Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Age estimates of T ( ydna )

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Age estimates of T ( ydna )

    CT-M168 formed 84300 ybp, TMRCA 68300 ybp
    CF-P143 formed 68300 ybp, TMRCA 65700 ybp
    F-M89 formed 65700 ybp, TMRCA 48200 ybp
    GHIJK-M3658 formed 48200 ybp, TMRCA 48000 ybp
    HIJK-M578 formed 48000 ybp, TMRCA 48000 ybp

    K - P128/PF5504 formed 46700 ybp, TMRCA 44600 ybp
    • K*
    • LT - PF5531/M2425 * L298/P326 * CTS3648/M2493, formed 44600 ybp, TMRCA 42000 ybp
      • L - Y5514 , formed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 16500 ybp
      • T - CTS10618 * Y3821 * PF5610., formed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 36700 ybp




    The TMRCA of T ( ydna ) is 20000 years older than L ( ydna ) even though they originated together under LT ydna marker
    Last edited by Sile; 02-05-15 at 03:10.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  2. #2
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,254
    Points
    41,765
    Level
    63
    Points: 41,765, Level: 63
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 1,185
    Overall activity: 63.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    both L and T split right after formation, but the splitted tribes did not survive till today
    36700 years ago, T* split from T1 and people from both branches survived till today
    30000 years ago some T1* survived
    next split was 15800 years ago

    TCTS10618 * Y3821 * PF5575... 262 SNPsformed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 36700 ybp
    • T*
    • T1L490 * L206formed 36700 ybp, TMRCA 30000 ybp
      • T1*
      • T1aPAGE78 * M70/PAGE46/PF5662formed 30000 ybp, TMRCA 15800 ybp

  3. #3
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    both L and T split right after formation, but the splitted tribes did not survive till today
    36700 years ago, T* split from T1 and people from both branches survived till today
    30000 years ago some T1* survived
    next split was 15800 years ago

    TCTS10618 * Y3821 * PF5575... 262 SNPsformed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 36700 ybp
    • T*
    • T1L490 * L206formed 36700 ybp, TMRCA 30000 ybp
      • T1*
      • T1aPAGE78 * M70/PAGE46/PF5662formed 30000 ybp, TMRCA 15800 ybp


    thanks

    Interesting that the age of T in the Levant is 13500 years ago
    - the southern Arabian peninsula 2500 years ago
    - Egypt is 11000 years ago


    L and its "missing" 20000 years from T would be interesting to find out

  4. #4
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,254
    Points
    41,765
    Level
    63
    Points: 41,765, Level: 63
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 1,185
    Overall activity: 63.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    thanks

    Interesting that the age of T in the Levant is 13500 years ago
    - the southern Arabian peninsula 2500 years ago
    - Egypt is 11000 years ago
    interesting, where did you find this info?


    [/QUOTE] L and its "missing" 20000 years from T would be interesting to find out[/QUOTE]

    please note, L2 and L1b are missing on the YFull Tree
    L2 is European

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    [QUOTE=bicicleur;456245]interesting, where did you find this info?


    paper by Luis
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/


    it was 1600 years ago for the southern arabian area....so I was wrong


    but since the Dulik 2011 paper has found 38% of T in then , somewhere around north of the himalyans seems the best fit for the break of T and L

    Also - the TL union has origins in the sind valley of Kashmir ( north India )



    The one issue I have for myself as per my markers is that it states..........
    Possible time of origin 19,000-30,000 years BP[1]
    Possible place of origin West Asia[1][2]
    Ancestor LT
    Descendants T-M193


    Testing from 3 different companies has found I am negative for T-M193 , but I am positive for the LT marker P326

  6. #6
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,254
    Points
    41,765
    Level
    63
    Points: 41,765, Level: 63
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 1,185
    Overall activity: 63.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    have you been tested for T-M184 ? or L-M20 ?
    I see you state your Y-DNA as CTS12108 ; where does this SNP fit in the tree ?
    the Luis paper is dated 2004 and based on STR analyses, I don't think their ages are very accurate
    I associate T with cattle herders
    maybe they domesticated the auroch in Anatolia 10500 years ago and the zebu in India 7000 years ago
    so, I think T entered Africa with cattle coming from Anatolia 8000 - 8500 years ago (just like R1b-V88 did)
    you can see in the YFull tree, each of the 3 branches T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3 have expansions between 8 and 9000 years ago
    and T seems to have spread very far : Africa, India, Arabia, Europe, but I don't find anything about the spread of the subclcades
    do you have sources for that?

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    have you been tested for T-M184 ? or L-M20 ?
    I see you state your Y-DNA as CTS12108 ; where does this SNP fit in the tree ?
    the Luis paper is dated 2004 and based on STR analyses, I don't think their ages are very accurate
    I associate T with cattle herders
    maybe they domesticated the auroch in Anatolia 10500 years ago and the zebu in India 7000 years ago
    so, I think T entered Africa with cattle coming from Anatolia 8000 - 8500 years ago (just like R1b-V88 did)
    you can see in the YFull tree, each of the 3 branches T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3 have expansions between 8 and 9000 years ago
    and T seems to have spread very far : Africa, India, Arabia, Europe, but I don't find anything about the spread of the subclcades
    do you have sources for that?
    Ftdna and 23andme do not test for T-M184 ( well they do not give your answers for it , it is presumed ) they test for T-M70, but natgeno did and I am T-M184+ ................ftdna still did not accept this after I transferred my natgeno to them ............they state , it was not necessary to update my tree

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post450991

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Looking through the amended Paolo Francalacci sardinian paper,
    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1756-0500/8/174

    I found that of all the T1a in Sardinia , only 2 where from the T1a-L131 branch, all the others where from the T1a-L208 branch L208/PAGE2 * L905formed 14900 ybp, TMRCA 8600 ybp

    All where L905( apart form the L131 ones )

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •