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Thread: R1a1 found in Bronze age warrior from Poland

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    R1a1 found in Bronze age warrior from Poland

    Real post is below.
    Last edited by Fire Haired14; 04-05-15 at 13:31.

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    Bronze age warrior from Poland had R1a1


    Above is a reconstruction of the R1a1-bearing warrior from Bronze age Rogali, Poland(Southeast corner of Poland) with his equipment. He may be an ancestor of Balto-Slavs. He is reported as R1a1 based on his Y-STR profile and being positive for Y-SNP R1a1-SRY 1532.2 and negative for IJ and N1c1 Y SNPs.

    In the future researchers plan on testing the coding region of the mtDNAs(they already tested HV1+2) to further define their haplogroup status, find which R1a1 subclade the warrior belonged to, and test SNPs associated with pigmentation.

    The previous report that the warrior was "dark complected" was purely based on a high amount of mtDNA H in these Bronze age Poles, no pigmentation SNPs were tested. Pigmentation SNPs tested in R1-bearing Germans from several hundred years before this Polish man though do suggest Central-East Euros back then were significantly darker than their modern descendants(see here).

    mtDNA was taken from his site and I think others near him. I added the results to this spreadsheet of Ancient European mtDNA(linked below).

    Davidski posted an article about it(see here) and says Polish archaeologist think the culture(Strzyżow) this R1a1-bearing warrior came from was a mix of non-IE locals and IE-speakers from the steppe.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=189296392

    This Bronze age Pole is one of many Late Neolithic/Bronze age R1a samples from cultures said to be early Indo Europeans in each of their regions.
    >R1a1a-SRY10831.2(not tested downstream)=2, Eulau Germany 2600BC. Corded ware culture.
    >R1a1a1-M417*=1. Esperstedt Germany 2473-2348 BC. Corded ware culture.
    >R1a1-SRY 1532.2=1. Rogali, Poland 2000BC. Strzyżow culture.
    >R1a1a-M198(xZ93)=7. Xiaohe, Xinjiang China 1980±40 BC. Afanasevo culture?
    >R1a1a-M17(not tested downsteam)=2. Krasnoyarsk region of Siberia 1,400-1,800BC. Andronovo culture.
    >R1a1a1b2-Z93=3. Tsagaan Asga, Mongolia 1371BC.
    >R1a1a1b1a2-Z280=1. Halberstadt Germany 1113-1021BC. Urnfield culture.
    >R1a1(based on Y-str)=2. Lichtenstein Cave Germany 1000BC. Urnfield culture.

    Here's an article about the warrior translated from Polish to English(using Google translate). Here's the original article.


    A well-preserved tomb of a warrior with weapons of the early Bronze Age , ie before the almost 4 thousand . years old , was discovered in Rogalin ( Lublin ) . In the same place archaeologists previously dug up the grave of the princess with rich ornaments. At the cemetery in Rogalin near Hrubieszów , near the Polish -Ukrainian border , was discovered during ongoing for four years of archaeological research 11 tombs from the early Bronze Age. Most of them were richly equipped with bronze ornaments and utensils - as three graves discovered in August of this year. Among them is the tomb of a warrior.

    At the cemetery in Rogalin near Hrubieszów , near the Polish -Ukrainian border , was discovered during ongoing for four years of archaeological research 11 tombs from the early Bronze Age. Most of them were richly equipped with bronze ornaments and utensils - as three graves discovered in August of this year. Among them is the tomb of a warrior.

    At the cemetery in Rogalin near Hrubieszów , near the Polish -Ukrainian border , was discovered during ongoing for four years of archaeological research 11 tombs from the early Bronze Age. Most of them were richly equipped with bronze ornaments and utensils - as three graves discovered in August of this year. Among them is the tomb of a warrior.

    Hyrchała announced that the skeleton is subjected to anthropological studies that explain what the growth was a man , whether and on what was ill , perhaps even - as he died . The plan is to reconstruct the appearance of his face , as well as preserved skull.


    The tomb of the warrior - as reported by archaeologist - found 15 flint arrowheads and flint spear . It had to be filed - Hyrchała suspects - including a wooden arch that has been degraded , like wooden items javelin and shot . The tomb also found flint sickle to cut grain, a pin with a hole - apparently used to fasten the jacket , bony plates - which could serve as a belt buckle.

    This year, archaeologists have discovered the graves of the cemetery also two boys [ in fact these people sex is not known, there has been here for journalistic distortion - HR ] , one of which was about 10 years old, the other was a few years older . Found at these decorative pendants shell cockles , mussels or genre , and copper , faience beads and distinctive dishes - decorated with imprints of the rope and chropowacone , or rub before burning bundle of grass.

    Hyrchała said that a year ago was discovered in the same position grave princess. - We named it so because of the extremely large number of rich ornaments, including copper , very valuable in the Bronze Age - she explained. Among them was the earrings of copper sheet metal and wire , worn on the head, on the band and headband . Found here also 80 beads and a few hangers with cockles , which could create a necklace . The skeleton in the grave is preserved in bad condition , it consisted only of a skull and a few vertebrae.

    Monuments from the tomb of Princess have already undergone maintenance and will in future be displayed in the permanent exhibition archaeological museum in Hrubieszow , like other monuments of Rogalin . The cemetery in Rogalin strzyżowski belongs to the culture that developed between 2000 and the year 1600 BC. Its name comes from the name of the village in the district Hrubieszów , Strzyżowa , where in the 50s of the twentieth century the settlement from this period. It included the area of ​​today's Volyn in the Ukraine and eastern Lublin region.

    People of culture strzyżowski assumed deposits primarily in the valley of the River Bug, dealt with agriculture and animal husbandry . Cemeteries were created on hills and slopes . Hrubieszów Museum . Fr. . St. Science and Technology conducts research excavations in the cemetery of the Early Bronze Age in Rogalin ( gm . Horodło ) , in collaboration with the Institute of Archaeology MCSU beginning in 2008 . This year's season ended a few days ago . The studies will continue perhaps even in autumn this year. The text comes from the website Science in Poland . The study can also be read on pages Museum . AGH University of Science Hrubieszow.
    Last edited by Fire Haired14; 04-05-15 at 03:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post

    Above is a reconstruction of the R1a1-bearing warrior from Bronze age Rogali, Poland(Southeast corner of Poland) with his equipment. He may be an ancestor of Balto-Slavs. He is reported as R1a1 based on his Y-STR profile and being positive for Y-SNP R1a1-SRY 1532.2 and negative for IJ and N1c1 Y SNPs.

    In the future researchers plan on testing the coding region of the mtDNAs(they already tested HV1+2) to further define their haplogroup status, find which R1a1 subclade the warrior belonged to, and test SNPs associated with pigmentation.

    The previous report that the warrior was "dark complected" was purely based on a high amount of mtDNA H in these Bronze age Poles, no pigmentation SNPs were tested. Pigmentation SNPs tested in R1-bearing Germans from several hundred years before this Polish man though do suggest Central-East Euros back then were significantly darker than their modern descendants(see here).

    mtDNA was taken from his site and I think others near him. I added the results to this spreadsheet of Ancient European mtDNA(linked below).

    Davidski posted an article about it(see here) and says Polish archaeologist think the culture(Strzyżow) this R1a1-bearing warrior came from was a mix of non-IE locals and IE-speakers from the steppe.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=189296392

    This Bronze age Pole is one of many Late Neolithic/Bronze age R1a samples from cultures said to be early Indo Europeans in each of their regions.
    >R1a1a-SRY10831.2(not tested downstream)=2, Eulau Germany 2600BC. Corded ware culture.
    >R1a1a1-M417*=1. Esperstedt Germany 2473-2348 BC. Corded ware culture.
    >R1a1-SRY 1532.2=1. Rogali, Poland 2000BC. Strzyżow culture.
    >R1a1a-M198(xZ93)=7. Xiaohe, Xinjiang China 1980±40 BC. Afanasevo culture?
    >R1a1a-M17(not tested downsteam)=2. Krasnoyarsk region of Siberia 1,400-1,800BC. Andronovo culture.
    >R1a1a1b2-Z93=3. Tsagaan Asga, Mongolia 1371BC.
    >R1a1a1b1a2-Z280=1. Halberstadt Germany 1113-1021BC. Urnfield culture.
    >R1a1(based on Y-str)=2. Lichtenstein Cave Germany 1000BC. Urnfield culture.

    Here's an article about the warrior translated from Polish to English(using Google translate). Here's the original article.
    would he not be FINNI instead of some linguistic concept of balto-slavic............Tacitus, Ptolemy and other ancient historians all place the Finni in the area in question.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    I guess it was the most probably haplo for time and place :)

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    Fenni appeared in the picture during iron age and probalby via a more eastern route

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post

    Above is a reconstruction of the R1a1-bearing warrior from Bronze age Rogali, Poland(Southeast corner of Poland) with his equipment. He may be an ancestor of Balto-Slavs. He is reported as R1a1 based on his Y-STR profile and being positive for Y-SNP R1a1-SRY 1532.2 and negative for IJ and N1c1 Y SNPs.

    In the future researchers plan on testing the coding region of the mtDNAs(they already tested HV1+2) to further define their haplogroup status, find which R1a1 subclade the warrior belonged to, and test SNPs associated with pigmentation. The previous report that the warrior was "dark complected" was purely based on a high amount of mtDNA H in these Bronze age Poles, no pigmentation SNPs were tested. Pigmentation SNPs tested in R1-bearing Germans from several hundred years before this Polish man though do suggest Central-East Euros back then were significantly darker than their modern descendants(see here).

    mtDNA was taken from his site and I think others near him. I added the results to this spreadsheet of Ancient European mtDNA. Davidski posted an article about it(see here) and says Polish archaeologist think the culture(Strzyżow) this R1a1-bearing warrior came from was a mix of non-IE locals and IE-speakers from the steppe.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=189296392

    This Bronze age Pole is one of many Late Neolithic/Bronze age R1a samples from cultures said to be early Indo Europeans in each of their regions.
    >R1a1a-SRY10831.2(not tested downstream)=2, Eulau Germany 2600BC. Corded ware culture.
    >R1a1a1-M417*=1. Esperstedt Germany 2473-2348 BC. Corded ware culture.
    >R1a1-SRY 1532.2=1. Rogali, Poland 2000BC. Strzyżow culture.
    >R1a1a-M198(xZ93)=7. Xiaohe, Xinjiang China 1980±40 BC. Afanasevo culture?
    >R1a1a-M17(not tested downsteam)=2. Krasnoyarsk region of Siberia 1,400-1,800BC. Andronovo culture.
    >R1a1a1b2-Z93=3. Tsagaan Asga, Mongolia 1371BC.
    >R1a1a1b1a2-Z280=1. Halberstadt Germany 1113-1021BC. Urnfield culture.
    >R1a1(based on Y-str)=2. Lichtenstein Cave Germany 1000BC. Urnfield culture.

    Here's an article about the warrior translated from Polish to English(using Google translate). Here's the original article.


    At the cemetery in Rogalin near Hrubieszów , near the Polish -Ukrainian border , was discovered during ongoing for four years of archaeological research 11 tombs from the early Bronze Age. Most of them were richly equipped with bronze ornaments and utensils - as three graves discovered in August of this year. Among them is the tomb of a warrior.

    At the cemetery in Rogalin near Hrubieszów , near the Polish -Ukrainian border , was discovered during ongoing for four years of archaeological research 11 tombs from the early Bronze Age. Most of them were richly equipped with bronze ornaments and utensils - as three graves discovered in August of this year. Among them is the tomb of a warrior.

    At the cemetery in Rogalin near Hrubieszów , near the Polish -Ukrainian border , was discovered during ongoing for four years of archaeological research 11 tombs from the early Bronze Age. Most of them were richly equipped with bronze ornaments and utensils - as three graves discovered in August of this year. Among them is the tomb of a warrior.

    Hyrchała announced that the skeleton is subjected to anthropological studies that explain what the growth was a man , whether and on what was ill , perhaps even - as he died . The plan is to reconstruct the appearance of his face , as well as preserved skull.


