The Italian Language

[Joey D]

^ Interesting article (a medieval version of the EU!)

 

[Hauteville]

This is defiantly not the case. There are no Phoenician reminiscent left in todays Maltese Language. According to Al-Himyari the Islands were totally destroyed and became uninhabited by the Aghlibites in 870 only the be repopulated from Sicily quite some time later. The present Maltese Language must have come from these people. Also prior to the Aghlibite invasion the Maltese islands were for some 300 years under Byzantine rule and another some 300 under Roman Rule. What effect this had on the language the population spoke during this time is all irrelevant anyway as the Island has been depopulated after this period only the be repopulated later from Sicily. So genetics and language can only be referred to to this time period and nothing before.

See also: Arab?€“Byzantine wars and Emirate of Sicily

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Malta became involved in the Muslim?€“Byzantine Wars, and the conquest of Malta is closely linked with that of Sicily that began in 827 after admiral Euphemius' betrayal of his fellow Byzantines, requesting that the Aghlabids invade the island.^[59] The Muslim chronicler and geographer al-Himyari recounts that in 870 AD, following a violent struggle against the occupying Byzantines, the Muslim invaders, first led by Halaf al-Hadim, and later by Sawada ibn Muhammad,^[60] looted and pillaged the island, destroying the most important buildings, and leaving it practically uninhabited until it was recolonised by the Muslims from Sicily in 1048?€“1049 AD.^[60] It is uncertain whether this new settlement took place as a consequence of demographic expansion in Sicily, as a result of a higher standard of living in Sicily (in which case the recolonisation may have taken place a few decades earlier), or as a result of civil war which broke out among Muslim rulers of Sicily in 1038.^[61] The Muslims introduced new irrigation, some fruits and cotton and the Siculo-Arabiclanguage was adopted on the island from Sicily: it would eventually evolve into the Maltese language.^[62]
The Christians on the island were allowed freedom of religion; they had to pay jizya, a tax for non-Muslims, but were exempt from the tax that Muslims had to pay (zakat).^[63]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Malta#Roman_rule​

An identical language of modern Maltese was the Pantellerian. So all of the indigenous Maltese were killed by Muslims invasors?​

 

[Maleth]

An identical language of modern Maltese was the Pantellerian. So all of the indigenous Maltese were killed by Muslims invasors?

Al-Himyari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitab_al-Rawd_al-Mitar has the most detailed description (based on previous accounts) we have of what happened during this period. His writing also state that the Maltese Islands were visited from Southern Sicily by fishermen and to harvest wood and donkeys (probably from abounded farms) were roaming wild. Its quite a vivid and detailed description and tallies with an abounded Island. While there might be some sweeping accounts, It seems that it is quite factual. The population at that time was very tiny and the only town was Melite and to a smaller extent the citadel on the Island of Gozo. So total inhalation was possible (except maybe some settlements in the rural areas). Unfortunately we do not have much records from the Byzantine period accept for typical Ceramics found all over the Island and some scattered Byzantine chapels with typical Greek saints. It seems also the Aghlibites (from today Tunisia) were not interested much (initially) in the Islands south of Sicily and probably reduced the Malta status as that of Lampedusa and Pantelleria, irrelevant of the fine harbors, that were so much prized by both Phoenicians and Romans. Aglabithes naturally focused their initial efforts on the seat of Power in Palermo. The repopulation and rebuilding of the city Melite/Medina) seems to have occurred many decades later. Its unfortunate that we do not have clear accounts of when exactly and why it happened, and were the new settlers from Sicily came from and if there were any migrations also directly from Tunis proper. The Maltese language with Siculo-Arabic has now been studied in much dept and linguists seem to agree with its spread and evolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siculo-Arabic


If it wasn't for British rule, who had a vested interest to destroy Italian from the Maltese population probably Italian would have taken over by today as what happened in Sicily as especially from the times of the knight of Malta till the beginning of the British take over, Italian was the language of the Courts, and administration and Latin of the church and later the language of much of the press. Maltese was considered the language of the peasants and the kitchen. Later (especially after world war2) the British had invested in eradicating the Italian language and promote Maltese to a new level and later introducing English as one of the two national languages.

 

[Joey D]

^ Yes, Geoffrey Hull tells a similar tale in The Malta Language Question (1993), that is, that the British had quite aggressive policies which put a stop to Malta's development as an Italianate state.

