Dodecad 12b - Maltese results

[HQ420832]

Here are (for the first time I think) the Dodecad 12b results for of a friend from Malta (all known ancestors from Malta). Not surprisingly, his results are quite similar to Sicilians but with a higher African component (North/West/East=8.0% vs 5.0%) quite similar to Portuguese (8.5%).

Component	Maltese	Sicilian_D
Caucasus	34.8	36.5
Atlantic_Med	25.3	30
Southwest_Asian	13.2	11.9
North_European	11.5	11.9
Gedrosia	6.8	4.5
Northwest_African	6.1	4.1
Sub_Saharan	1.0	0.2
East_African	0.9	0.7
South_Asian	0.2	0.1
East_Asian	0.2	0.0
Southeast_Asian	0.1	0.0
Siberian	0.0	0.0

Same for Dodecad Globe 13:

Component	Maltese	Sicilian_D
Mediterranean	36.4	40.6
West_Asian	24.9	23.6
Southwest_Asian	19.5	17.3
North_European	15	16.5
East_African	1.7	0.5
West_African	1.3	1
Palaeo_African	0.0	0.2
Australasian	0.5	0.2
East_Asian	0.5	0.1
Siberian	0.2	0.0
South_Asian	0.0	0.0
Amerindian	0.0	0.0
Arctic	0.0	0.0

[Hauteville]

Yes it's like i have seen in Lazaridis, basically Sicilians with a bit more NA and South West Asian admix.
Maltese are probably very close with Pantellerians and Lampedusans.

Here we have collected some results for Sicilians and mainlander southern Italians, if you want a comparison.

http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/...1#.VVMsXvntmko

[Maleth]

Here are (for the first time I think) the Dodecad 12b results for of a friend from Malta (all known ancestors from Malta). Not surprisingly, his results are quite similar to Sicilians but with a higher African component (North/West/East=8.0% vs 5.0%) quite similar to Portuguese (8.5%).

Component	Maltese	Sicilian_D
Caucasus	34.8	36.5
Atlantic_Med	25.3	30
Southwest_Asian	13.2	11.9
North_European	11.5	11.9
Gedrosia	6.8	4.5
Northwest_African	6.1	4.1
Sub_Saharan	1.0	0.2
East_African	0.9	0.7
South_Asian	0.2	0.1
East_Asian	0.2	0.0
Southeast_Asian	0.1	0.0
Siberian	0.0	0.0

Same for Dodecad Globe 13:

These are my Dodecad run on 12b which I posted on 5th February. :-

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Atlantic_Med	28.76
2	Caucasus	28.66
3	North_European	16.86
4	Southwest_Asian	10.52
5	Northwest_African	7.06
6	Gedrosia	5.85
7	East_African	1.10

Has your friend tested with Ftdna? Maybe he would be interested to join the Malta Project https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults. If all companies could pool their results in one project we could have a much more accurate picture then any of the separate studies that have been conducted so far.

Also now that I have learned how these calculators work (thanks to Angela) there is surely lots of fine tuning to be done to get more specific results and are based on particular samples that do not always represent the region to any specification or accuracy.

[Hauteville]

HQ420832 do you have his Eurogenes K13/15 results?

Maleth are you full blooded Maltese?

[Angela]

Maleth, if you don't mind my asking, how does that jive with your scores for North African and East African on 23andme?

I ask because my shares on 23andme from Sicily have much lower NWAfrican and East African than shows up on these calculators.

Ed. Oh dear, I had a minor brain freeze, didn't I? You didn't test with 23andme.
Sorry. :)

[Hauteville]

I think that the scores under 1% are rumours more than other.
23andme use different systems than Dodecad.

[Maleth]

HQ420832 do you have his Eurogenes K13/15 results?

Maleth are you full blooded Maltese?

