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Thread: neanderthal admixture in Europe

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

    neanderthal admixture in Europe

    after analasis of the 45000 year old Usht-Ishim genome Neanderthal admixture was estimated 55-60000 years ago
    admixture was supposed to have happened outside of Europe

    now another 4-6 generations old Neanderthal admixture has been discovered in a 40.000 year old European human

    http://dienekes.blogspot.be/2015/05/...mily-tree.html

    awaiting details, but the article has yet not been published

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    after analasis of the 45000 year old Usht-Ishim genome Neanderthal admixture was estimated 55-60000 years ago
    admixture was supposed to have happened outside of Europe

    now another 4-6 generations old Neanderthal admixture has been discovered in a 40.000 year old European human

    http://dienekes.blogspot.be/2015/05/...mily-tree.html

    awaiting details, but the article has yet not been published

    correction, admixture was supposed to only have happened outside Europe. Now we know that admixture went on even after early humns reached Europe.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Wouldn't it be fascinating if the Neanderthal was in the direct male line and we got a novel yDna?

    Wasn't there some speculation, though, that the male offspring of such matings would have been sterile?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Wouldn't it be fascinating if the Neanderthal was in the direct male line and we got a novel yDna?

    Wasn't there some speculation, though, that the male offspring of such matings would have been sterile?
    the chance to find neanderthal Y-DNA or mtDNA alive today is very small I guess
    Neanderthals went extinct some 40.000 years ago and it seems that all Y- and mt-DNA going back that far is allready mapped

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    but it should be,

    how come modern Europeans have 3-6% Neantherdal DNA and that was not pass neither by father (Y-DNA) neither by mother (mtDNA)?
    so there must be a mark of Y or mt DNA in modern human
    When someone is showing/pointing the MOON
    many of us look the FINGER, the first time
    But some
    continue to see the finger AFTER second and third time,

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    Interesting Thread that give me the occasion to put in evidence an intriguing fact.

    Max Planck Institute sequenced the genome of Ust’-Ishim from Northern Siberia that dates to 45,000 years ago, This genome is available for comparing test at GEDmatch, I test mine and I shared some cM with him. That is not surprising as Ust’-Ishim was a modern human and not so very distantly related to people today.

    His genome actually shows also shared alleles with Neandertals but no greater ancestry than any Eurasian people living today ... Why? It look likes Neandertal admixture is little but constant
    through the millennia in all non-African.

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    that is logical
    once an admixture gets spread over a complete population, and there is no more dilution by admixture with other populations, the admixture remains constant
    what changes is the length of the admixed DNA strands, the DNA gets chopped into ever shorter pieces

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    but it should be,

    how come modern Europeans have 3-6% Neantherdal DNA and that was not pass neither by father (Y-DNA) neither by mother (mtDNA)?
    so there must be a mark of Y or mt DNA in modern human
    no, that is the difference between Y/mt or autosmal DNA
    autosmal DNA you get 50/50
    Y/mt DNA you get 100 %, and if their is no successor, then it stops, the line gets extinct

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    the chance to find neanderthal Y-DNA or mtDNA alive today is very small I guess
    Neanderthals went extinct some 40.000 years ago and it seems that all Y- and mt-DNA going back that far is allready mapped
    The last Neanderthals died in Spain, Gibraltar, about 24 kya. There must have been some human admixture in them too, because they were looking less robust by then.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    The last Neanderthals died in Spain, Gibraltar, about 24 kya. There must have been some human admixture in them too, because they were looking less robust by then.
    sorry, this is old school
    all Neanderthals younger than 40.000 year in Europe have been redated or reclassified as modern human
    if i recall well there was allways big doubt about those in Gibraltar being Neanderthal

    first modern humans arrived in Europe 48.000 years ago, so there is a 8000 year window when both were in Europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    sorry, this is old school
    all Neanderthals younger than 40.000 year in Europe have been redated or reclassified as modern human
    if i recall well there was allways big doubt about those in Gibraltar being Neanderthal

    first modern humans arrived in Europe 48.000 years ago, so there is a 8000 year window when both were in Europe
    I've never once heard about reclassification. Can you point me to the source of the news?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I think they are talking about one site in Iberia, not the Gibraltar or Croatian sites, where previous dating of Neanderthals took place. It is interesting though how double checking of dating will go.
    It might be the case that by 20-30 kya there were no true Neanderthals anymore but only some hybrids from mixing with humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    no, that is the difference between Y/mt or autosmal DNA
    autosmal DNA you get 50/50
    Y/mt DNA you get 100 %, and if their is no successor, then it stops, the line gets extinct
    I understand that,
    but not this,
    the Neanderdal autosomal enter modern Humans via multiply mix or gained ?
    cause if I produce my shelf i will pass 50/50 my genes and 100 Y-mt
    and if my product reproduce again, and again, the same
    so nature's choice picks the strong or the coreect 50/50 but in that isn't my 100 Y-mt?
    how the chain can be cut and exist my product of 50/50 without my 100

