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Thread: Hero or Child Abuser?

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    Hero or Child Abuser?

    This video has gone viral. Wonder what our members think about this African American woman hitting her teen age son and dragging him out of the riot zone when she saw him with a brick in his hand in the middle of the action. Hero or abuser?

    http://news.yahoo.com/baltimore-riot...143137807.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

    The New York Post comes down on the side of the mother: Forget the National Guard-Send in the Moms!


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    Personally I am not in favour of hitting children and I think there are other ways one can pass on a message that a child could be doing wrong. To be fair I know a number of people that boast their parents were tough as giving them the occasional smack and now they say they appreciated what they did. However I feel that even if the siblings would come to this sort of conclusion they can pass this sort of behavior as correct with having worse consequences in other situations. If not mistaken it is also known that Bullying at schools is quite related to parents bullying their children by letting off steam (so to speak) on vulnerable children.

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    She, definitely did the right thing, because her son had a brick. If he threatens the authority or another person, who knows what'll happen to him. He should know that isn't the right way to protest anything.

    Her son is a teenage boy and she's a middle aged woman, does anyone really think she's able to physically abuse him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Personally I am not in favour of hitting children and I think there are other ways one can pass on a message that a child could be doing wrong. To be fair I know a number of people that boast their parents were tough as giving them the occasional smack and now they say they appreciated what they did. However I feel that even if the siblings would come to this sort of conclusion they can pass this sort of behavior as correct with having worse consequences in other situations. If not mistaken it is also known that Bullying at schools is quite related to parents bullying their children by letting off steam (so to speak) on vulnerable children.
    One way or another IMO people need to learn the value of respecting authority and others by the time they're adults. I think I learned this. Even if my teacher was a complete retard, gave me detentions of no reason, etc. I would take it. I would still give them respect, not be an *******, and attempt to stop what they're doing without raising my voice(they'll be more likely to listen, usually). Too many people like many of the protesters don't have this value. They only care for themselves and are bad for society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    She, definitely did the right thing, because her son had a brick. If he threatens the authority or another person, who knows what'll happen to him. He should know that isn't the right way to protest anything.

    Her son is a teenage boy and she's a middle aged woman, does anyone really think she's able to physically abuse him?
    He might have a brick because he perceives that violence is a good thing. And guess where he got the idea from?

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    I'm torn on this one. Hitting someone about the head repeatedly is not something that should normally be condoned. I also can see how it can teach violence as a response to frustration.

    On the other hand, if more mothers knew what their children were doing and went out there to drag their teenagers home and otherwise discipline them, we wouldn't have half the problems dogging us that we currently have.

    If I saw my son throwing rocks at people, looting a store, or setting fire to homes, I'm not sure I could control my reaction either. Sending him to a "time out" doesn't quite fit the situation. He was ruining people's livelihoods and could have seriously injured or even killed someone, not to mention the possibility that he could have wound up injured himself or in jail. This woman is also in the unenviable situation of being a single mother trying to control an adolescent boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    He might have a brick because he perceives that violence is a good thing. And guess where he got the idea from?
    He probably mostly got the idea Violence is good from the environment outside of his home he grew up in. Same reason most men in prison are African-American. I have no idea whether hitting kids make them violent. For this specific kid though my guess that isn't the main reason.

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    the mother has no authority at all over her son
    and the kid is a bum, has no ambition at all in his life and has nothing else to do than throw some stones, just for the fun and the excitement, and because it looks good in front of his friends
    and his father, is he still in the picture? he's probably an even bigger bum

    and the kid didn't get any physical brooses, but maybe it was quite embarassing for him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm torn on this one. Hitting someone about the head repeatedly is not something that should normally be condoned. I also can see how it can teach violence as a response to frustration.

    On the other hand, if more mothers knew what their children were doing and went out there to drag their teenagers home and otherwise discipline them, we wouldn't have half the problems dogging us that we currently have.

