DNA links pensioner with roman soldiers from kosovo

[Melancon]

If you look at some of the threads, the way they argue. anything that Albanians are not indigenous. Even though I present them with evidence... its not about ethnic Albania, its the fact that we are indigenous more than south slavs. I don't think you even read what I wrote, I2a cannot be illyrian. I know they carry EV-13, r1b, J2 because they asimilated some illyrians and thracians or raped the women, Albanians are majorly EV-13 and J2, and R1b... very little i2a and r1a... the kosovar albanians have barely i2a or r1a (slavic associated genes)... While they have our genes, and i2a and r1a... so you tell me? We came from mars?

Here is another picture, Albania is a made up country, there existed no albania... created in 1912, we always lived outside these places before slavs came... So you tell me how did we get locked? Make up a theory. If we are not Illyrians/thracians?We came from mars? All around us are slavs, created by the Serbian empire and Bulgarian empire.

They may be indigenous; but at some point they may have also migrated to the region as a tribe. Probably from the East. Your problem isn't mine and neither is it anyone else's here on Eupedia.

Your account is a bit suspicious; and I am wondering if you are King Bardhyl under a different account and internet protocol.

 

[Besa]

They may be indigenous; but at some point they may have also migrated to the region as a tribe. Probably from the East. Your problem isn't mine and neither is it anyone else's here on Eupedia.

Your account is a bit suspicious; and I am wondering if you are King Bardhyl under a different account and internet protocol.

I'm no king bardhyl. Why would they of immigrated? because you want it to be that way? How did they immigrate there? Weren't there any people living there? They were there still before slavs, how else did they get locked? same regions where they lived. this is proven by the latin loan words. they lived in these regions during roman era, before slavs came, and in these regions lived illyrians and thracians, and celts who were under roman conquest.

 

[Besa]

Albanians where gifted the lands by the Romans................what bring up modern issues

who really cares if the map isn't right? (which it actually is)

but the whole point is how did they get locked? montengro is a country created by the slavic empires, so is every other slavic country in the balkans, all these lands were conquered, how did Albanians immigrate to where they are? haha, we were gifted the lands by the romans? Show me historical evidence? There lived Illyrians and thracians in these lands during roman time, dardania for example, there were thracians and illyrians, many known emperors. This is what I'm talking about. you need to sort your issues out, not me... show me there were a different people living there who were given land by the romans?

IT was SLAVS who were invited by the romans to CROATIA and BOSNIA

I'm starting to think you're a greek/slav living in kangaroo land, who do you think you are to tell us we are not from balkan? we speak a language that came from balkan, you speak a language from poland... do I need to say more? you came here, your ass speaks slav, you locked us, took our lands.

 

[Besa]

I didn't claim; it was only a hypothesis based on ... HISTORICAL RECORDS.

Show me, these HISTORICAL RECORDS? because most of the people living in these regions during roman era (before proto serb and croat immigration) there lived Dardanians-Illyrians-Thracians mostly in these regions. who were under roman empire. you had illyricum, epirus nova, roman dardania etc. So they must of asimilated the population? and kept calling themselves the same?

It's funny, how the people who most likey speak a illyrian-thracian language, and are locked by slavs; are the doubted ones, while romanians speak latin, south slavs speak slavic... hmmm.. it looks like you have a problem with Albanians, looks like you need to sort your issues out. Albanians are the surviving thrako-illyrians. It isn't my fault that you don't like it, you need to sort your issues out, you know... supporting one people, and having hatred for others is what controls your opinion.. you need to push that aside and be honest with yourself. no wonder this ''king bardhyl'' got banned its like talking to a bunch of douchebags.

It's already been said, by ken nordtvedt, i2a is from a migration to the balkans ca.2000 years old.. and he is right on the spot.

by the way, bardhyl is from illyrian barde, which meant white, which means the same in albanian. Did he tell you that? There are more linguistical connections both with thracian-illyrian and albanian than there is with any other language in the balkans... i've already posted a document thracian-dacian similar words and a list of illyrian words. even if you claim, ''it didn't derive from it'' there are more connections than your south slavic & latin languages.

 

[Besa]

How could all slavic countries magically of been slavicized? still majorly carrying ''illyrian/thracian'' genes, yet the more from croatia you go, the more i2a diminishes? South slavs are people who always were slavs, they just found another identity and steal it because it suits their interests.

