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Thread: Is genetic Arab exist in North Africa ?

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    الْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْ Harith's Avatar
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    Question Is genetic Arab exist in North Africa ?

    Hello

    The Arab population of North Africa comes from the Banu Hilal who lived east of Mecca and Banu Sulaym who lived south of Yathrib and settled Ifriqiyya and were installed by Moroccan dynasty in plains of Gharb, Tendrara and Haouz.

    How did they do that haplogroup E1b1b either remain majority ? Is genetic Arab (J1) exist in North Africa ? If so, in what areas ?

    Thank you

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    Original Arabs are from Yemen. Yemen is neighbouring the African continent. Countries like Eritrea, Somalia etc. are neighbouring countries of Arabs.

    Original Arabs were Afro-Asiatic people and are a mixture of hg. E and hg. J1. So, original Arabs were partly African and partly Southwest Asian. Folks from Eritrea, Somalia etc. are basically cousins of Arabs.

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    Welcome to Eupedia Harith. It'll be interesting to figure it out. Future genetic research will answer it well. I'm guessing that they are fusion of Levantines from Near East and some tribes from Arabian Peninsula plus folks from East Africa.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harith View Post
    Hello

    The Arab population of North Africa comes from the Banu Hilal who lived east of Mecca and Banu Sulaym who lived south of Yathrib and settled Ifriqiyya and were installed by Moroccan dynasty in plains of Gharb, Tendrara and Haouz.

    How did they do that haplogroup E1b1b either remain majority ? Is genetic Arab (J1) exist in North Africa ? If so, in what areas ?

    Thank you
    Hello Harith. Palmyra been very much in the news lately, hope you are keeping well. North Africa dominant haplogroups are the berber E-M81 (E1b1b is a very generic term) and the dominant 'Arab' J1. You might find this info helpful. I presume there is no real scientifically based record of how J1 Emigrated into North Africa but it seems that E-M81 is strongly present withing the Berbers communities that are not usually found in any great numbers outside of North Africa while J1 is very common in the Near East.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...f_North_Africa

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    This recent study of Sousse with 220 samples has founded 23% of J1



    Look at the J1b2b1 which is the typical Arab marker afaik.
    Sicilians and mainlander Southern Italian phenotype galleries.

    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/1111/Re-Groups-of-Sicilians
    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/375/Southern-italians-how-we-really-look

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Most of the J1 in North Africa is tied to YSC234's Arabian branches, in fact E-M84 in North Africa could also have something to do with the Arab expansion.

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    J1 in some parts of north African (north of Tunisia for example) was also be brought by the Phoenicians who colonized that part (especially Carthage).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    Most of the J1 in North Africa is tied to YSC234's Arabian branches, in fact E-M84 in North Africa could also have something to do with the Arab expansion.
    Do we know the frequencies of E-M84 in North Africa? They seem to be very minimal, but then we do not have much records on how common it is the Middle east. It is a middle eastern marker and seems like a natural companion to J1. I am inclined to believe that J1 has entered in North Africa prior to the more recent 'Arab' expansions, however if there were any J1 mass migrations in more recent events they should somehow be recorded. The percentages (J1) seem to be too great to be only a result of more recent events (migrations from Arabia proper). Just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    J1 in some parts of north African (north of Tunisia for example) was also be brought by the Phoenicians who colonized that part (especially Carthage).
    Very minimal amounts I would believe. J2 seems to be a more common Phoenician Marker. Of course J1 will not be excluded but it would be very minimal for any significant reason for more J1 admixture in North Africa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Very minimal amounts I would believe. J2 seems to be a more common Phoenician Marker. Of course J1 will not be excluded but it would be very minimal for any significant reason for more J1 admixture in North Africa.
    Probably it's true but i believe around ancient Carthage some Punic dna is survived.
    Though M81 and J1 are much more common than J2 in north Africa for many reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    Probably it's true but i believe around ancient Carthage some Punic dna is survived.
    Though M81 and J1 are much more common than J2 in north Africa for many reasons.
    Some more Aboriginal Berber tribes and communities already seem to have some significant J1 in their mix. In more homogeneous with their e-m81 percentages. The J1 mix in old established Berber tribes is a good indication that J1 in North Africa is older then any recent 'Arab' expansion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Do we know the frequencies of E-M84 in North Africa? They seem to be very minimal, but then we do not have much records on how common it is the Middle east. It is a middle eastern marker and seems like a natural companion to J1. I am inclined to believe that J1 has entered in North Africa prior to the more recent 'Arab' expansions, however if there were any J1 mass migrations in more recent events they should somehow be recorded. The percentages (J1) seem to be too great to be only a result of more recent events (migrations from Arabia proper). Just my opinion.
    The overwhelming majority of J1 in North Africa belongs to relatively young arabian branches of YSC234 such as BY86, L222, FGC1721, FGC2, FGC9 and so on... In other words, the bulk of J1 in North Africa came with the Arabs. Now of course there are a few exceptions here and there, a few singleton samples from Tunisia are Z2324* and L858* for instance, so we obviously can't rule out the presence of J1 prior to the Arabian expansion (Z2324 in particular since it was found in a sample from the Canary islands), nevertheless J1's presence in North Africa seems to be tied to the arrival of the Arabs for the most part.
    As you said, E-M84 isn't all that common in North Africa, and since its distribution closely follows J1's I expect it to be tied to the arrival of Arabian tribes as well (I wouldn't be surprised if it peaked in specific tribes which still follow a semi-nomadic lifestyle).

