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Thread: New map of the Atlantic admixture (Eurogenes K15)

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    Post New map of the Atlantic admixture (Eurogenes K15)

    The autosomal analysis of Haak et al 2015 samples showed that Mesolithic Russian lacked the Atlantic admixture from Eurogenes K15 now found throughout Europe, even among Uralic speakers (Finns, Saami, Mordovians, Udmurts). Some Yamna genomes also lacked it, while others carried only a few per cents. Considering the major genetic impact that Yamna people had on the European population, it made me wonder who could have spread that Atlantic admixture after the Indo-European migrations.

    The Atlantic admixture is most common in regions associated with the Megalithic culture, including the Bell Beaker phenomenon. But its range is much wider than that.

    I have a hunch that it is linked to the diffusion of mtDNA V, which appears to have originated in Southwest Europe during the Mesolithic, but has never been found to date in any ancient sample (possibly in Neolithic Iberia in samples that were tested only for HVR1 and HVR2 and cannot distinguish between HV, H and V). There is also a strong correlation with mt-haplogroups H1 and H3, hence the choice of colour for the map.

    As you can see the so-called Atlantic admixture peaks in the Basque and neighbouring populations, followed by the Irish, Welsh and Scots. But apart from that it isn't really centred on the Atlantic. Galicians have less of it than Danes and North Germans. The high frequency in Sardinia, but much lower frequency in South Italy and the Balkans indicate a Mesolithic Western European ancestry.





    The Atlantic admixture appears to be a hybrid of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers and Neolithic farmers. All Mesolithic and Neolithic samples from Western Europe had about 25% of it. The only exception is for Mesolithic HG from Sweden (Motala) who had only 10%.

    Prehistoric samples
    Atlantic admixture
    Mesolithic La Braña (Asturias, Spain) 27.3%
    Mesolithic Loscbour (Luxembourg) 29.5%
    Neolithic farmer from Stuttgart (LBK culture) 23.2%
    Ötzi the Iceman (Chalcolithic farmer from the Alps) 25.5%
    Gökhem2 (Swedish Neolithic farmer) 27.7%
    Motala12 (Mesolithic HG from Sweden) 10.1%

    What is surprising is that the modern frequencies have hardly changed at all in the last 7000 years in all these regions (Sweden being intermediary between the two samples, but closer to the Neolithic), despite the Indo-European invasions.

    On the other hand, the Atlantic admixture appears to have spread eastward since the Bronze Age, as it was virtually absent from Russia even 4000 years ago.

    There hasn't been any major historical migrations from west to east in Europe. It has always been the other way round. Therefore the most likely explanation for its diffusion eastward is by intermarriage between neighbours (on the scale of several millennia) and minor migrations like that of medieval Germans to Poland, Romania and the Volga, or Swedish Vikings to Eastern Europe.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 20-12-16 at 00:27.
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    Really neat. Just researched my genome and came back with 30.06% Atlantic admixture using K15. About as much as the French and English populations. No surprise there.

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    Thanks Maciamo for this map.


    I think that the level of Atlantic is higher in Lower Normandy > 30 %
    Almost the same as in Lower Brittany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armoricain View Post
    Thanks Maciamo for this map.


    I think that the level of Atlantic is higher in Lower Normandy > 30 %
    Almost the same as in Lower Brittany
    Thanks for letting me know. I'll update the map.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have a hunch that it is linked to the diffusion of mtDNA V, which appears to have originated in Southwest Europe during the Mesolithic, but has never been found to date in any ancient sample (possibly in Neolithic Iberia in samples that were tested only for HVR1 and HVR2 and cannot distinguish between HV, H and V). There is also a strong correlation with mt-haplogroups H1 and H3, hence the choice of colour for the map.

    As you can see the so-called Atlantic admixture peaks in the Basque and neighbouring populations, followed by the Irish, Welsh and Scots. But apart from that it isn't really centred on the Atlantic. Galicians have less of it than Danes and North Germans. The high frequency in Sardinia, but much lower frequency in South Italy and the Balkans indicate a Mesolithic Western European ancestry.
    Haplogroup V peaks in North West Africa and Finland. So that once against suggests a North African route of R1b. Most traces of this migration would have been erased by the desertification of the Sahara. An eastward diffusion can be explained by a large North African population with Egyptian technology pouring into Iberia.

    If your map is including haplogroup V your data is definitely questionable for Morocco. Of course all current maps suffer from poor sample size but it seems to me the 23andme data is the most objective.