Interesting question, the only non Maltese I know of at least since medieval times was my great grand father who was English, but all in all I am presuming it counts minimally in an autosmal situation. I believe autosmal covers some 20 generations? (not sure about that either maybe I am wrong). There are some 3% percent of Maltese in this situation, More recently (as in the last 30 years there has been further substantial gene inputs probably similar percentages in the Maltese gene pool from North Africa, Balkans, East and western Europe. In a couple of generations they would not be considered as alien but an admixture.

[Angela]

I think that the scores under 1% are rumours more than other.
23andme use different systems than Dodecad.

Yes, I know they're different systems; the question is which is more accurate.

I'd put my money on 23andme any day.

I also don't know what you mean by scores under 1% for Sicilians on 23andme being "rumours". They're not rumors, they're my shares. :) They may or may not be representative, but they're "real" Sicilians.

These are all from Messina, which I admit might impact the scores given that the mountains near there were relatively autonomous from Muslim rule.

1) 2.4% NAfrican
0% SSA

2.) 2.2% NAfrican
.6% SSA (.3 W. African, .2 East African, .1 Broadly SSA)

3.) 4.1% NAfrican
.3% West African

4) .1% NAfrican
.1% SSA

This Palermo sample also has very low numbers, although there's one Calabrian grandparent in this case.

.2% NAfrican
.1% WAfrican

By the way, is there any sort of reciprocal arrangement so that people who tested with FTDNA can run their results through the 23andme algorithm. I'm not talking about running their results through the gedmatch versions of the various hobbyist calculators, but actually through the 23andme algorithm. I know there's a defunct company that did have that arrangement with 23andme, just don't know if one has been worked out with FTDNA or Ancestry.

Ed. I don't share with anyone from the southern coast where there was more documented actual Berber settlement, so those scores may be very different.

I think for accurate broad autosomal ancestry information you don't need very many samples, but for this kind of very minority ancestry you might see swings from region to region or even town to town, especially given how little movement there was from some of these more isolated rural areas. It's the same situation that you see in some Alpine isolates in Italy. They're not representative of the population as a whole.

[Hauteville]

@Maleth I think a minimal influences there is and in fact you score higher North European than to the other Maltese, maybe it's due to your British grandfather.
I have also myself a distant British ancestry but in the first years of 1800, unlucky I haven't searched down than 1780, so I don't know if I have other foreign ancestries from 1300 to 1750 but Palermo was a cosmopolite city so possibly yes, Aragonese, French or Austrian maybe.

No Angela I don't mean the results of North African scores but the 0.3, 0.2, 0.6 and similar scores of South Asian, SSA and East Asian.
Maybe rumours or prehistoric movements?

[Angela]

@Maleth I think a minimal influences there is and in fact you score higher North European than to the other Maltese, maybe it's due to your British grandfather.
I have also myself a distant British ancestry but in the first years of 1800, unlucky I haven't searched down than 1780, so I don't know if I have other foreign ancestries from 1300 to 1750 but Palermo was a cosmopolite city so possibly yes, Aragonese, French or Austrian maybe.

No Angela I don't mean the results of North African scores but the 0.3, 0.2, 0.6 and similar scores of South Asian, SSA and East Asian.
Maybe rumours or prehistoric movements?

Ah, now I get you...you think that when they're that low they're noise...not representative of real ancestry, or at least not real admixture within, say, the last thousand years or so? Well, 23andme itself cautions against taking these kinds of scores too seriously. I would say anything below .5 is questionable.

However, my point was that calculator scores are often higher. Between the two, I'd go with 23andme any day of the week, at least for ancestry from different continents... Even with the Ashkenazim, it's such a drifted set of genes that they can easily pick it up. Sephardim, etc. are another story. So, if you get a 2% Ashkenazi or SSA score on 23andme, you can take it to the bank as far as I'm concerned.

[Hauteville]

By the way, what is his haplogroup?