    If I saw my son throwing rocks at people, looting a store, or setting fire to homes, I'm not sure I could control my reaction either. Sending him to a "time out" doesn't quite fit the situation. He was ruining people's livelihoods and could have seriously injured or even killed someone, not to mention the possibility that he could have wound up injured himself or in jail. This woman is also in the unenviable situation of being a single mother trying to control an adolescent boy.
    Angela if your son never saw his dad throwing rocks at a window or in a fight, or he never saw you beating up his dad (example), I believe its highly unlikely he will ever do it and he would not even feel comfortable hanging round with a crowd that thinks its ok. I think the question we should ask here is, if this mum could beat up her son in front of the crowd and also stated that she also does it away from the camera (her understanding how to control her kid/s). I really do not think that this kid suddenly has been converted. I am sure he is going to take the humiliation and frustration to another level. Its amazing even in other everyday issues how tackling a challenge or a situation with the right measure of words and with the right body language can work wonders on the psyche of a person, without the need of any confrontation.

    He could look all proper in front of her but he is going to bottle up the anger and humiliation and release them in some other form. Violence breeds violence, and he is not going to suddenly be a very good boy. Its human nature. I am assuming it was her choice to have a big family and she does not give me the impression that she was raped either. Its not an excuse how to control kids. This boy could easily grow up with an its ok attitude to beat his wife. I think there has been some studies on this subject.

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    I`m with Maleth on this, I too disagree with slapping children. Children need to learn right from wrong and sometimes disciplining is needed. This however, can be done in ways other than slapping.
    We would not agree with a man slapping/hitting a woman or with the slapping of an elderly person etc..so why should we think it okay to hit children?
    If the incident in the video showed a man taking his wife/partner [or sixteen year old daughter] away from this riot and repeatedly slapping her across the head while doing so, would we not think it wrong? I imagine we would. So why, because it is a mum slapping her son should it make a difference?
    However, that said, I do think how this mother, on discovering her son was present at this riot and in a dangerous position, acted by coming out, looking for him, finding him and taking him out of the situation and home, responsible and good parenting. I believe this is a pretty involved mother. I`m with her right up to point where the slapping started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    I`m with Maleth on this, I too disagree with slapping children. Children need to learn right from wrong and sometimes disciplining is needed. This however, can be done in ways other than slapping.
    We would not agree with a man slapping/hitting a woman or with the slapping of an elderly person etc..so why should we think it okay to hit children?
    If the incident in the video showed a man taking his wife/partner [or sixteen year old daughter] away from this riot and repeatedly slapping her across the head while doing so, would we not think it wrong? I imagine we would. So why, because it is a mum slapping her son should it make a difference?
    However, that said, I do think how this mother, on discovering her son was present at this riot and in a dangerous position, acted by coming out, looking for him, finding him and taking him out of the situation and home, responsible and good parenting. I believe this is a pretty involved mother. I`m with her right up to point where the slapping started.
    The techniques to produce a good adult out of a kid are really complex and there's no right answer every time in my opinion. Maybe the best teaching is allow kids to learn themselves on their own. The ultimate goal is for the kid to know what choice to make, and stopping him/her from learning this by punishing them before their bad decision punishes them sometimes isn't smart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm torn on this one. Hitting someone about the head repeatedly is not something that should normally be condoned. I also can see how it can teach violence as a response to frustration.

    On the other hand, if more mothers knew what their children were doing and went out there to drag their teenagers home and otherwise discipline them, we wouldn't have half the problems dogging us that we currently have.