You're just trying to steal our history, our lands, wipe us off the map, like we came from somewhere else when there is enough historical record of you coming here, i've already posted that... you need to sort your issues out, even the owner of this site is in on it? He even claims r1a in greek macedonia is from ancient greeks, do you even read history? The proto slavs (r1a carriers), first immigration of slavs, sclaveni and antes, plundered that region and slavs even settled there, the r1a is from them... Your opinions are just based on the way you want it to be. The same about Albanians... sort your issues out.

 

[Besa]

all Nationalistic crap .............go read up on the differences of Illyrians and thracians

The albanians should count themselves very lucky, they have a country, there are Kurds who are a much older race that still do not have a country

You're funny, south-slavs should count themselves lucky they even get to live in the balkans, because last time i checked there were no slavic speakers in the balkans before roman empire.. Albanians are an older race than south slavs. probably the oldest race in the balkans. How else did they get locked?, they speak a non-greek language (mostly tosks are influenced), non-slavic, yet carry the same haplogroups as greeks? same mythology, allot of similar culture... similar to other paleo-balkanic people (illyrians, thracians, dacians) but are locked between greeks and slavs... They carry high E and J2 and low i2a and r1a (especially gegs) which shows they didn't come from the north... The geographic location of them being locked shows it, their language shows it, do I need to say more? It shows they came here before YOU! And you're just mad about it... that's your problem, but you need to respect it.

thracians and illyrians, they carried the same haplogroups. there is even a branch proposed thrako-illyrian.

 

[Melancon]

You're funny, south-slavs should count themselves lucky they even get to live in the balkans, because last time i checked there were no slavic speakers in the balkans before roman empire.. Albanians are an older race than south slavs. probably the oldest race in the balkans. How else did they get locked?, they speak a non-greek language (mostly tosks are influenced), non-slavic, yet carry the same haplogroups as greeks? same mythology, allot of similar culture... similar to other paleo-balkanic people (illyrians, thracians, dacians) but are locked between greeks and slavs... They carry high E and J2 and low i2a and r1a (especially gegs) which shows they didn't come from the north... The geographic location of them being locked shows it, their language shows it, do I need to say more? It shows they came here before YOU!

thracians and illyrians, they carried the same haplogroups. there is even a branch proposed thrako-illyrian.

We are not Slavic people. At least I am not. And Eupedia also cannot help you with your nationalist issues here.

 

[Besa]

We are not Slavic people. At least I am not. And Eupedia also cannot help you with your nationalist issues here.

answer all the points I brought up and then we can talk, stop saying I have issues, it's quite the opposite. I'm just telling the truth. Trying to open your eyes a little bit... instead of having hatred for people who are older than your ''race'', the oldest race in the balkans you actually think if illyrians were i2a they would of lived in the balkans before ancient greeks? didn't they immigrate? I mean they were greek neighbors... there would be much higher i2a among greeks, and even Albanians since they live there, but hey, they share the same haplogroups with these ''albanians'', except for slavic associated genes.

Sort your issues out, then we can talk history.

 

[Sile]

You're funny, south-slavs should count themselves lucky they even get to live in the balkans, because last time i checked there were no slavic speakers in the balkans before roman empire.. Albanians are an older race than south slavs. probably the oldest race in the balkans. How else did they get locked?, they speak a non-greek language (mostly tosks are influenced), non-slavic, yet carry the same haplogroups as greeks? same mythology, allot of similar culture... similar to other paleo-balkanic people (illyrians, thracians, dacians) but are locked between greeks and slavs... They carry high E and J2 and low i2a and r1a (especially gegs) which shows they didn't come from the north... The geographic location of them being locked shows it, their language shows it, do I need to say more? It shows they came here before YOU! And you're just mad about it... that's your problem, but you need to respect it.

thracians and illyrians, they carried the same haplogroups. there is even a branch proposed thrako-illyrian.

I am not slavic ............why are you whining .

the borders you put up are fabricated, what are they from ?, language?

 

[Melancon]

instead of having hatred for people who are older than your ''race'', the oldest race in the balkans

you actually think if illyrians were i2a they would of lived in the balkans before ancient greeks? didn't they immigrate? I mean they were greek neighbors... there would be much higher i2a among greeks

Actually Y-DNA I2 is older than any of the Albanian subclades. Including E-V13 which is Neolithic; and J2b and R1b which arrived in the Age of Metal.

 

[Sile]

who really cares if the map isn't right? (which it actually is)

but the whole point is how did they get locked? montengro is a country created by the slavic empires, so is every other slavic country in the balkans, all these lands were conquered, how did Albanians immigrate to where they are? haha, we were gifted the lands by the romans? Show me historical evidence? There lived Illyrians and thracians in these lands during roman time, dardania for example, there were thracians and illyrians, many known emperors. This is what I'm talking about. you need to sort your issues out, not me... show me there were a different people living there who were given land by the romans?

