer type. Those G found in Alans were also P15, indeed, but I think you meant P16 (now FGC693).

References:
http://www.marres.education/haplogroup_G.htm#note42
http://www.marres.education/alans.htm#dna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans#Genetics
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/ossetians.html
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpG.html
http://www.yfull.com/tree/G/
 
Carthage was a Phoenician colony. Barcelona was established by the Phoenecian family Barca. Hannibal was the son of the founder. Perfectly reasonable to assume those Phoenician/Carthaginian soldiers and sailors deposited their Y DNA in Catalonia.
 
e-v22 and e-v12 cases with catalan surnames from this paper

e-v22
CAR116 CAR Peri-Barcelona E-V22 LCAR04
CAR290 CAR Peri-Barcelona E-V22 LCAR04
MEL309 MEL Lleida E-V22 LMEL01
MEL803 MEL Peri-Barcelona E-V22 LMEL01
SOL808 SOL Múrcia E-V22 LSOL04
SOL128 SOL Andalusia E-V22 LSOL04


e-v12
NAD193 NAD Aragó E-V12 LNAD03
NAD795 NAD Aragó E-V12 LNAD03
NAD428 NAD Alacant E-V12 LNAD02
PON346 PON Peri-Barcelona E-V12 LPON02
PON540 PON Canàries E-V12 LPON02
PON622 PON Barcelona E-V12 LPON02
SER839 SER Lleida E-V12 LSER02
 
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