    If I saw my son throwing rocks at people, looting a store, or setting fire to homes, I'm not sure I could control my reaction either. Sending him to a "time out" doesn't quite fit the situation. He was ruining people's livelihoods and could have seriously injured or even killed someone, not to mention the possibility that he could have wound up injured himself or in jail. This woman is also in the unenviable situation of being a single mother trying to control an adolescent boy.
    Next time the mothers of the neighborhood should stand up in front of local stores and businesses. I'm sure it would discourage their sons against burning and plundering. However I don't think most these hooligans had a proper mother like this one, and instead they probably got the "shopping" list from them.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    I`m with Maleth on this, I too disagree with slapping children. Children need to learn right from wrong and sometimes disciplining is needed. This however, can be done in ways other than slapping.
    We would not agree with a man slapping/hitting a woman or with the slapping of an elderly person etc..so why should we think it okay to hit children?
    If the incident in the video showed a man taking his wife/partner [or sixteen year old daughter] away from this riot and repeatedly slapping her across the head while doing so, would we not think it wrong? I imagine we would. So why, because it is a mum slapping her son should it make a difference?
    However, that said, I do think how this mother, on discovering her son was present at this riot and in a dangerous position, acted by coming out, looking for him, finding him and taking him out of the situation and home, responsible and good parenting. I believe this is a pretty involved mother. I`m with her right up to point where the slapping started.
    And yet parents need some tools to correct behavior of kids, when explanation, begging and scare tactics fail. What do we have left, the carrot and the stick, pleasure and pain? I'm not advocating constant slapping, or really hurting or injuring kids, I barely did light corporal punishment myself few times in my life, mostly turning to raised voice, shouting or long monologues, for educational help. I wasn't fun of psychological punishments either, like dark room, closet, separation from group, pretending not to love kids, etc. Perhaps some psychological punishments might be more damaging to kids than some light spanking, which probably isn't? Though the truth is that spanking mostly will hurt pride of a child than his/her buttocks.
    My thoughts are rather erratic and not settled in this department, and most of my disciplining efforts ended up with me shouting at kids, more than anything else, and all of this was hurting me more than kids, lol. I'm glad my kids were good and I didn't need to master the discipline chapter of good parenting book. Except the times when they where viciously fighting each other and the early adolescences.

    Though, many parents are not that lucky, have terrible kids, and they might reserve to something more drastic, to keep kids in check and away from danger. On these grounds I'm not totally against corporal punishment, as long as kids are not injured, or punishment not resembling everyday constant senseless slapping.

    There is another thing why physical punishment might be a better option than psychological one. It is done instantly, with instant reaction of recipient, and no need for long term scheduling. On other hand if kids are forbidden to watch TV for couple of weeks, as a punishment, it is rather hard to administer when both parents are busy. Probably after few days nobody remembers about this, and the punishment looses it sting and reputation.

    Of course, we can always send kids to psychologist and expect miracles. :)


    When addressing post #1, I wonder what would be the reaction of this kid, if she only went there and talked to him? Perhaps by this slapping, which didn't hurt much of this almost adult, he understood that his mother is not kidding, and resistance is futile? I'm not sure what I would be my reaction, if I have found my son in such predicament. I'm lucky not to find out, I guess.

    At the end I would like to agree with you, that I hate people slapping kids. These are my feelings, but I'm not sure slapping or spanking is a bad thing.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 02-05-15 at 18:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Perhaps by this slapping, which didn't hurt much of this almost adult, he understood that his mother is not kidding, and resistance is futile?
    When my parents are in rage(if you want to call it that) I know "resistance is futile". When my parents are relaxed and respective I feel I have room to state my point and keep rebelling, disrespect them when I'm annoyed, or straight up disobey. When my mom is "in rage", what am I going to do hit her? Who would ever hit their mom? My only option is obey, no matter how much she hurts my pride. Even the biggest baddest gangster probably wouldn't retaliate against his little mom if she was slapping him in-front of his friends. I bet that kid is feeling guilty and won't be picking up bricks or protesting at all anytime soon.

    Also, when my parents are in rage I feel guilty and self-reflective. It helps me realize what a selfish brat I was. Also, I don't like to see my parents stressed out and have strife with them, even if they overreact or miss interpret something I say. When my parents are stressed out it makes me repentantive and want to change things. IMO, having my parents very angry at me helps me learn.

    But then again constant rage from my parents has caused me to be bitter and angry towards them and the world. There's no easy answer.

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    I approve of what she did. Modern society is just too pussified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    When my parents are in rage(if you want to call it that) I know "resistance is futile". When my parents are relaxed and respective I feel I have room to state my point and keep rebelling, disrespect them when I'm annoyed, or straight up disobey. When my mom is "in rage", what am I going to do hit her? Who would ever hit their mom? My only option is obey, no matter how much she hurts my pride. Even the biggest baddest gangster probably wouldn't retaliate against his little mom if she was slapping him in-front of his friends. I bet that kid is feeling guilty and won't be picking up bricks or protesting at all anytime soon.

    Also, when my parents are in rage I feel guilty and self-reflective. It helps me realize what a selfish brat I was. Also, I don't like to see my parents stressed out and have strife with them, even if they overreact or miss interpret something I say. When my parents are stressed out it makes me repentantive and want to change things. IMO, having my parents very angry at me helps me learn.