[Seanp]

Interesting results. These are Maltese, Southern Italians from Dodecad i recently found:

Full Maltese:

#

	Population	Percent
1	Caucasus	40.78
2	Atlantic_Med	27.22
3	Southwest_Asian	11.39
4	North_European	7.82
5	Northwest_African	5.78
6	Gedrosia	4
7	East_African	2.41
8	Southeast_Asian	0.5
9	Siberian	0.09
10	Sub_Saharan	0.02

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Sephardic_Jews (Behar)	5.98
2	Sicilian (Dodecad)	6.46
3	Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)	6.55
4	Ashkenazi (Dodecad)	6.77
5	S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)	7.07
6	Morocco_Jews (Behar)	9.56
7	Cypriots (Behar)	12.77
8	Greek (Dodecad)	13.05
9	C_Italian (Dodecad)	14.36
10	Turkish (Dodecad)	18.17
11	Tuscan (HGDP)	18.26
12	O_Italian (Dodecad)	18.93
13	TSI30 (Metspalu)	19.67
14	Lebanese (Behar)	19.85
15	Turks (Behar)	20.88
16	Druze (HGDP)	21.03
17	Syrians (Behar)	23.47
18	Jordanians (Behar)	23.78
19	Armenian (Dodecad)	25.02
20	Palestinian (HGDP)	25.11

Campanian from Avellino, Caserta:
#

	Population	Percent
1	Caucasus	32.85
2	Atlantic_Med	29.31
3	Southwest_Asian	13.36
4	North_European	13
5	Gedrosia	7.92
6	Northwest_African	2.67
7	South_Asian	0.32
8	Sub_Saharan	0.29
9	East_African	0.28

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)	4.24
2	Sicilian (Dodecad)	5.08
3	Ashkenazi (Dodecad)	8.16
4	C_Italian (Dodecad)	8.31
5	Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)	8.44
6	Sephardic_Jews (Behar)	9.52
7	Greek (Dodecad)	9.63
8	Morocco_Jews (Behar)	11.25
9	O_Italian (Dodecad)	11.32
10	Tuscan (HGDP)	12
11	TSI30 (Metspalu)	12.98
12	N_Italian (Dodecad)	18.94
13	Cypriots (Behar)	19.05
14	North_Italian (HGDP)	19.98
15	Turkish (Dodecad)	20.99
16	Bulgarian (Dodecad)	22.33
17	Lebanese (Behar)	22.46
18	Bulgarians (Yunusbayev)	22.74
19	Turks (Behar)	23.38
20	Romanians (Behar)	23.61

From Puglia, Fasano:
#

	Population	Percent
1	Caucasus	34
2	Atlantic_Med	26.6
3	North_European	17.8
4	Southwest_Asian	10.88
5	Gedrosia	7.58
6	Northwest_African	2.49
7	East_Asian	0.66

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Greek (Dodecad)	5.92
2	S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)	7.2
3	Sicilian (Dodecad)	7.52
4	Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)	8.16
5	Ashkenazi (Dodecad)	8.53
6	C_Italian (Dodecad)	8.57
7	O_Italian (Dodecad)	9.6
8	Tuscan (HGDP)	12.05
9	Sephardic_Jews (Behar)	13
10	TSI30 (Metspalu)	13.17
11	Morocco_Jews (Behar)	15.37
12	Bulgarian (Dodecad)	17.3
13	Bulgarians (Yunusbayev)	17.82
14	N_Italian (Dodecad)	18.52
15	Romanians (Behar)	18.81
16	Turkish (Dodecad)	19.62
17	Cypriots (Behar)	20.26
18	North_Italian (HGDP)	20.26
19	Turks (Behar)	22.06
20	Lebanese (Behar)	23.75

Reggio Calabria:
#

	Population	Percent
1	Caucasus	35.89
2	Atlantic_Med	30.88
3	Southwest_Asian	13.2
4	Gedrosia	7.43
5	North_European	6.73
6	Northwest_African	3.64
7	East_African	2.22