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    This Atlantic component is definitely post Bronze age merge of pred ENF with some WHG.
    Last edited by Alan; 05-03-15 at 02:07.

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    This test is based on modern people. What ancient people score should be taken as a sign that they share sometype of relation to the modern people it exists in. Atlantic being as popular in La Brana-1 as in modern Spanish means almost nothing. There is no Eurogenes K15 Atlantic continuation. I know you know this Maciamo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    Haplogroup V peaks in North West Africa and Finland. So that once against suggests a North African route of R1b. Most traces of this migration would have been erased by the desertification of the Sahara. An eastward diffusion can be explained by a large North African population with Egyptian technology pouring into Iberia.

    If your map is including haplogroup V your data is definitely questionable for Morocco. Of course all current maps suffer from poor sample size but it seems to me the 23andme data is the most objective.
    please, mt DNA is not Y DNA and the distributions of mt-V and Y-R1b are not of the same scale - Y-R1b in western Europe is not R-V88 descendant too -
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    This test is based on modern people. What ancient people score should be taken as a sign that they share sometype of relation to the modern people it exists in. Atlantic being as popular in La Brana-1 as in modern Spanish means almost nothing. There is no Eurogenes K15 Atlantic continuation. I know you know this Maciamo.

    If I understand you well, there is not gain to compare ANE or WHG in modern populations because ANE or WHG are ancient...? sharing is sharing, the only question is what elements of the diverse poolings are shared and if the ancient region of highest weight of a component was the today correspondant region, it's my point -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The autosomal analysis of Haak et al 2015 samples showed that Mesolithic Russian lacked the Atlantic admixture from Eurogenes K15 now found throughout Europe, even among Uralic speakers (Finns, Saami, Mordovians, Udmurts). Some Yamna genomes also lacked it, while others carried only a few per cents. Considering the major genetic impact that Yamna people had on the European population, it made me wonder who could have spread that Atlantic admixture after the Indo-European migrations.

    The Atlantic admixture is most common in regions associated with the Megalithic culture, including the Bell Beaker phenomenon. But its range is much wider than that.

    I have a hunch that it is linked to the diffusion of mtDNA V, which appears to have originated in Southwest Europe during the Mesolithic, but has never been found to date in any ancient sample (possibly in Neolithic Iberia in samples that were tested only for HVR1 and HVR2 and cannot distinguish between HV, H and V). There is also a strong correlation with mt-haplogroups H1 and H3, hence the choice of colour for the map.

    As you can see the so-called Atlantic admixture peaks in the Basque and neighbouring populations, followed by the Irish, Welsh and Scots. But apart from that it isn't really centred on the Atlantic. Galicians have less of it than Danes and North Germans. The high frequency in Sardinia, but much lower frequency in South Italy and the Balkans indicate a Mesolithic Western European ancestry.





    The Atlantic admixture appears to be a hybrid of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers and Neolithic farmers. All Mesolithic and Neolithic samples from Western Europe had about 25% of it. The only exception is for Mesolithic HG from Sweden (Motala) who had only 10%.

    Prehistoric samples
    Atlantic admixture
    Mesolithic La Braña (Asturias, Spain) 27.3%
    Mesolithic Loscbour (Luxembourg) 29.5%
    Neolithic farmer from Stuttgart (LBK culture) 23.2%
    Ötzi the Iceman (Chalcolithic farmer from the Alps) 25.5%
    Gökhem2 (Swedish Neolithic farmer) 27.7%
    Motala12 (Mesolithic HG from Sweden) 10.1%

    What is surprising is that the modern frequencies have hardly changed at all in the last 7000 years in all these regions (Sweden being intermediary between the two samples, but closer to the Neolithic), despite the Indo-European invasions.

    On the other hand, the Atlantic admixture appears to have spread eastward since the Bronze Age, as it was virtually absent from Russia even 4000 years ago.

    There hasn't been any major historical migrations from west to east in Europe. It has always been the other way round. Therefore the most likely explanation for its diffusion eastward is by intermarriage between neighbours (on the scale of several millennia) and minor migrations like that of medieval Germans to Poland, Romania and the Volga, or Swedish Vikings to Eastern Europe.
    So if the Adlantic Admixture peaks in Basque, what is the admixture of the Basque?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    Haplogroup V peaks in North West Africa and Finland. So that once against suggests a North African route of R1b. Most traces of this migration would have been erased by the desertification of the Sahara. An eastward diffusion can be explained by a large North African population with Egyptian technology pouring into Iberia.