    But then again constant rage from my parents has caused me to be bitter and angry towards them and the world. There's no easy answer.
    It seems that it is very unnatural and counter intuitive thing to do, to retaliate against one's mother. It might be a genetic block/protection. If offspring hurts or kills parents it dramatically lowers chance of its survival. Otherwords, it is a dumbest thing to do.

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    These are very different times, I suppose, and a very different culture. I was raised in a world where corporal punishment was the norm, and children were by and large respectful of their parents and other people in general. What I see around me now is a proliferation of spoiled, selfish, kids with no respect for anyone, including their parents. I find the way that they speak to their parents appalling. That isn't to say that there weren't abusive parents who took out their frustrations on their children, but I have to say that I never actually saw any of that in "my world" growing up. Perhaps it has a lot to do with alcohol abuse?

    I don't recall my mother every actually "hitting" me, other than a little swat on the behind if I was torturing my little brother or running out into the street. It was her hurt and disappointment and tears that I feared.

    My father was a different story. Not that he made a habit of it...he didn't have to...my father was a very intimidating man of great strength of personality as well as physical strength...not someone to be trifled with, not even by his own children...so normally the look, the raised voice, were enough, especially with a child as "adaptable" as I was.

    The only time that I really remember something approaching actual "corporal" punishment was when I was going through that terrible early adolescence and he heard me really disrespecting my mother. He slapped me hard enough that I lost my balance. I've never forgotten it, or what he said. He told me that it was one thing to disrespect him, but that my mother did everything for me, she sacrificed her life for me, she'd let me walk over her if it would help me, and that if he ever heard me talk to her like that again he'd put me in the hospital. I didn't think even then that he actually meant it, but I never forgot it, and I never spoke to my mother like that again. As for behavior of the sort I see nowadays, it would have been unthinkable.

    I don't believe it did me any harm. I'm the most law abiding person imaginable, respectful of everyone with whom I come into contact (unless they're rude to me first, of course, and even then I know the bounds of civilized behavior), and am by no means a violent woman. Well, unless you call throwing a pot at my husband a couple of times over the years violent. I never aimed to hit him, by the way. He has said he often provoked me deliberately just to see the fireworks! :) I also adored my parents. They were a great blessing, their loss too young a tragedy from which I'll never recover, and I miss them every day, even my hot headed, very formidable father; in fact, I appreciate him even more now than I did then. I just hope I've done half the job they did at parenting.

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    "Large, peer-reviewed studies repeatedly show that the more children are hit, the more likely they are to hit others, including peers and siblings. As adults, they are more likely to hit their spouses. The more parents spank children for antisocial behavior, the more the antisocial behavior increases. All of the peer reviewed studies being published continue to confirm these findings."

    http://www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/positive-discipline/should-I-spank-my-child
    Last edited by Maleth; 02-05-15 at 18:59. Reason: highlighting text

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    I approve of what she did. Modern society is just too pussified.
    Is this what you mean by the pussification of modern society?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5XED8Apao
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_F-lPtpDgw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1DZ3PZrLOc

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    And yet parents need some tools to correct behavior of kids, when explanation, begging and scare tactics fail. What do we have left, the carrot and the stick, pleasure and pain? I'm not advocating constant slapping, or really hurting or injuring kids, I barely did light corporal punishment myself few times in my life, mostly turning to raised voice, shouting or long monologues, for educational help. I wasn't fun of psychological punishments either, like dark room, closet, separation from group, pretending not to love kids, etc. Perhaps some psychological punishments might be more damaging to kids than some light spanking, which probably isn't? Though the truth is that spanking mostly will hurt pride of a child than his/her buttocks.
    My thoughts are rather erratic and not settled in this department, and most of my disciplining efforts ended up with me shouting at kids, more than anything else, and all of this was hurting me more than kids, lol. I'm glad my kids were good and I didn't need to master the discipline chapter of good parenting book. Except the times when they where viciously fighting each other and the early adolescences.

    Though, many parents are not that lucky, have terrible kids, and they might reserve to something more drastic, to keep kids in check and away from danger. On these grounds I'm not totally against corporal punishment, as long as kids are not injured, or punishment not resembling everyday constant senseless slapping.