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    Hi ! I am an Algerian and I can tell you that Familytreedna estimated the pourentge of Arabs bearinghe J1 haplogrup to between 35 and 45% . I am a J-M267 and one of the Jboor tribe . J2 is less present .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Original Arabs are from Yemen. Yemen is neighbouring the African continent. Countries like Eritrea, Somalia etc. are neighbouring countries of Arabs.

    Original Arabs were Afro-Asiatic people and are a mixture of hg. E and hg. J1. So, original Arabs were partly African and partly Southwest Asian. Folks from Eritrea, Somalia etc. are basically cousins of Arabs.
    Afro-Asiatic is a language with hypothetical origin and no hard evidences of its existence .. merely an observation of similarities between sahel and Arabic and other languages

    as for North Africans , those whom are of Arabian (tribal Arab) descent are under J1-M267 > J-P58 , such as Awlad Na'il who live in Algerian desert and reached 77% J1, just like their cousins in Arabia !
    https://tribusalgeriennes.files.word...07/capture.png
    Last edited by ZTD; 16-06-19 at 08:50.

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    in my country they are 30 percent of population especially in center of algeria

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    Quote Originally Posted by maria ait kaci View Post
    in my country they are 30 percent of population especially in center of algeria
    is this 30% in the Taureg area ?
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-Y33791
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

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    ""Afro-asiatic" is a language family not people and original arab weren't partly
    African the African admixture in the arab today (around 5%-10%) happened due to the arab slave trade after Islam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Original Arabs are from Yemen. Yemen is neighbouring the African continent. Countries like Eritrea, Somalia etc. are neighbouring countries of Arabs.

    Original Arabs were Afro-Asiatic people and are a mixture of hg. E and hg. J1. So, original Arabs were partly African and partly Southwest Asian. Folks from Eritrea, Somalia etc. are basically cousins of Arabs.

    ""Afro-asiatic" is a language family not people and original arab weren't partly
    African the African admixture in the arab today (around 5%-10%) happened due to the arab slave trade after Islam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    Most of the J1 in North Africa is tied to YSC234's Arabian branches, in fact E-M84 in North Africa could also have something to do with the Arab expansion
    Agree
    Algerian e-m84 mainly fall on e-fgc18401 branch and inside of this branch
    (Which is also present in south europe and even as far as poland)
    They show relation to sub -branch of it from saudi arabia
    Sefhardi, aschenazi, bulgarian
    die Überlebenden
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y62418/
    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/
    k12b ancient
    Closest:
    3.30708331
    R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietrophenotype: east med with pontic vibe

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    no , it's kinda the opposite , the center of algeria includes djelfa , biskra , msila , boussada which has the biggest arab population about 60 percent are arabs while the north like oran , annaba , constantine is mixed between berbers , arabs and turks and the south includes tuaregs who got mixed with black people and the others who kept their genetics and kabylie and aures are berbers

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    In any case, the Arab population is the majority. There are more people of Arab origin in the south but they are mixed with the natives. For the Turkish population, it is a minority the majority of Algerians do not descend from the Ottoman janissaries. Assigning supposed ethnic origins randomly according to cities or regions is irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sosoo View Post
    In any case, the Arab population is the majority. There are more people of Arab origin in the south but they are mixed with the natives. For the Turkish population, it is a minority the majority of Algerians do not descend from the Ottoman janissaries. Assigning supposed ethnic origins randomly according to cities or regions is irrelevant.
    Speaking Arab does not make a person have Arab Ethnicity ..........................many people in the world speak English, this does not make them have English ethnicity.

    language is a very small part of ethnicity

    Turkic ethnicity is huge but not everyone speaks Turkish .

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Speaking Arab does not make a person have Arab Ethnicity ..........................many people in the world speak English, this does not make them have English ethnicity.

    language is a very small part of ethnicity

    Turkic ethnicity is huge but not everyone speaks Turkish .
    Language and ethnicity used to be tied together because big public schools didnt exist nor mass amount of books - its a modern thing. The english were obviously a mix of anglo saxons and roman britains - it was quite late only a few hundred years ago when they managed to convert irish people into speaking english through public schools - this is why irish speak english but dont have too much anglo saxon y dna

    Thats just one example - i would say those that spoke arabic early on were definitely mixed heavily with arabs but those that speak it just recently is due to schools/books

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