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)	5.51
2	Sicilian (Dodecad)	5.93
3	Sephardic_Jews (Behar)	6.31
4	Morocco_Jews (Behar)	8.19
5	Ashkenazi (Dodecad)	9.51
6	Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)	9.82
7	C_Italian (Dodecad)	12.11
8	Greek (Dodecad)	14.08
9	Tuscan (HGDP)	15.53
10	Cypriots (Behar)	16.37
11	TSI30 (Metspalu)	16.66
12	O_Italian (Dodecad)	16.69
13	Turkish (Dodecad)	21.01
14	Lebanese (Behar)	21.33
15	N_Italian (Dodecad)	23.13
16	North_Italian (HGDP)	23.42
17	Turks (Behar)	23.46
18	Syrians (Behar)	23.68
19	Druze (HGDP)	23.68
20	Jordanians (Behar)	24.46

Sicilian from Palermo:
#

	Population	Percent
1	Caucasus	34.23
2	Atlantic_Med	24.51
3	North_European	13.68
4	Southwest_Asian	13.34
5	Northwest_African	6.93
6	Gedrosia	5.43
7	Sub_Saharan	1.12
8	Southeast_Asian	0.42
9	South_Asian	0.33
10	East_Asian	0.03

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Ashkenazi (Dodecad)	5.64
2	Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)	5.9
3	Sicilian (Dodecad)	6.69
4	S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)	7.23
5	Sephardic_Jews (Behar)	8.59
6	Morocco_Jews (Behar)	10.02
7	Greek (Dodecad)	10.18
8	C_Italian (Dodecad)	12.09
9	O_Italian (Dodecad)	14.47
10	Tuscan (HGDP)	16.27
11	TSI30 (Metspalu)	17.18
12	Cypriots (Behar)	17.41
13	Turkish (Dodecad)	19.15
14	Lebanese (Behar)	19.78
15	Turks (Behar)	21.38
16	Bulgarian (Dodecad)	21.76
17	Bulgarians (Yunusbayev)	22.26
18	N_Italian (Dodecad)	22.69
19	Syrians (Behar)	22.77
20	Romanians (Behar)	23.33

[Joey D]

Just thought I'd throw mine in:

Caucasus	37.67
Atlantic_Med	25.61
North_European	13.81
Southwest_Asian	10.26
Gedrosia	7.38
Northwest_African	3.67
East_African	1.13
Sub_Saharan	0.45

Single Population:

1	Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)	5.36
2	S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)	5.47
3	Sicilian (Dodecad)	5.56
4	Ashkenazi (Dodecad)	6.29
5	Greek (Dodecad)	7.95
6	Sephardic_Jews (Behar)	9.52
7	C_Italian (Dodecad)	10.89
8	Morocco_Jews (Behar)	12.75
9	O_Italian (Dodecad)	13.7
10	Tuscan (HGDP)	14.8

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Abhkasians + North_Italian + Portuguese + Samaritians @ 1.351221
2 Abhkasians + Castilla_Y_Leon + N_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.517337
3 Abhkasians + Extremadura + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.523689
4 Abhkasians + Canarias + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.583644
5 Abhkasians + Castilla_Y_Leon + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.618618
6 Armenian + Bulgarians + Canarias + Cypriots @ 1.631697
7 Abhkasians + Galicia + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.683491
8 Abhkasians + Murcia + N_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.713063
9 Abhkasians + Canarias + N_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.717037
10 Armenians + Morocco_Jews + O_Italian + O_Italian @ 1.732806

[Petros Agapetos]

These are my Dodecad run on 12b which I posted on 5th February. :-

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Atlantic_Med	28.76
2	Caucasus	28.66
3	North_European	16.86
4	Southwest_Asian	10.52
5	Northwest_African	7.06
6	Gedrosia	5.85
7	East_African	1.10

I wonder, how much did you pay for the test. And how is it done? Did you simply swab the inside of your mouth and send the sample?