    There is another thing why physical punishment might be a better option than psychological one. It is done instantly, with instant reaction of recipient, and no need for long term scheduling. On other hand if kids are forbidden to watch TV for couple of weeks, as a punishment, it is rather hard to administer when both parents are busy. Probably after few days nobody remembers about this, and the punishment looses it sting and reputation.

    Of course, we can always send kids to psychologist and expect miracles. :)


    When addressing post #1, I wonder what would be the reaction of this kid, if she only went there and talked to him? Perhaps by this slapping, which didn't hurt much of this almost adult, he understood that his mother is not kidding, and resistance is futile? I'm not sure what I would be my reaction, if I have found my son in such predicament. I'm lucky not to find out, I guess.

    At the end I would like to agree with you, that I hate people slapping kids. These are my feelings, but I'm not sure slapping or spanking is a bad thing.
    A clear and well considered view, LeBrok.
    First off let me say I`m not speaking about the child who has had one or perhaps two light slaps over the course of their childhood. I`m talking about corporal punishment being the set method of discipline across the childs upbringing. I am not, personally, in favour of this and I don`t honestly believe it has much to recommend it in regards of being useful. Another thing which concerns me is the fact that hitting/spanking may become less effective over time..where do we go from there? Perhaps some might hit harder or longer? I remember a point made by the psychologist George Holden, where he said in his experience, some child abuse cases start off as disciplining which gets out of control..of course that`s a worse case scenario.
    Tulane University did a study a few years ago regarding child spanking. They used a sample size of 2,500 children and showed that those spanked at the age of 3 were more likely to be aggressive and hit others by the age of 5.
    Other studies show much the same and again that spanking is no more effective a tool than a time out.[Gershoff and Grogan-Kaylor 2013] To add to this is the fact it can cause some to be resentful of the parent ..Fire Haired states he feels bitter regarding such. It also causes, in a lot of cases, the parent to feel terrible..you yourself felt bad, and that was only for shouting. Also what are we really teaching when we smack..only that a certain behaviour is wrong,often no example of a better behaviour is given. Children have not the same reasoning skills as adults, we should show better behaviour by example.
    Children need to learn right from wrong, need to learn boundaries and as parents we are the first who get to show this, at home when they are young. If smacking is no more useful than a loss of privilege or time-out as means of discipline, if it may make a child feel resentful or me feel bad for doing so, then I prefer to try other means.
    Raising children is not an easy job, it is demanding both physically and mentally, especially if someone has two or more charging around. It is often exhausting , yet we still go the extra mile for them when needed. If they do well as young adults, we hardly ever say, well done us. If however they do wrong then right off we look to blame ourselves...were we too harsh, not harsh enough, did we not teach the right lessons..etc?
    All we can do is make the decision we feel is right for us at any particular time and for me, I don`t agree with hitting. I don`t think as adults it is right for us to hit each other, I don`t think it is right if we mistreat the less able in society ... I don`t think it is right that we hit children... Just my views..
    Last edited by hope; 03-05-15 at 20:05. Reason: correction of link.

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    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Templar's Avatar
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    23-10-11
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    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Modern Western men are effeminate and weak. Their ancestors weep in their graves.

  23. #23
    Elite member Fire Haired14's Avatar
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    Country: USA - Illinois



    Anyone notice how half the cops facing charges for Freddie Grey's death are African-American? There were African-American cops involved in "I can't breathe death" too. So, what evidence is there that these death are the result of white racism? There's no evidence in Micheal Brown's death that racism is involved, and the evidence suggested the death wasn't even unjust.

    I know there's racism in Police and abuse, but most of these cases coming up recently aren't examples. The illogical conclusions and tribal-warfare-like mindsets of people relating to these deaths is racism to, and needs to be dealt with. There wouldn't be any protests if the media wasn't covering the story like they are. This is an artificial movement created by the media. This sin't some type of home roots movement fighting an establishment, they have the support of the establishment.

  24. #24
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
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    22-03-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    Modern Western men are effeminate and weak. Their ancestors weep in their graves.
    Yes join the likes of Isis, boko haram and Al sheebab and behead people on Beaches. Only way for stability and world order.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Templar's Avatar
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    23-10-11
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Paleolithic European
    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Yes join the likes of Isis, boko haram and Al sheebab and behead people on Beaches. Only way for stability and world order.
    That's going from one extreme to another. Men should behave like they did 60 years ago.

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