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Thread: Austeravia, Elektriden and E-V22

  1. #1
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    Austeravia, Elektriden and E-V22


    A boldhypothesis .... or fiction ?It is awell-known theory of Steve S. Bird that haplogroup E-V13 in Wales and Englandis partly introduced by the Romans. But what about E-V22?
    For E-V22 there isoften made a connection with the Phoenicians. This was an old seafaring peoplen (at their peak from 1550 to 300 BC) whichemerged from the Levant in the entire coastal area and the Mediterraneanislands. They are often associated with the spread of E-V22 from the Levant tothe rest of the Mediterranean. Or as Eupedia states: "The Phoenicianscould have disseminated E-V22 to Sicily, Sardinia, southern Spain and theMaghreb."
    But did theremain only in de Mediterranean? Noprobably not, because the Phoenicians had an active trade with North WestEurope. They focused on two things: tinand to the very exclusive and expensive amber. The prices of amber were so highthat it sometimes happened that the price of a piece of amber was the same asthe price of a slave and that amber sometimes had a higher value than gold.
    Tin was derivedfrom England. In Caldwell et al 'The Early Jews and Muslimsin England and Wales: A Genetic and Genealogical History' (2014) is explained thatthe Phoenicians set foot on English shore to get some tin out of the Cornwellarea. Findings of skulls of monkeys from North Africa has showen that there was more than just tin trade andthat there was probably a trading post or colonia.
    But for theexclusive amber the Phoenicians went to: Friesland (Frisia). Amber was found on the North Sea Coast. In the recordednaming you can recognize this. For the Isle of Ameland or Oostergo (where my Y-DNA roots lie)the Romans spoke about “Austeravia”. And in Danish rav is still equal to amber. And until today you can find amber stone on Ameland (recently a stone of of5,5 kilogram). The Greeks used for amber the term elektron. The name “Elektriden” was used for the Frisian area. In2006 John Richter reconstructed the ancient amber trade route, Friesland was apart of it!
    Steve Bird(of the Roman E-V13 theory) stated in2007 on E-V22 and England: "The Phoenicians traded May tin in Cornwall near Penzance. I for one thinkThat subclade E-V12 (E3b1a1) or V22 (E3b1a3) might well have arrived with them." Why would that be limited to the tin mines (Cornwell) in England and not for the Phoenicians may be much more interesting amber area in Friesland?
    PS I don’t dare any risk calculation on my YDNA with ahigh child (/boys) dead rate in ancient times, all kinds of migrations and theBlack Death ;)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    E-V13 was surely present in Britain well before the Romans and even the Celts got there. It came to the British Isles during the Neolithic. This is probably true for V12 and V22. The best proof is that all of them are also found throughout Ireland. Besides, E-V13 has been confirmed in Early Neolithic Spain (alongside I2a, G2a and R1b1*), and the Megalithic culture had strong connections between Spain and the British Isles. E-V12, E-V13, E-V22, I2a-M26, G2a and R1b-P25 are all found in Ireland, Highland Scotland, Wales, Brittany and Iberia.

    If you want to look for Roman ancestry in Britain, don't look at Wales, but at places where Romans actually had a sizeable presence, which is mostly the South (from Devon to Essex) and places like Lincoln and York. Btw, the Romans belonged mostly to R1b-U152, G2a and J2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    E-V13 was surely present in Britain well before the Romans and even the Celts got there. It came to the British Isles during the Neolithic. This is probably true for V12 and V22. The best proof is that all of them are also found throughout Ireland.
    @Maciamo Yes, but the this can also count for the English neigbours on the other side of the Noth Sea: Frisia. The place where theu coul find the coveted Amber! A novite!?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Maciamo

    v22 g
    rew up with r1b in true Hittites and north syria to africa not old in africa same v12 also v12 you can see v32 somali come from v12 in egypt to sudan like that

    you Must know the difference between r1b in north europe and r1b in turkey near east africa same that btween r1a in russia and r1a in india

