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Thread: Possible history of Dairy

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    Regular Member Twilight's Avatar
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    Possible history of Dairy

    Milk was a trendy food to the Ancient Britians so how did milk get so popular in that area?

    Well we know that Dairy came with the Neolithic, spreading into Europe and in 4,000 BC both the Linear Pottery Cultures; G2a & I2 (J1 & T) and Printed Cardium Pottery Culture;G2a, I2 & E1b1b (J1&T) was genetically encroaching on the Megalithic Culture about the same time when milk became popular in Britian. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-...949776/?no-ist
    http://www.dairygoodness.ca/milk/the-history-of-milk#
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolit...late_neolithic

    Considering that Taurus Cows were domesticated in the Taurus Mountains, how did the Cows get to Europe? On a speculative note, the J1 folks were living in the Taurus Mountains about 9,000 BC and a minority band of J1 folks assimilated into the G2a clan bringing their cattle with them :)
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog....shtml#origins

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    Did Neolithic farmers had more goats and sheep than cows. How popular were cows among neolithic farmers? I think goats and sheep dominated more dryer regions, and cows more lash green. It's just my guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Did Neolithic farmers had more goats and sheep than cows. How popular were cows among neolithic farmers? I think goats and sheep dominated more dryer regions, and cows more lash green. It's just my guess.
    Why yes, I would imagine that goats and Sheep were more numerous than domesticated Cattle due to the Sheep's docile behavior as Lambs however I haven't found a population count yet so I'm taking it that the DNA sequence hasn't been fully deciphered yet but the Mouflon sheep is said to be at least one of the sheep's ancestors whose habitat is apparently in the Mountains right next to trees or in meadows. The Moufion's habitat is around the Mediterranean Island, the Fertile Cresent and once inhabited the Anatolian area but got extinct around 1000 BC.
    http://archaeology.about.com/od/shth...ep-History.htm
    http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/mouflon.htm
    International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (April 2009). "IUCN Red List of Threatened Species". IUCN. Retrieved 2009. More specifically, in the island of Cyprus they became a new endemic species only found there, the "Cyprus mouflon" (Ovis orientalis ophion)

    However, Bovine genetics states that all of the cows; at least Taurus Cattle, were descended from only 80 Aurochs in the Near East however recent studies have been saying that the Domesticated Cattle in the Near east mixed with European Aurouchs. Haplogroup P in Cattle are said to have come from European Aurouchs and Haplogroup T is said to have come from Near Eastern Aurochs. Although it is true that Wild Aurochs were known for living in floodplain forests and marshes during the specie's last years.

    The Aurochs were extinct since the mid 17th century due to over hunting and growing Industrial life however their domesticated cousins lives on.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0327124243.htm
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0729073638.htm
    Where the Wild Things Are: Aurochs and Cattle in England. 2008.

    The Ibex were domesticated in the Zagros Mountains in 8000 BC, the same place where haplogroup J1 origionated.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog....shtml#origins
    Naderi, Saeid; Rezaei, Hamid-Reza; Pompanon, François; Blum, Michael G. B.; Negrini, Riccardo; Naghash, Hamid-Reza; Balkiz, Özge; Mashkour, Marjan; Gaggiotti, Oscar E.; Ajmone-Marsan, Paolo; Kence, Aykut; Vigne, Jean-Denis; Taberlet, Pierre (November 18, 2008). "The goat domestication process inferred from large-scale mitochondrial DNA analysis of wild and domestic individuals". PNAS 105 (46): 17659–17664. doi:10.1073/pnas.0804782105. PMC 2584717. PMID 19004765.
    b Hirst, K. Kris. "The History of the Domestication of Goats". About.com. Accessed August 18, 2008.

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    Elite member epoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Considering that Taurus Cows were domesticated in the Taurus Mountains, how did the Cows get to Europe?
    Genetic evidence of remains show that pigs were first imported by LBK culture and traded to nearby HG's (who kept domesticated pigs), as both early LBK and Ertebolla finds show great affinity with Anatolian wild boar. Later this inverted, and later Ertebolla remains as well as later LBK remains show great affinity to local wild boar. Evidently the HGs picked up the idea of domestication and became rather successful at it.

    So, as always, the picture is a tad complicated. But it does show that intitially LBK brought their own livestock with them.
    Last edited by epoch; 06-04-15 at 11:17.

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    I am not a zoologist,

    But in case of goats we must also search the other 2 categories,

    the 'antilope' goats or chamois
    the malteser goats, which are considered the best, but 'weak' at diseases, (at least in my country)
    the aeagagrus (αιγαγρος) species

    although I do not believe that goats were domesticate at areas full of water, rather in areas full of calcium mountains, and rich in mineral salts,
    goats have ability to survive with small water demands for a period,


    although pig is not milk producer, semms like domestication might started around the big rivers of middle East or Near East,
    we know it existed, in Cyprus more than 7ky from today.

    about cows and Auroch, case is widely known today,
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    I think this map is still generally accurate:





    Goats can indeed survive in very arid terrain, and on seemingly nothing. That's why they're such a staple in some dry, Mediterranean type areas. They're very destructive of terrain as well, however.

    Sheep are pretty adaptable too. If I'm remembering correctly, the old people used to say they didn't do well in boggy lowlands, however. Cattle need lots of grass, so there has to be a certain amount of rain. They didn't do at all well in Liguria, which is why there are no or almost no local cow cheeses, but in the mountains of the Apennines there were more cows than people it seemed. Everything depends on the climate and the terrain.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think this map is still generally accurate:





    Goats can indeed survive in very arid terrain, and on seemingly nothing. That's why they're such a staple in some dry, Mediterranean type areas. They're very destructive of terrain as well, however.

    Sheep are pretty adaptable too. If I'm remembering correctly, the old people used to say they didn't do well in boggy lowlands, however. Cattle need lots of grass, so there has to be a certain amount of rain. They didn't do at all well in Liguria, which is why there are no or almost no local cow cheeses, but in the mountains of the Apennines there were more cows than people it seemed. Everything depends on the climate and the terrain.
    I've always believed that crop farming must have started in fertile river valleys that had enough fish and wild edible plants to allow people to live in one spot for several generations. When their population started to outgrow the resources, they tried to augment the plant harvest by encouraging the growth of edible plants, and gradually became crop farmers. I think that's far more likely than nomadic hunter gatherers learning how to farm without someone to teach them. But your map has given me a new theory about how livestock farming may have started - not on the grasslands but in the mountains, because people who didn't originally know how to herd livestock may have found it easier to control the movement of grazing animals in mountainous areas.

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