IT was SLAVS who were invited by the romans to CROATIA and BOSNIA

I'm starting to think you're a greek/slav living in kangaroo land, who do you think you are to tell us we are not from balkan? we speak a language that came from balkan, you speak a language from poland... do I need to say more? you came here, your ass speaks slav, you locked us, took our lands.

what locked?, land locked?

Because the romans placed the albanians in a similar land-locked area they originated from.

i come from no slavic or greek stock

 

[Sile]

They may be indigenous; but at some point they may have also migrated to the region as a tribe. Probably from the East. Your problem isn't mine and neither is it anyone else's here on Eupedia.

Your account is a bit suspicious; and I am wondering if you are King Bardhyl under a different account and internet protocol.

yes, i think he is king bardhyl.............a t r o l l

 

[Sile]

I'm no king bardhyl. Why would they of immigrated? because you want it to be that way? How did they immigrate there? Weren't there any people living there? They were there still before slavs, how else did they get locked? same regions where they lived. this is proven by the latin loan words. they lived in these regions during roman era, before slavs came, and in these regions lived illyrians and thracians, and celts who were under roman conquest.

the dorians lived there in the bronze-age .......thats what the type of archeology tells us

 

[mihaitzateo]

Again,E was not brought by any Indo-European speakers,it was brought by peasants,who were practicing agriculture and who moved from North Africa to Europa.
In Balkans,the E-V13 appeared,it seems.
Illyrians ,Thracians,Slavs,Dacians,neither carried E-V13.
They are ,all of them,Indo-Europeans.
Again,R1b-ht35/R1b-l23 which is very present in Albania ,Greece and also in a part of Romania is very likely linked to ancient Illyrians,Thracians,Greeks.
How the article is explained?
If someone finds some not typical haplogroup as his paternal line,he will most likely want to be the descendant of some great warrior.
So,this person from Great Britain thinks his ancestor was a Thracian soldier,that was fighting for Roman Empire and chosen to settle in Great Britain.
The reality is that is more likely that his ancestor was a Balkan peasant,forcibly brought to Great Britain by Roman Empire.
I highly doubt that Thracians that were fighting for Roman Empire were too many,for the simple reason Thracians and Dacians fought against Roman Empire and were defeated.
Same about Greek warriors.
Maybe they were some Thracians fighting in Roman Empire army,but most likely,most of them were R1b-L23.
How do you think R1b-L23 got so spread in Europe?
Besa,I already told you this is a serious history forum,stop being so aggressive ,think more,and speak less.
I think most people here agrees with the fact that R1b-L23 is linked to Ancient Greeks,Illyrians,Thracians.
Look at the map of R1b-L23,Albania,Romania,Greece got most,from Europe,as you move to Slavic lands,is almost absent ,there are even areas where is totally absent.
Also Italy,from Western Europe,got a higher percentage,how could this be explained?
I have no idea,but a good theory is that it got spread after Roman Empire conquest of Greece and Balkans.
EDIT:
Here:
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L23.gif


One more thing,the title of the article is that :
"DNA links pensioner with Romans".
You wrote the title in a different way,saying is linking the pensioner with Kosovo.
Kosovo has a higher percentage of E-V13 because,very likely,the peaceful agricultural people that were in Balkans from before Illyirians,Thracians and other Indo-European people came, thought refuge in an area very mountainous .
If that guy has E-V13,did he took a deep clade analysis to be sure that his E-V13 is from Balkans?
I do not know,I am just asking.

 

[giuseppe rossi]

That is extremely improbable. Until quite recently, it was much easier to travel by sea than by land. There was some movement by land, but one only has to look at the distribution pattern of R1b in western Europe to realize that much of it arrived by sea.

Some countries in the northern part of western Europe have higher ANE from WHG, and specifically from mtDNA U5.

R1b arrived from the East.

 

[Maleth]

Again,E was not brought by any Indo-European speakers,it was brought by peasants,who were practicing agriculture and who moved from North Africa to Europa.

How interesting. Besides Maciamos hypothesis as one of 3 possibilities can you lead to more concrete evidence?