[Maleth]

I wonder, how much did you pay for the test. And how is it done? Did you simply swab the inside of your mouth and send the sample?

Hi Petros. I initially joined the Genoproject, it was 100$ at that time but had very basic info on results. I had to spend more through FTDNA (the work with National geographic) to have deeper tests as they were becoming available. Look at this link. I think the results now are more detailed. Its easy you receive two tubes with two small brushes in them and rub the inside of your mouth put back in tube and repost. Some other members here have been tested with other companies and they might have had better packages.

https://shop.nationalgeographic.com/...k&code=MR21432

[Hauteville]

Just thought I'd throw mine in:

Caucasus	37.67
Atlantic_Med	25.61
North_European	13.81
Southwest_Asian	10.26
Gedrosia	7.38
Northwest_African	3.67
East_African	1.13
Sub_Saharan	0.45

Single Population:

1	Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)	5.36
2	S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)	5.47
3	Sicilian (Dodecad)	5.56
4	Ashkenazi (Dodecad)	6.29
5	Greek (Dodecad)	7.95
6	Sephardic_Jews (Behar)	9.52
7	C_Italian (Dodecad)	10.89
8	Morocco_Jews (Behar)	12.75
9	O_Italian (Dodecad)	13.7
10	Tuscan (HGDP)	14.8

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Abhkasians + North_Italian + Portuguese + Samaritians @ 1.351221
2 Abhkasians + Castilla_Y_Leon + N_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.517337
3 Abhkasians + Extremadura + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.523689
4 Abhkasians + Canarias + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.583644
5 Abhkasians + Castilla_Y_Leon + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.618618
6 Armenian + Bulgarians + Canarias + Cypriots @ 1.631697
7 Abhkasians + Galicia + North_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.683491
8 Abhkasians + Murcia + N_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.713063
9 Abhkasians + Canarias + N_Italian + Samaritians @ 1.717037
10 Armenians + Morocco_Jews + O_Italian + O_Italian @ 1.732806

Mine

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasus	33.01
2	Atlantic_Med	27.89
3	North_European	14.71
4	Southwest_Asian	11.68
5	Gedrosia	7.67
6	Northwest_African	3.76

Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 5.577903
2 Sicilian @ 5.862129
3 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 7.644274
4 Ashkenazi @ 7.809694
5 Greek @ 8.685108
6 C_Italian @ 9.619845
7 Sephardic_Jews @ 11.009405
8 O_Italian @ 12.260293
9 Morocco_Jews @ 13.274865
10 Tuscan @ 13.881737
11 TSI30 @ 15.075401
12 Cypriots @ 20.576782
13 Turkish @ 20.887295
14 N_Italian @ 21.456177
15 Bulgarian @ 22.095325
16 Bulgarians @ 22.611324
17 North_Italian @ 22.926046
18 Turks @ 23.427137
19 Lebanese @ 23.575047
20 Romanians @ 23.723751

[Joey D]

^ identical top 10, slightly different order, my Jewishness appears to stand out a bit more

I had to look up what Abhkasians was.

[Joey D]

Here are (for the first time I think) the Dodecad 12b results for of a friend from Malta (all known ancestors from Malta). Not surprisingly, his results are quite similar to Sicilians but with a higher African component (North/West/East=8.0% vs 5.0%) quite similar to Portuguese (8.5%).

Component	Maltese	Sicilian_D
Caucasus	34.8	36.5

I know it's not much of a difference, maybe too small to worry about, but does anyone have a theory as to why the Sicilian Caucasus component is higher?

[Hauteville]

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I know it's not much of a difference, maybe too small to worry about, but does anyone have a theory as to why the Sicilian Caucasus component is higher?

Because Maltese have higher African admixture and less Atlanto Med+North Euro maybe?