    The tomb of the warrior - as reported by archaeologist - found 15 flint arrowheads and flint spear . It had to be filed - Hyrchała suspects - including a wooden arch that has been degraded , like wooden items javelin and shot . The tomb also found flint sickle to cut grain, a pin with a hole - apparently used to fasten the jacket , bony plates - which could serve as a belt buckle.

    This year, archaeologists have discovered the graves of the cemetery also two boys [ in fact these people sex is not known, there has been here for journalistic distortion - HR ] , one of which was about 10 years old, the other was a few years older . Found at these decorative pendants shell cockles , mussels or genre , and copper , faience beads and distinctive dishes - decorated with imprints of the rope and chropowacone , or rub before burning bundle of grass.

    Hyrchała said that a year ago was discovered in the same position grave princess. - We named it so because of the extremely large number of rich ornaments, including copper , very valuable in the Bronze Age - she explained. Among them was the earrings of copper sheet metal and wire , worn on the head, on the band and headband . Found here also 80 beads and a few hangers with cockles , which could create a necklace . The skeleton in the grave is preserved in bad condition , it consisted only of a skull and a few vertebrae.

    Monuments from the tomb of Princess have already undergone maintenance and will in future be displayed in the permanent exhibition archaeological museum in Hrubieszow , like other monuments of Rogalin . The cemetery in Rogalin strzyżowski belongs to the culture that developed between 2000 and the year 1600 BC. Its name comes from the name of the village in the district Hrubieszów , Strzyżowa , where in the 50s of the twentieth century the settlement from this period. It included the area of ​​today's Volyn in the Ukraine and eastern Lublin region.

    People of culture strzyżowski assumed deposits primarily in the valley of the River Bug, dealt with agriculture and animal husbandry . Cemeteries were created on hills and slopes . Hrubieszów Museum . Fr. . St. Science and Technology conducts research excavations in the cemetery of the Early Bronze Age in Rogalin ( gm . Horodło ) , in collaboration with the Institute of Archaeology MCSU beginning in 2008 . This year's season ended a few days ago . The studies will continue perhaps even in autumn this year. The text comes from the website Science in Poland . The study can also be read on pages Museum . AGH University of Science Hrubieszow.
    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the info, Fire-Haired. I can't seem to find the reconstruction, though.


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    Thanks for the info, Fire-Haired. I can't seem to find the reconstruction, though.
    It's in the original post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    It's in the original post.
    I see neither a picture nor a link. Just saying.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Reconstruction below:

    http://polishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/20...rrior.html?m=0

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidski
    Ancient DNA tests on a skeleton from an Early Bronze Age warrior grave near Hrubieszow, southeastern Poland, have revealed that the remains belong to Y-haplogroup R1a1a [source].

    Mitochondrial sequences were also obtained from seven other samples from the same burial site, and assigned to mt-haplogroups H1a, H1b (two), H2a (two), H6 and U5b1.

    R1a1a is by far the most frequent Y-haplogroup in Poland today (...)
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ll=1#post82547

    Quote Originally Posted by Artmar
    Bronze age warior was estimated to be 1.70 high and his weight was estimated to be 72-76 kg. It's me, for a comparison (~193cm, ~90kg)

    He posessed haplogroup R1a1, predicted through his y-STR profile that is clearly R1a and somewhere downstream of M417>Z645, probably Z280 (but other options like Z282* or PF6155xM458 and even Z93 can't be excluded at this moment).
    I've received contradictory info on whether he is positive to SRY 1532.2 or not(unpopular, non-widely used upstream SNP) but haplotype is unmistakably R1a and he will be tested for much more Y-SNPs in the future.


    His pigmentation is a fantasy, allele for a pigmentation of hair, eyes and skin are to be tested soon.

    Photo:

    This is yet another nail to the coffin with "East Germanic" corpse.

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14
    >R1a1a1b1a2-Z280=1. Halberstadt Germany 1113-1021BC. Urnfield culture.
    Urnfield was never a single culture. There were Urnfield cultures, it was a type of cultures (Urnfield cultural horizon).

    That R1a-Z280 from Halberstadt (in East Germany) belonged to the Lusatian culture, which was one of Urnfield cultures.