    Different civilizations thise haplogroups not young age

    You will find a mutation separates them Divided between r1b germans and r1b near east same that in r1a

    But beware you can see near east r1b in west europe and south maybe also in north come with m123 of across the Mediterranean Not before the era of the Phoenicians

    I've said it in the past r1b old than other haplogroups under f in near east z830 home no j1 no j2 no t Except g He first lived with e1b1b1 g far even in f tree but Scandinavian team wants to be ind-europian

    haplogroup r not ind-europian is siberian

    indo-europian 90% haplogroup I

    near east R-Y7771* with african thise snp 5000 years It remains now their ancestors in Turkey you need to focus on v88/PF6279

    The peace treaty between Ramses II and the Hittites make R-Y7771* and v22 Find a foothold in Africa


    Fulani of Niger example

    Especially when Hittites alliance with Ramses family

    Butter of this


    Who came from Siberia to Europe PF6531

    Who came from Siberia to turkey come btween tow sea PF6279


    Old predecessor in russia and sebria haplogroup r home PF6242



    If you do you rely on the Scandinavian team

    Will not advance a step forward

    He racist and a failed team

    you and r1b people Did not benefit from any study of r1b and More of studies There is no little benefit Still does not know

    Because the team failed and exclusionary

    Wants to be ind-europe in any way

    http://www.astanatimes.com/2015/02/s...azakhstan-dna/

    Can not be excluded IJ who born in india

    I am interested in ainu people haplogroup D before indo-europe in Caucasus and areas there

    But I will not let thise team to make haplogroup R indo-europe

    They do not rely now on R1b

    Rely on r1a

    but r1a Did not come before 5000 to 6000 years from Siberia to India and other south asian areas in order to return to Europe

    and the other thing they came to these areas afrer indo went to europe

    You will not find a mutation combines indians and neighboring areas with Europeans but you muttation combines indians and neighboring areas

    I hate this team made me slave

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...arab-dane.html

    I found racist responses from r1b people about thise study Someone say will left blonde hair and color eyse

    Well say that to Cameroons r1b They left blonde hair and color eyse and white skin They have been in the past blonde hair and color eyse and white skin

    are we claimed that this our homes

    If we say that we will be crazy

    But we have history there

    For example,

    Who came to germans with Christianity from my home and not catholic but Arianism

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

    Is this the graves of the Roman ?

    not graves of roman but but with viking and german

    This child was on the other side not with roman side

    and Romans history But not in this case

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    there is no proof whatsoever of Phoenicians trading in the Atlantic beyond southern Portugal
    what other proof than some monkey skulls and some vocabulary does Caldwell present?
    the amber trade since 4 ka along European rivers is well documented, not along the Atlantic coast

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    z830
    MtDNA haplogroup
    R0a

    Country: Egypt



    E-V13 The only haplogroup born in Europe

    becouse V13 in spain graves 7000 years and v13 ancestory is L618 in anatolian

    Z1920 ancestory L618 and v22 we can say to thise branch northy mean north syria

    Z1902 ancestory v12 and v65 we can say to thise branch southy mean south syria

    But there is a big possibility that the v65 come to north africa and south europe come with Ottomans frome turky

    Representation in North Africa is very very small more than r1b and v22 for example

    we can not link it with his brother v12 becouse v32 son of v12 his age more than 5000 years when he born in sudan or south egypt

    but m78 will be northy north syria

    and z827 ancestory m123 and m81 southy south syria

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    there is no proof whatsoever of Phoenicians trading in the Atlantic beyond southern Portugal
    what other proof than some monkey skulls and some vocabulary does Caldwell present?
    the amber trade since 4 ka along European rivers is well documented, not along the Atlantic coast
    Bedouin Canaanites, Phoenicians is m34 l791 not m84

    is new under 3000 years in europe

    Anyone who claims that his haplogroup 100% europe he need one of tow

    1- old graves
    2- old snp Mutation of their own

    v13 has thise tow

    To which they apply Specifications haplogroups in graves with v13 part of G and part of I

    for example j2 in europe if has snp with persian in 4000 or 5000 or 6000 years persian home of j2 akhmignon in south europe

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    Attachment 10689

    Attachment 10690

    Attachment 10691

    These documents reveal my results through Gdematch. I try to analyze them to find out what the origin of the arrival of V22 may be. Someone told me that I am an E-V22 mixed with Indo-Europeans, but where does my E-V22 come from?


    I see that in cheese I have a 2'25 of Africa and Iran-Mesolitic a 1`36.


    My intuition tells me that the percentage of Africa can be very old, 6000 years maybe? Maybe it's not V-22 and it's another E. I'm also a match for DNA AND someone from Iran.


    I ask: If in Neolithic Greek I have an 84'47, could not my V-22 be at that time in Greece? since Basal I have 10'65


    It is a hypothesis at the moment. How do you see Northerer as we are separated brothers at birth? I hope a reply otherwise you have a long time to see these graphics.

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    It may have come to Europe at least in the Roman era

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    It may have come to Europe at least in the Roman era

  11. #11
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    nMontes
    pen0-

    [1] "distancia% = 0.4171"

    X

    French_Basque, 44.6
    Orcadian, 25.8
    Sardinian, 18.4
    Ossetian, 7.4
    Somali, 3.6
    Evens, 0.2

    pen0.001-
    [1] "distance% = 0.5924"

    pen0.001-
    [1] "distance% = 0.5924"

    X

    Spanish_Cantabria, 86.4
    French_Basque, 7.6
    Francés, 1.8
    Orcadian, 1
    Southwest_English, 1
    Afghan_Uzbeki, 0.2
    Chechen, 0.2
    Ethiopian_Anuak, 0.2
    Ethiopian_Oromo, 0.2
    Hadjar, 0.2
    Kanjar, 0.2
    North_Dutch, 0.2
    North_Ossetian, 0.2
    San, 0.2
    Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha, 0.2
    Sudanese, 0.2

    pen0.01-
    1 distancia% = 0.5738 "

    X

    Spanish_Cantabria, 89,8
    French_Basque, 5,8
    Balkar, 0,6
    francés, 0,6
    checheno, 0,4
    Southwest_English, 0,4
    Afghan_Pashtun, 0,2
    Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator, 0,2
    Evenki, 0,2
    Hadza, 0,2
    irlandés, 0,2
    North_Ossetian, 0,2
    South_Dutch, 0,2
    Southeast_English, 0,2
    Spanish_Cataluna, 0,2
    tabassaran, 0,2
    West_Norwegian , 0.2
    West_Scottish, 0.2







    Many of my results.
    Where are the Phoenicians?


    I never quite convinced that enclosure of V22 in the Phoenicians and little else. With the Romans it is also possible but there must be even more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post





    nMontes
    pen0-

    [1] "distancia% = 0.4171"

    X

    French_Basque, 44.6
    Orcadian, 25.8
    Sardinian, 18.4
    Ossetian, 7.4
    Somali, 3.6
    Evens, 0.2

    pen0.001-
    [1] "distance% = 0.5924"

    pen0.001-
    [1] "distance% = 0.5924"

    X

    Spanish_Cantabria, 86.4
    French_Basque, 7.6
    Francés, 1.8
    Orcadian, 1
    Southwest_English, 1
    Afghan_Uzbeki, 0.2
    Chechen, 0.2
    Ethiopian_Anuak, 0.2
    Ethiopian_Oromo, 0.2
    Hadjar, 0.2
    Kanjar, 0.2
    North_Dutch, 0.2
    North_Ossetian, 0.2
    San, 0.2
    Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha, 0.2
    Sudanese, 0.2

    pen0.01-
    1 distancia% = 0.5738 "