I agree with the contention that it is the British who stopped Malta from going down the same route of Sicily, that is, of losing its language, although it has to be said that Sicilian was a bit closer to Tuscan, and thus the assimilation of Tuscan as its preferred language happened a bit easier than would have been the case for the Maltese.

The other thing to note is that Tuscan had been adopted as the written lingua franca in Sicily well before the unification of Italy, and had been gradually replacing Latin as the formal written language for centuries.

The Parliamentary records going back to the 13th and 14th century are written in a clearly identifiable Sicilian, albeit an elite form, but from the mid 15th century onwards the Tuscanisation of the written language is clearly observable.

 

[zanipolo]

accents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co_591_qm2M

 

[Angela]

17 Italian words that don't translate precisely into English.

See:
http://www.lifehack.org/367307/17-f...ds-that-cant-directly-translated-into-english

Well, they can be explained, but sometimes the emotional "tonality" if I can call it that, doesn't translate, or it says in one word what takes quite a few words in other languages. Even though I speak Italian pretty rarely here in the U.S., (although I read it or hear it every day) certain words still pepper my speech at home, mainly because they're, well, perfect...

Magari is one I use a lot. I suppose the closest definition is "I wish it were so", or "From your mouth to God's ears", or sometimes "Perhaps".

Boh is another one. It means I don't know, but more often I use it in an exasperated way as in, "I don't know, and how could I be expected to know, and/or why are you asking me something you should know I don't know!"

I also use "Allora" a lot, which wasn't included in this list. It just means so, or well, so it can be directly translated, but my impression is that we use it a lot more if for nothing more than as a pause filler. I notice that I start a lot of my sentences with Well, or So...

Pazienza is another one that can be translated. It means patience, obviously, but weary resignation is closest, I think. Italians use it a lot, in contrast to English speakers. Maybe we have less of it. I tend to mumble it a lot.

I won't list all the various swear words. I'm still old fashioned enough, and my mother's daughter enough that I don't use them, or use them only under extreme provocation. I hate Italian swearing; it's just filthier than anglo-saxon swearing, imo.

 

[Jovialis]

Its very different from where I'm from, they speak the dialect particular to their town, on my mom's side. Nobody, even in the neighboring towns can fully understand them. Nevertheless, my grandfather was wealthy back in Italy. I know it's not becoming of higher social class to speak improperly. He was a sea captain, and would travel the world. And he spoke like a sailor : ) He had a lot of stories from his travels. His home was decorated with items he purchased abroad, from Asia, Africa and the Americas. He always said Japan was his favorite, because it was very clean, and people were very friendly. Back in his town, he was well known, and had a nickname that was extremely vulgar. It would probably be wise for me not to say it. Lol

 

[Salento]

Its very different from where I'm from, they speak the dialect particular to their town, on my mom's side. Nobody, even in the neighboring towns can fully understand them. Nevertheless, my grandfather was wealthy back in Italy. I know it's not becoming of higher social class to speak improperly. He was a sea captain, and would travel the world. And he spoke like a sailor : ) He had a lot of stories from his travels. His home was decorated with items he purchased abroad, from Asia, Africa and the Americas. He always said Japan was his favorite, because it was very clean, and people were very friendly. Back in his town, he was well known, and had a nickname that was extremely vulgar. It would probably be wise for me not to say it. Lol

My Father side doesn't have a nickname, but when people ask "e tie ci sinti?", I answer "Ieu suntu lu M... lu figghiu the lu Nin.., te lu Pip..., te la Catan...!
4 Generations, and they still Remember.
I guess that happen to People that end up Actively Supporting "The wrong side of History."

 

[davef]

"Pazienza is another one that can be translated. It means patience, obviously, but weary resignation is closest, I think. Italians use it a lot, in contrast to English speakers. Maybe we have less of it. I tend to mumble it a lot. "

Do you mumble it when you read what I write?

 

[Salento]

"Pazienza is another one that can be translated. It means patience, obviously, but weary resignation is closest, I think. Italians use it a lot, in contrast to English speakers. Maybe we have less of it. I tend to mumble it a lot. "

Do you mumble it when you read what I write?

I mumble at times, and I'm also reminded that I Lack the Capacity to Whisper. People get really Embarrassed . And I say "What?", and then they Whisper: "they can hear you".
It's very funny when that happens.
At least for me. [emoji2]

 

[Angela]

How could I have forgotten "Uffa"? I say that a lot too. It's often used to express boredom, but the more emphatic, the more disgust enters into it, as in "enough, already".