    The Lusatian culture at its peak extended from Western Ukraine to East Germany, with its heart located in Poland.

    The most famous of archaeological sites of the Lusatian culture is Biskupin in Wielkopolska (Greater Poland):

    Here is a documentary (in English) about Biskupin:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc_KLJrD054


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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    The R1a-Z280 burial from Halberstadt was part of the Lusatian culture, but as you can see it was peripherial (while Biskupin was in the central part):



    The area around Rogalin near Hrubieszów, close to the Polish-Ukrainian border - where this warrior was buried - also became part of the Lusatian culture later on. But this warrior is from the earlier Bronze Age and predates the existence of the Lusatian culture, which emerged during the later Bronze Age.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    He was about 47 when he died. He was buried with a "princess" (named so due to rich grave goods), aged about 20:


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    Thanks for the info Tomenable. What you're saying makes sense. Most of Balto-Slavs ancestors I guess were probably in their own world mixing together, since CWC. Even after German migration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    He was about 47 when he died. He was buried with a "princess" (named so due to rich grave goods), aged about 20:

    I read an article which stated he had a young paternal relative buried with him or in a near by his grave. They know because of Y-STR. It could be his son, nephew, etc. Maybe the Princess is his daughter or another young female relative. The experts should get an idea what their relation is soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Urnfield was never a single culture. There were Urnfield cultures, it was a type of cultures (Urnfield cultural horizon).

    That R1a-Z280 from Halberstadt (in East Germany) belonged to the Lusatian culture, which was one of Urnfield cultures.

    The Lusatian culture at its peak extended from Western Ukraine to East Germany, with its heart located in Poland.

    The most famous of archaeological sites of the Lusatian culture is Biskupin in Wielkopolska (Greater Poland):

    Here is a documentary (in English) about Biskupin:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc_KLJrD054

    Commanding reconstruction of all material culture, with tools and methods. Next time I'm in Poland I'm going there.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Burials from Rogalin near Hrubieszów (Strzyżów culture, part of the Corded Ware horizon):

    "Archaeology and art" exposition:



    A warrior (R1a1a haplogroup):









    A "princess":



    Not sure if this is her, or another woman:





    A boy (R1a1a):



    A girl (with a necklace made of a wild boar's tusk):



    Other burials - note this woman buried with a horse:



    SOURCE - this gallery:

    http://lubiehrubie.pl/wiadomosci/hru...rzed-4-tys-lat

    =========================

    Warrior's skeleton:

    Last edited by Tomenable; 08-05-15 at 15:31.

  17. #17
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    concerning Làng Barrows in far southwest Poland surprising

    pm.revues.org › ... › Colloque › L'organisation spatiale de la néc...






    de A Przybył - ‎2014 - ‎Autres articles
    A surprising discovery was made in 1995 in the Muszkowice Forest, ... in France on the Plaine de Caen, along the river valleys of the Yonne and Seine, and ...

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    "Newly recorded Neolithic earthen long barrows in Southern Poland" A. Przybyl 2014

    I find interesting possible links (already mentioned) between Long Barrows Culture and the subsequent culture of the Funnelbeaker/Tricherbecher -
    it recalls me COON saying the Swedish Neolithic people had a 50% phenotypicial imput of Long Barrows people, surely coming from Britain but maybe (his words) too from Russia, coming across lands (a remote South Caucasus connexion?) - I've not sufficient knowledge of Archeology on this matter and I don't know where COON had picked his thought... the ressemblance of this Y-R1a skull AND face (R1a not my prefered bet I confess) of Poland with the typical Long Barrows types (except occiput profile form) is a strange coincidence. and metrically speaking, the most striking modification of the so called "kymric Iron age nordic type of COON compared to classical 'nordic' could very well have been caused by crossings with this element among Long Barrows peoploe, plus some other light influences so? Perhaps pure coincidence or some far common origin?
    by the way the first Slavic elites were of two principal type: one more akin to 'nordic' (classical) so partly to Corded types, and one akin to the 'lymric' type - (some Scythians too, not all) - my Joker? Wait and see! good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    This is yet another nail to the coffin with "East Germanic" corpse.

    What corpse? What coffin?

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