    If your map is including haplogroup V your data is definitely questionable for Morocco. Of course all current maps suffer from poor sample size but it seems to me the 23andme data is the most objective.
    That's not correct. Haplogroup HV0 peaks in North Africa. In Finland or Lapland there is no HV0 whatsoever, only V. Besides, Finnish people have a very average 7% of haploroup V, and it is mostly the Northeast European V1a1a, with a bit of V7a and V8. The Saami, who live in the far north of Finland, Norway and Sweden, have 42% of haplogroup V, but all of it is V5, an entirely different variety from the Finns or Scandinavians, and one that isn't found in southern Europe or North Africa either.

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    to Maciamo:
    OK for the downstreams of mt-V - but genetics is dynamics: all of these V 1/2/3/.../10/... have some common ancestorS, the question is to find who, when and where and where through... no barriers here - (just for the logic, I'm not contesting you) -

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    Sorry, it's not new, but I think this 'atlantic' component contains some >10-<20% (calculated by my nose) of 'cro-magnoids' and other WHG lignages + pre-Neolithic first western 'mediterraneans' which doesn't exclude previous far ancestral links between Cro-M. WHGs and pre-NeoL...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I am wondering what population was the source of this admixture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    That's not correct. Haplogroup HV0 peaks in North Africa. In Finland or Lapland there is no HV0 whatsoever, only V. Besides, Finnish people have a very average 7% of haploroup V, and it is mostly the Northeast European V1a1a, with a bit of V7a and V8. The Saami, who live in the far north of Finland, Norway and Sweden, have 42% of haplogroup V, but all of it is V5, an entirely different variety from the Finns or Scandinavians, and one that isn't found in southern Europe or North Africa either.
    Haplogroup V reaches 15% in NW Africa according to 23andme, with Finnish regions getting close to 50%. Could be 23andme is wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    Haplogroup V reaches 15% in NW Africa according to 23andme, with Finnish regions getting close to 50%. Could be 23andme is wrong.
    23andme hasn't had an update on haplogroup history since around 2010 so the information is kind of out of date

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    to Maciamo:
    OK for the downstreams of mt-V - but genetics is dynamics: all of these V 1/2/3/.../10/... have some common ancestorS, the question is to find who, when and where and where through... no barriers here - (just for the logic, I'm not contesting you) -
    The most likely scenario in my eyes is that haplogroup HV0 came from the Middle East to Northwest Africa with Neolithic herders or farmers, then entered Iberia around the 7th or 6th millennium BCE. Haplogroup V would have appeared in Northwest Africa, but through a founder effect would have really thrived in Iberia during the Neolithic. It would then have spread to Western Europe and Scandinavia with the Megalithic and Bell Beaker cultures, alongside mtDNA H1 and H3. The TMRCA for haplogroup V is very young - only about 10,000 years (8000 BCE).

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    Finns seem to have also HV0a1 which according to Wikipediais a sister branch of V. Familytree reports two HV0a1 sequences from Finland (inlandareas).

    According to ”Mitochondrial DNA sequence variation inFinnish patients with matrilineal diabetes mellitus”, the Finnish HV0/V haplotypesare HV0a, V5, V7a, V8, V1a.

    (Figure 1, http://www.biomedcentral.com/content...0500-5-350.pdf)

    17-18th century Sámi samples (Chalmny-Varre) had a highfrequency of V7a. (https://digital.library.adelaide.edu.../1/02whole.pdf)


