[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thedata I've seen suggests the Celts were a horse tribe in North Africaaround 3000 BC with access to the early galley. When the Sahara driedup they moved into Western Europe. The Culture is known as BellBeaker, haplogroup is R1b L21, language was Celtic.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Evidence:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1.Similarities in pottery styles of Bell Beakers and North Africa[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2.Arrow head similarity maps[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3.Y haplogroup R1b L21 split up around 3000 BC[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]4.Maternal DNA (Plenty of H in North Africa)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]5.Celtic languages likely split around 3000 BC[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]6.Celtic has similarities with Afro-Asiatic[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]7.Bell Beaker first appeared in Iberia around 3000 BC with bronzetechnology[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]8.No evidence suggesting R1b L21 moved through Central Europe (whywould they having a navy?)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]9.Introduction of the horse in England between 2500 and 3000 BC[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]10.Introduction of African cattle in Iberia prior to 1500 BC[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11.Strong connection between Iberian and Berber horses[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]12.Strong connection between Bell Beaker territory, Celtic language, andthe presence of R1b.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Notsurprisingly Bell Beaker artifacts were found in SW Norway as isR1b.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thetheory that the Celtic language spread from the Hallstatt culture 600BC is pretty much discredited, it was a much older culture andlanguage. Seems correct to state that R1b-L21 is Celtic.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ANSWER [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]some good points but we cananalyse some of them from an other perspective[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1. Bell Beakers in NorthAfrica can as well be an importation[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2. Same remark : theywere part of the same « kit ».[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3. OK but Y-R1b-L21 is notdense in places where BBs are, for the most. If LATE BBs can belinked to Celts they can be linked too proto-stages of others I-Eancultures (surely Italic, maybe Germanic).[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]5. Celtic languages since 3000BC ? It is not sure but possible, even if I think the genuineproto-Celtic separated from proto-Italic begun only about the 2500BC, without solid proof I acknowledge so : OK here, but does itprove a link with FIRST BBs and North Africa ?[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]6. Celtic and Afro-Asiaticlanguages ? Neo-Celtic yes (maybe substrata), but old Celticlanguages ? I 'm not sure the ancient celtic syntaxis was soclose to the A-A ones...[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]7. OK no remark, but ?[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]8. Y-R1b-L21 had more chancesto be born in Western Europe than in Alps, but it come from Y-R-P310as U152 and others of West and West-Central Europe. Its maritimeorigin is to be proved : Celts were more continental people thanmaritime people at first, but they learned quick and well accordingto the Ancients, and can impose their rules upon, or deal withprevious shores people.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]9. the Horse in the Islesabout 3000/2500 BC ? Seems coherent with BBs being horsemen andbowmen (rather the 2500 BC?) - What else can this prove ?[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]10. African cattle in Iberiabefore the 1500 BC... at what precise date ? And Neolithiccolonization and/or subsequent trade can explain that :north-african cattle in the Isles would have been more probant.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11. Connexion betweenberberian and iberian horses : same answer : berberianhorses in the Isles ?[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]12. Strong connexion forterritories concerning BBs, Celts and R1b ? The BBs territories,spotty for the most, leaved huge territories without any BB. Theheavier regions for Y-R1b are in Northern Spain, not in SouthernPortugal. It is truer concerning the Y-R1b-L21 distribution. What wecould imagine is that the BB culture (an elite one, for I think) andits subsequent action of acculturation, had a heavy imput on theCelts culture developpment, leaving 2 hypothesis : creation ofthe celtic distinction upon a West-I-Ean communauty, or doping analready existing proto-celtic communauty. For me the most importantimput of BBs upon Celts took place in Germany along the Rhine riverabout the 2500/2200 BC before provocating expansions on differentdirections. It 's true celtic myths speak of a far Scythic origin anda way across Mediterranea through southern shores before reachingIberia ; what to think of that ? Legends are false orLegends contain a bit of truth but also can melt down the myths ofthe diverse previous components of a resulting mixed population, whatdoesn't exclude borrowings to more respected civilizations ?Uneasy to be sure of some things, I'm not even sure first genuine BBpromotors (East Carpathians origin, then Croatian?) were I-Eanspeaking ![/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I'm not trying to destroy yourthoughts but I propose other interpretations of the facts.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Wait and see more clues...[/FONT]