Angela
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Carmi, Xue paper on "The Time and Place of European Gene Flow into Ashkenazi Jews"
We'll have to wait fro the paper, which was also presented at the Cold Spring Harbor conference, but this is the poster, which is pretty informative:
https://shaicarmi.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/aj_admixture_poster.pdf
I don't see anything that different, as the 37% or so figure has been posited already. Of that 37%, they claim that 75% is of southern European origin, and the remainder from eastern Europe.
As for the timing, some of their methods give an estimate of around 20 generations. Using a figure of 30 years per generation, which I think is pretty standard, that's about 1400 AD, which is a pretty good fit for the arrival of the Jews in eastern Europe. They also posit a 30 generation possibility for the admixture, which is around 1100 AD, or when they are attested in Germany. Only with the 30-40 generation estimate they get with Alder do you get to around 800 AD, which is when some sources attest their presence in northern Italy.
It seems to me that all of these dating methods tend to emphasize the "last" date of admixture. So, it's still unclear to me that the admixture event with "southern European" can actually be dated to even 800 AD, although it's possible. What makes me suspect perhaps it was somewhat earlier is the fact that Judaism was a proselytizing religion during late antiquity and there are reports of conversions among Greeks, and, to a lesser extent, among Romans from that period and I wonder if some of this "southern European" admixture may date to that period.
Also, to the best of my recollection, wasn't there an IBD analysis that showed a correlation with Greek dna rather than Italian dna? I'll try to locate that analysis if I have some time.
There's been a lot of uninformed, agenda driven commentary on this paper that I'm not even going to bother to address, since it wasn't posted here. Suffice it to say that in my opinion any theory that Ashkenazi Jews have no Levantine roots is unsupported by autosomal dna, but also by yDna.
We'll have to wait fro the paper, which was also presented at the Cold Spring Harbor conference, but this is the poster, which is pretty informative:
https://shaicarmi.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/aj_admixture_poster.pdf
I don't see anything that different, as the 37% or so figure has been posited already. Of that 37%, they claim that 75% is of southern European origin, and the remainder from eastern Europe.
As for the timing, some of their methods give an estimate of around 20 generations. Using a figure of 30 years per generation, which I think is pretty standard, that's about 1400 AD, which is a pretty good fit for the arrival of the Jews in eastern Europe. They also posit a 30 generation possibility for the admixture, which is around 1100 AD, or when they are attested in Germany. Only with the 30-40 generation estimate they get with Alder do you get to around 800 AD, which is when some sources attest their presence in northern Italy.
It seems to me that all of these dating methods tend to emphasize the "last" date of admixture. So, it's still unclear to me that the admixture event with "southern European" can actually be dated to even 800 AD, although it's possible. What makes me suspect perhaps it was somewhat earlier is the fact that Judaism was a proselytizing religion during late antiquity and there are reports of conversions among Greeks, and, to a lesser extent, among Romans from that period and I wonder if some of this "southern European" admixture may date to that period.
Also, to the best of my recollection, wasn't there an IBD analysis that showed a correlation with Greek dna rather than Italian dna? I'll try to locate that analysis if I have some time.
There's been a lot of uninformed, agenda driven commentary on this paper that I'm not even going to bother to address, since it wasn't posted here. Suffice it to say that in my opinion any theory that Ashkenazi Jews have no Levantine roots is unsupported by autosomal dna, but also by yDna.