How the article is explained?
If someone finds some not typical haplogroup as his paternal line,he will most likely want to be the descendant of some great warrior.
So,this person from Great Britain thinks his ancestor was a Thracian soldier,that was fighting for Roman Empire and chosen to settle in Great Britain.
The reality is that is more likely that his ancestor was a Balkan peasant,forcibly brought to Great Britain by Roman Empire.
I highly doubt that Thracians that were fighting for Roman Empire were too many,for the simple reason Thracians and Dacians fought against Roman Empire and were defeated.

Relax, the theory did not come from Besa or this Pensioner, but quoting a paper by Steve Bird back in 2007 if not mistaken. You can always challenge him about your peasants import theory. I read more theories of How the at least 7000 year old E-V13 arrived in Europe, some said Gypsies, others said slaves, now we have the peasant theory. All sound so amazing.

Just a small question. Didnt the Celts know how to farm at that time? and how did the Romans know that E-V13 were good farmers to till their fields? they had it on their ID card (Excuse the pun) You find Stephen Bird on this forum. His theory has been challenged but not with a Peasant, Gypsie or slave theories (as yet) but more as Neolithic settlers

http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=0145047818e7ebd2001412d5493e2c23&board=16.0

Albania,Romania,Greece got most,from Europe,as you move to Slavic lands,is almost absent ,there are even areas where is totally absent.
Also Italy,from Western Europe,got a higher percentage,how could this be explained?
I have no idea,but a good theory is that it got spread after Roman Empire conquest of Greece and Balkans.

according to Eupidia

E1b1b in Balkans :- not sure what % is E-V13 as they are not distinguished.

Serbia 18%
Romania 15%
Greece 21%
Montenegro 27%
Cyprus 20%
Macedonia 21.5%
Albania 27.5%
Bulgaria 23.5%
Bosnian Serbs 22.5%
Agean Islands 22%



other high figures outside balkans



Asturias 14%
Sicily 20.5%
Extramedura 18.5%
Castille & Leon 16 %
Galicia 22%

When one analyses all HG percentages there does not seem much difference, not sure why all this hysteria. Politics is one thing and DNA history is another. This phenomena is not just a Balkan one. Look at Western Europe and its DNA. How different is it? The Irish dont like the British, the British dont like the French, the French dont like the Germans so and so forth. So Politics and DNA are not the same thing. One just have to grow to feel comfortable with the facts.

 

[Aberdeen]

R1b arrived from the East.

Yes, R1b arrived from the east, but the latest evidence shows that some of it arrived in western Europe earlier than some people have been assuming. And that map of the route R1b followed into western Europe is a theory, not a fact, and it doesn't fit some of the facts very well.

 

[giuseppe rossi]

Neolitich R1b from Spain has not been tested for V88, so we don't really know how it fits in the whole scheme.

The map is the most correct you will find around.

 

[Diurpaneus]

Again,E was not brought by any Indo-European speakers,it was brought by peasants,who were practicing agriculture and who moved from North Africa to Europa.
In Balkans,the E-V13 appeared,it seems.Illyrians ,Thracians,Slavs,Dacians,neither carried E-V13.

Maybe they were some Thracians fighting in Roman Empire army,but most likely,most of them were R1b-L23.
How do you think R1b-L23 got so spread in Europe?

It certainly proves the continuity of your people,the Szeklers,as heirs of many related groups:Thracians,Scythians,Sarmatians,Huns,Avars,Uralics,Magyars,Turkic.
Now seriously,this is racism and hypocrisy in its pure form.
And another thing,I thought that the Szeklers fought with honour,without using cheap tricks.
Unlike others, who first fought,then they thought.

 

[Diurpaneus]

The Wietenberg population could have had plenty of E-V13.
They practiced cremation,here's a newly discovered necropolis, dating from 2000 BC, with 61 urns containing cremated remains:

http://www.academia.edu/10013539/TH...EŞ_ÎNTRE_RĂSTOACE._PRELIMINARY_CONSIDERATIONS

These tribes were conquered by the Noua culture bearers(proto-Thracians) and switched their rite to inhumation, the antropological analysis proves the existence of a"Mediterranean gracile indigenous type".
It is not surprising,since Wietenberg emerged from Cotofeni(it's UsatovE,not UsatovO,on wiki).
Cotofeni represents the unification of Salcuta(SW Romania),Bubanj(Serbia),Petresti(Transylvania),all three of Vinca origin,Ariusd(from E Transylvania,of disputed origin,southern or/and eastern/Cucutenean)and Bodrogkereztur(E Hungary).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wietenberg_culture

http://archaeotek.org/past_and_future_projects/bronze_age_osteology_workshop_completed