    The mtDNA study on Tatar mtDNA is interesting in thisrespect as they say that ”we analyzed 32 published haplogroup V mitochondrialgenomes from populations of Finns and Saami and three novel genomes frompopulations of Russians and Czechs. As a result, we have found that threemtDNAs of Tatars fall into subcluster V1a that is very frequent among Finns. Itis noteworthy that Tatars and Finns share mtDNAs from this subcluster on alarge time span—from 7.9 and 2.8 ka ago (for complete genome and synonymousrates, respectively) for subcluster V1a to 0.85 ka ago and even less (forcomplete genome and synonymous rates) for small subcluster V1a1a1 (table 3). Inaddition, analysis of subcluster V3a demonstrates that divergence betweenRussian/Finnish mtDNAs is estimated as 4.8 and 7.9 ka ago (for complete genomeand synonymous rates, respectively).
    Based on complete mtDNA variation of eastern Europeans (for40 mitochondrial genomes from populations of Finns, Saami, Tatars, Russians,and Czechs), haplogroup HV0a dates to 14.5 ka ago, fitting the time ofexpansion from European glacial refuge zones (the Franco-Cantabrian, Balkan,and Ukrainian ones). Meanwhile, haplogroup V (39 genomes of eastern Europeans)dates to 11.8 ka ago for complete genome rate and to 6.9 ka ago for synonymousrate, that is, somewhat less than previously reported dating results forhaplogroup V in Europe—13.7 (12.1–15.2) ka ago for complete genome rate and12.2 (10.0–14.3) ka ago for synonymous rate (Soares et al. 2009).”
    (http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/10/2220.full)
    It is interesting that HV0 is so frequent in Eastern Europeconsidering its postulated origin in Western Europe. According to the Tatar paper, the age of V3ais quite old in Eastern Europe (divergence between Russian/Finnish clusters is 4.8-7.9ka).

    The frequency of HV0 (including V) in Volga-Ural is thefollowing: Mari 11, Chuvash 7.3, Karelians 6.5, Tatars 5.1/3.9, Russians 5.0, Mordvine4.9, Bashkirs 3.2.
    By the way, preV seems to have been detected also in ancientHungarians with a frequency of 3.9%.


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    Just ran K15, I seem to get 20% Atlantic, quite high for a full Ashkenazi.



    Population
    North_Sea 8.44%
    Atlantic 19.52%
    Baltic 4.00%
    Eastern_Euro 1.99%
    West_Med 14.60%
    West_Asian 16.32%
    East_Med 26.20%
    Red_Sea 6.79%
    South_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian 0.62%
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.29%
    Northeast_African 1.24%
    Sub-Saharan -

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    @John Doe:
    And what is the typical result for an Askenazi on K15?
    I find it very weird that you only have 2% Eastern Euro,should't Askenazi have more of that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    @John Doe:
    And what is the typical result for an Askenazi on K15?
    I find it very weird that you only have 2% Eastern Euro,should't Askenazi have more of that?

    Indeed, even I have more of it (5,5%). But his North Sea is higher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    @John Doe:
    And what is the typical result for an Askenazi on K15?
    I find it very weird that you only have 2% Eastern Euro,should't Askenazi have more of that?
    Ashkenazis are supposed to get around 10% Atlantic on K15. I think they're supposed to get 5% east Euro.

  23. #23
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    Hay Maciamo; or any others who can fill me in on this.


    I noticed you mentioned in your Haplogroup R1B report that the Paleolithic R1B people aka Mammoth Hunters had the mtdna markers of U5 and V also shared with Uralic tribes and Mesolithic Europeans. I'm also intrigued that Mtdna Haplogroup U5 and V have ancestral ties to the Middle east; Mtdna U and HV yet I'm supposedly getting 30.5% Atlantic Dna/Mtdna V clan as a Celto-Germanic and I would like to get enlighten on this matter if that is okay with you


    Do you know if par chance if some of the Grevitian culture woman decided to ditch their Haplogroup IJ husbands to hit on the R1B people for their ability to hunt Mammoth or were the Mammoth hunters prehistoric Casanova pirates sacking haplotypes I men tribes and taking the woman as companions?


    I find the first option most likely but I wanted to make sure with you. Almost a third of my ancestry;30.5% is under the Atlantic mixture according to K15.

    Thank you so much for posting this map btw :).
    Last edited by Twilight; 06-03-15 at 23:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Indeed, even I have more of it (5,5%). But his North Sea is higher.
    Maybe that's because AJs had a larger, more significant and longer contact with populations possessing higher NS admixture than Kurds, and Kurds had a more significant contact with populations possessing higher eastern European admixture than AJs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Maybe that's because AJs had a larger, more significant and longer contact with populations possessing higher NS admixture than Kurds, and Kurds had a more significant contact with populations possessing higher eastern European admixture than AJs.
    I think North Sea and East European are two sides of the same medal. So we should see them as one. Ashkenazis are heavily admixed with East European genes. So naturally taken both components together they should have more of it. Most of their East European DNA is probably North Sea like.

    And most of AJ European genes seem to be in Atlantic and West Med component. I have almost no Atlantic. And less West Med but suprisingly more East Med. Also I have some of the ANI/South Asian (Gedrosia/West Asian) genes just like Yamna.


    Here are my results => http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post451225
    Last edited by Alan; 07-03-15 at 07:20.

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