People do still speak their local dialect, although more so in some areas than in others (it's virtually gone in eastern Liguria, i.e.La Spezia), but everyone knows standard Italian if they have gone to school at all. Plus, television, radio, newspapers, are all in standard Italian. Even the dialects that are still used have been impacted by standard Italian. Joey would know better, but I've been told by Sicilian Americans who go back to visit that the Sicilian dialects they speak are considered very old fashioned.

 

[Salento]

What about - Mannaggia - " Damn".

 

[Angela]

What about - Mannaggia - " Damn".

I've never used it. It stems from a southern Italian phrase.

Q.
I hear people exclaim what sounds like "manager" or "management" when they're agitated. What’s the meaning?

A.
That someone's not happy. Mannaggia is a "polite" vulgarity, an interjection that qualifies as a vivid kind of "dammit." The word has southern roots (it was included in the country's famous Neapolitan-Italian dictionary of 1887) and derives from "male ne abbia," basically "plenty bad." Its literary background stems from another, now outdated interjection, malannaggia, as in "abbia il malanno," or, "May you be damned..." ("Malannaggia l'anima tua!" wrote 19th-century Sicilian author Giovanni Verga, "Damn your soul...")

http://www.theamericanmag.com/tourist_qa.php?feature=travel&column=46&faq=65

 

[Jovialis]

I noticed that people from my mother's town would colloquially refer to people or other folks as I cristiani.

They don't even have to necessarily be Christians, to whom they are referring to. Its interchangeable with the word persone, to them.

@Salento
Do they do this in your town as well? I think they might do it in my dad's town.

 

[Jovialis]

I've never used it. It stems from a southern Italian phrase.

Q.
I hear people exclaim what sounds like "manager" or "management" when they're agitated. What’s the meaning?

A.
That someone's not happy. Mannaggia is a "polite" vulgarity, an interjection that qualifies as a vivid kind of "dammit." The word has southern roots (it was included in the country's famous Neapolitan-Italian dictionary of 1887) and derives from "male ne abbia," basically "plenty bad." Its literary background stems from another, now outdated interjection, malannaggia, as in "abbia il malanno," or, "May you be damned..." ("Malannaggia l'anima tua!" wrote 19th-century Sicilian author Giovanni Verga, "Damn your soul...")

http://www.theamericanmag.com/tourist_qa.php?feature=travel&column=46&faq=65

I always used to hear something along the lines of Malannaggia e uccid te mort!

Also, sort of a version of "bug off", is gettare il sangue But it's not to be taken as malicious as it sounds. It's sort of like, "whatever, have it your way".

There's a hilarious dubbed version of the movie Troy (2004), on YouTube that's done in the Altamurano dialect. It's very vulgar, but I think it's funny.

 

[Salento]

I noticed that people from my mother's town would colloquially refer to people or other folks as I cristiani.

They don't even have to necessarily be Christians, to whom they are referring to. Its interchangeable with the word persone, to them.

@Salento
Do they do this in your town as well? I think they might do it in my dad's town as well.

Same thing , in Dialect “Li Cristiani” is the generic term for “People”. It Rarely refers to Christians.
“Lu cinema stae chinu te Cristiani.” = The Movie theatre is full of people.
Ce Cristianu/a ! = What a Man/Woman!

 

[zanipolo]

Same thing , “Li Cristiani” is the generic term for “People”. It Rarely refers to Christians.
“Lu cinema stae chinu te Cristiani.” = The Movie theatre is full of people.
Ce Cristianu/a ! = What a Man/Woman!

Do you use Foresti or Stanieri for non-italians

 

[Salento]

Do you use Foresti or Stanieri for non-italians

Usually “I Forestieri” are Italians not from the local area, or from a different Province. Stranieri for non-Italians.

 

[Jovialis]

Same thing , in Dialect “Li Cristiani” is the generic term for “People”. It Rarely refers to Christians.
“Lu cinema stae chinu te Cristiani.” = The Movie theatre is full of people.
Ce Cristianu/a ! = What a Man/Woman!

I wonder if this is a relic from the middle ages to identify solely Christians as compatriots. Merely speculation.

 

[Salento]

I wonder if this is a relic from the middle ages to identify solely Christians as compatriots. Merely speculation.

“Cristiano” is a follower of Christ, so in some places in Italy, Maybe at some point in history, any Non Christian was not longer considered a “Real” person.
just speculating