    X

    Spanish_Cantabria, 89,8
    French_Basque, 5,8
    Balkar, 0,6
    francés, 0,6
    checheno, 0,4
    Southwest_English, 0,4
    Afghan_Pashtun, 0,2
    Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator, 0,2
    Evenki, 0,2
    Hadza, 0,2
    irlandés, 0,2
    North_Ossetian, 0,2
    South_Dutch, 0,2
    Southeast_English, 0,2
    Spanish_Cataluna, 0,2
    tabassaran, 0,2
    West_Norwegian , 0.2
    West_Scottish, 0.2







    Many of my results.
    Where are the Phoenicians?


    I never quite convinced that enclosure of V22 in the Phoenicians and little else. With the Romans it is also possible but there must be even more.
    @Carlos I reject my wild theory from a few years ago. I guess E-V22 could have had a relationship with Neolithic Farmer. Spreading from the Levant through the Med. Sea. Phoenicians could tributed also. Many options. Buth E-V22 developed not on the Balkan but in Egypt Carlos. That line on the map is more related to the development of E-V13.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoeni...e_Holdings.png

    How it landed in Friesland? Mysterious. May be with a Neolithic Farmer stream also. But would be a statistical miracle. But who knows. A medieval connection? Until I have a match it stays a totally miracle (as said only two samples from indigenous family's in Netherlands above the Rhine).

    Your E-V22 makes more sense, it's seldom but not rare in the Med. world.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I know that V22 was developed in Egypt imagine if at this point I did not know it. But the question is how and where it takes roads in Europe. Perhaps with the BigY 700 many cases could be clarified. Sooner or later you will know.

    I do not see that it has to make more sense to me with all the movements that have been, the proof is in its own case and those that do not know each other yet.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    http://sciencenordic.com/danish-bron...s-traced-egypt

    Danish Bronze Age glass beads traced to Egypt

    Analyses of glass beads found in Denmark give us new knowledge of Bronze Age trade routes.

    Globalisation in the Bronze Age

    Twenty-three glass beads from Denmark were analysed using plasma-spectrometry. Without destroying the fragile beads, this technique makes it possible to compare the chemical composition of trace elements in the beads with reference material from Amarna in Egypt and Nippur in Mesopotamia, about 50 km south east of Baghdad in Iraq. The comparison showed that the chemical composition of the two sets of trace elements match.


    The women from the Ølby site. The site was excavated in 1880 by Sophus Müller. Next to the woman's left arm was a blue glass bead (from Egypt), two amber beads, and two small bronze spirals.

    Nordic and Egyptian sun cults traded goods

    One property that both glass and amber have is that sunlight penetrates their surface.
    It appears that glass and amber beads have been found together on sites from the Middle East, Turkey, Greece, Italy, and Germany to the Nordic latitudes.
    The archaeologists believe this could be proof of a link between the Egyptian sun cult and the Nordic sun cult.
    When a Danish woman in the Bronze Age took a piece of jewellery made of amber and blue glass with her to the grave, it constituted a prayer to the sun to ensure that she would be re-united with it and share her fate with the sun's on its eternal journey.
    The old amber route to the countries in the Mediterranean thus now has a counterpart: the glass route to the North.
    So far, the researchers have shown that there was a trade connection to Egypt and Mesopotamia in the years 1400-1100 BC. Finding out whether the route continued in the later Bronze Age is a future task for the Danish-French research team.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    According to the data we are obtaining these days it is plausible to think that trade and cultural exchanges could have led to a genetic exchange if not on a population scale as well as exceptional and personal cases.

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    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Last edited by Carlos; 08-11-19 at 21:49.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I imagine that at this point in history you will know, but also the public for users who in the future seek information about dad's haplogroup.


    Map of the ancient E found in Europe and other parts.




    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6712500005&z=4

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