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I think they are talking about one site in Iberia, not the Gibraltar or Croatian sites, where previous dating of Neanderthals took place. It is interesting though how double checking of dating will go.
    It might be the case that by 20-30 kya there were no true Neanderthals anymore but only some hybrids from mixing with humans.
    I have not read in detail but this is what the paper says :

    Southern Iberia has been held to represent an exception to a wider European pattern21, with late survival of Neanderthals previously argued at sites such as Gorham’s Cave, Gibraltar22. We could not reproduce any of the late dates from sites in this region15 (Supplementary Methods) and it is apparent that many previous determinations underestimate the real age. It is unclear how long Neanderthals persisted in southern Iberia15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I understand that,
    but not this,
    the Neanderdal autosomal enter modern Humans via multiply mix or gained ?
    cause if I produce my shelf i will pass 50/50 my genes and 100 Y-mt
    and if my product reproduce again, and again, the same
    so nature's choice picks the strong or the coreect 50/50 but in that isn't my 100 Y-mt?
    how the chain can be cut and exist my product of 50/50 without my 100
    well keep in mind
    - Neanderthal DNA in humans is only 2 % , so much of it has been filtered out
    - most Y/mtDNA gets extinct, only few lines survive

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    A study conducted by the anthropologist John Hawks put in evidence that with 4% of Neandertal admixture in their DNA the Tuscans are one of the population with the higher quantity of Neandertal genes, Hawks thesis are included in the following video "PBS Nova | Decoding Neanderthals - Full Documentary"

    https://youtu.be/qqf0CdjUejA?t=42m30s

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    Quote Originally Posted by bighipert View Post
    A study conducted by the anthropologist John Hawks put in evidence that with 4% of Neandertal admixture in their DNA the Tuscans are one of the population with the higher quantity of Neandertal genes, Hawks thesis are included in the following video "PBS Nova | Decoding Neanderthals - Full Documentary"

    https://youtu.be/qqf0CdjUejA?t=42m30s
    Only a few European populations were tested in that particular analysis. to my recollection, none of the eastern European populations were sampled. Wasn't it just the 1000 Genomes groups? Does anyone know of a study that looks at a broader range of populations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    well keep in mind
    - Neanderthal DNA in humans is only 2 % , so much of it has been filtered out
    - most Y/mtDNA gets extinct, only few lines survive
    That´s funny, my dad was scored 5% on a National Geographic test. They couldn´t be wrong could they? ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    but it should be,

    how come modern Europeans have 3-6% Neantherdal DNA and that was not pass neither by father (Y-DNA) neither by mother (mtDNA)?
    so there must be a mark of Y or mt DNA in modern human
    Even Hallo group C-V20 and F is rare Thought to represent the aurignacian culture and their direct ancestors came face to face with the Neanderthals. Perhaps we will find a European man with Ydna A00 some day but so far that haplogroup was only found in only one man who is African American; no offense if any, we just need more DNA testing is all. There has got to be more living ydna A00 men in this world than just one person.

    According to 23andme, I'm 2.9% Neanderthal


    Sources: http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot...-is-older.html



    • Mendez et al. (2013), p. 455. Quote: "Upon searching a large pan-African database consisting of 5,648 samples from ten countries [...] we identified 11 Y chromosomes that were invariant and identical to the A00 chromosome at five of the six Y-STRs (2 of the 11 chromosomes carried DYS19-16, whereas the others carried DYS19-15). These 11 chromosomes were all found in a sample of 174 (~6.3%) Mbo individuals from western Cameroon (Figure 2). Seven of these Mbo chromosomes were available for further testing, and the genotypes were found to be identical at 37 of 39 SNPs known to be derived on the A00 chromosome (i.e., two of these genotyped SNPs were ancestral in the Mbo samples)".


    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#C


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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    but it should be,

    how come modern Europeans have 3-6% Neantherdal DNA and that was not pass neither by father (Y-DNA) neither by mother (mtDNA)?
    so there must be a mark of Y or mt DNA in modern human
    I am going to repeat what I said elsewhere, with the note that its speculation:

    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    There is absolutely no Neanderthal mtdna nor Y-DNA among living people. However, Dienekes had an article which hinted on male hybrid infertility. That allows for the scenario that AMH women were raped and left at their tribe, giving birth to girls and boys of which only the girls reproduce, girls which would carry 50% neanderthal autosomical DNA and exclusively AMH mtDNA.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2014/01/...rn-humans.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes blog
    An unexpected finding is that regions with reduced Neanderthal ancestry are enriched in genes, implying selection to remove genetic material derived from Neanderthals. Genes that are more highly expressed in testes than in any other tissue are especially reduced in Neanderthal ancestry, and there is an approximately fivefold reduction of Neanderthal ancestry on the X chromosome, which is known from studies of diverse species to be especially dense in male hybrid sterility genes10, 11, 12. These results suggest that part of the explanation for genomic regions of reduced Neanderthal ancestry is Neanderthal alleles that caused decreased fertility in males when moved to a modern human genetic background.

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