PS: I have an idea, maybe less Caucasus means less ancient Greek settlements, while less North Euro and Atlanto Med less mainland Italian settlements, more African and SW Asian admix means a Phoenician contribution that in Sicily is limitated only to Palermo and Lilibeo?

[Angela]

Are my eyes deceiving me? Is this a thread on Sicilians? I thought it was a thread on the Maltese.

I'm not going to tell you again, Sikeliot. No spamming of Sicilian results. If you continue to try to derail threads into your obsession with and agenda against Sicilians and other Southern Italians you'll get an infraction. I don't allow any group to be harassed here, including the Albanians if I may say so, although they seem to have forgotten that.

Be grateful that members here aren't treated as I've heard you treat the members on your site, particularly the Greek ones lately, I understand, who are banned solely for not agreeing with you.

Oh, and if you're going to continually and perpetually appropriate my ideas, quote them accurately. The people of the area in and around Messina are descendants of people who were brought in to repopulate a city devastated by earthquake, so their results will not be at all informative as to whether or not the people of the northeast might have been, after the time of the Muslim invasions, the most "native" Sicilians.

[oreo_cookie]

Be grateful that members here aren't treated as I've heard you treat the members on your site, particularly the Greek ones lately, I understand, who are banned solely for not agreeing with you.

I'm not going to address most of your post but the above, is not true. Not one Greek member has been banned for anything to do with their ideas. One person was banned for harassing users, but it was nothing to do with me and if I remember correctly, I did not perform the ban myself.

For the rest of your post, ok. I will keep to posting those on other sites where people are more interested in them.

[Blanco]

I'm not going to address most of your post but the above, is not true. Not one Greek member has been banned for anything to do with their ideas. One person was banned for harassing users, but it was nothing to do with me and if I remember correctly, I did not perform the ban myself.

For the rest of your post, ok. I will keep to posting those on other sites where people are more interested in them.

I have to agree with user "Angela"
You banned Casandrinos and many others who disagreed with your non appropriate ideas on what Greeks are. In fact most Italians and Greeks left the TA because of your constant Tr*lling and obsessive circle threads. You should apologize from all members who spent so much time there in order to defeat false claims which has been made in a dark room with no hope and feelings.
Now as we know the genetic of Peloponnese and we see that they differ no dramatically from Italians including Sicilians the 75000+ posts which has been made on this subject should fade away.

[Hauteville]

Many people of modern Messina descendent from people from all over Sicily and Calabria, the mayor Accorinti has a Calabrese surname. And some north eastern Italians also settled there after Caporetto.

[Maleth]

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I know it's not much of a difference, maybe too small to worry about, but does anyone have a theory as to why the Sicilian Caucasus component is higher?

This is just a one (person) on one comparison. In fact other result posted by seanp says 40.78% Caucasus while mine is only 26.66. One needs to take results from a large group to cover whole populations to get an average, since results defer from one person to the other. Also percentages would vary from different regions within Sicily itself.

[oreo_cookie]

I have to agree with user "Angela"
You banned Casandrinos and many others who disagreed with your non appropriate ideas on what Greeks are. In fact most Italians and Greeks left the TA because of your constant Tr*lling and obsessive circle threads. You should apologize from all members who spent so much time there in order to defeat false claims which has been made in a dark room with no hope and feelings.
Now as we know the genetic of Peloponnese and we see that they differ no dramatically from Italians including Sicilians the 75000+ posts which has been made on this subject should fade away.

As for the genetics, yes, you're right about Peloponnesians and I was wrong in the past but I WILL defend myself from false claims being made about my mod behavior on TA:

Casandrinos was not banned for that reason, he was banned for spam posting, harassing users with homophobic comments and other personal attacks, and the decision was supported by the other Greek moderator, and by the forum administrator. It was not as if I made the decision for personal reasons, it was an accumulation of issues and there was not one mod/admin who disagreed. And no, most Greek users did not leave, they still post there.