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Thread: DNA of Iberians from Europe

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drac II View Post
    I would guess that the majority of Euro DNA among black Americans iwould be British, as that is the European group that they have been in contact with for the longest time.


    The impression is that Irish were more involved in mixing with blacks. Half of Black last names have an Irish origin. The mix was voluntary since the Irish were pushed by Brits to live either in black neighborhoods or next to them.I would say that English were an egalitarian ethnicity in America so the English black mixtures were forced, compared to Irish Black
    I would think that the majority of the European DNA among modern black Americans was due to the custom that many slave owners had of "fooling around" with their female slaves (a famous example: Sally Hemings.) Since in the United States most of the slave owners were of British descent, I would guess that that's the most common source of European admixture among black Americans.

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    Perhaps I am really blind... Plus as you can see there os not even a general Berber look. Moroccan Berbers have diffenret features than those from Tunisia etc.

    http://looklex.com/e.o/berbers.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, there are a lot of Jewish people involved in the entertainment industry. That's completely different from saying there's some sort of Jewish conspiracy to make Spaniards or Italians look "dark". That's idiotic anti-Semitic racism and doesn't have any place on a genetics and history and archaeology forum. Do you want to post the Protocols of Zion next?Free speech is a right guaranteed in the U.S. by the First Amendment that protects people from government intrusion or control over speech. It has nothing to do with the rules that might apply on a private website. You're of course entitled to your opinion of anyone's acting skills; you're not entitled to distort the facts to imply that Penelope Cruz is a creature of Hollywood when in fact she had a prominent and valued place in Spanish film long before Hollywood ever heard of her.
    I dunno if it's racism or not (but in America everything is "racism" even claiming the most obvious things), but real Italian actors (including Southerners you dislike so much) in Italy look normal European, while "Italians" in Jewish mass medias (yes Jews controll 90% of American medias, even kids know that) look totally alien to an Italian. I was watching this Italian film with Turturro and he sticked out like a sore thumb among the Italians, both actos and random people in the streets. On the other hand in Italy we often see German and French films and Italians in them are represented quite well. I guess that since we get tens of millions of European tourists every year from Germany, Sweden,... it's harder to make them believe that we Italians look like some kind of MENA mixed with hispanics...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    "Italians" in Jewish mass medias (yes Jews controll 90% of American medias, even kids know that) look totally alien to an Italian.
    I think Italians in American medias are not Europe-born, but Italian-Americans.

    Maybe simply Italian-Americans look different than Italians in Europe ???


    We assume that emigrants were 100% representative of their source populations.

    But in fact emigrants could be statistically a bit different from source populations.

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    Not to mention that Italian-Americans who live in the USA for several generations, are no longer "pure Italians".

    They are all mixed with Non-Italians. Maybe Italians in the USA had a tendency to mix with MENAs and Hispanics?

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    Jews controll 90% of American medias
    Source ??? Why not for example 30% or 40% ??? It would be a more realistic figure.

    As Angela wrote, you are probably one of these guys who would like to have a credit card like this!:

    http://www.jewishpress.com/news/brea...ay/2015/09/02/

    http://southendpatriot.blogspot.com/...i-semitic.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, there are a lot of Jewish people involved in the entertainment industry. That's completely different from saying there's some sort of Jewish conspiracy to make Spaniards or Italians look "dark". That's idiotic anti-Semitic racism and doesn't have any place on a genetics and history and archaeology forum. Do you want to post the Protocols of Zion next?

    Free speech is a right guaranteed in the U.S. by the First Amendment that protects people from government intrusion or control over speech. It has nothing to do with the rules that might apply on a private website.

    You're of course entitled to your opinion of anyone's acting skills; you're not entitled to distort the facts to imply that Penelope Cruz is a creature of Hollywood when in fact she had a prominent and valued place in Spanish film long before Hollywood ever heard of her.
    What is idiotic is you finding "conspiracies" every time someone mentions Jews or Aryans. You must have some complex or you have been brainwashed by political-correctness. For example, if I had said Italians or Germans or Eskimos run Hollywood you would have not run around like a chicken babbling about "anti-Semitism" or "Nordicists." You are naive: There is no conspiracy about Jewish producers making Spaniards or Italians look "dark." It's just how Hollywood made them in the beginning, for example, Rudolph Valentino. It sells movies. If you think Jewesh producers are trying to make Spaniards look like Moors then you are an idiot. What's is wrong with you is you make up things that don't exist and then you force them on this forum. If you think some statements are "anti-Semitic" then keep them to yourself and don't contaminate the forum with your prejudices or paranoid fantasies. All you do is make people more stupid with your emotionalism. Anyone who thinks when someone mentions "Jews run Hollywood" is anti-Semitic has some loose nuts in their brain or is hopelessly naive or worse.

    The first amendment of free speech is supposed to protect us from the likes of you. This is what it says: "First Amendment - Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." You have a tyrannical personality and this forum should be allowed to have free speech for all. You are acting like the government mentioned above! You act like some Bolshevik committee. It does not matter if there are Jewish racist or white racist or black racist or people from Mars who are racist. Everyone should be allowed to make their opinions in every forum. Do you own this forum? are you a goddess that knows everything?

    I grew up in LA and have met and know Jews and everything under the sun. I even have Jewish friends. I have even debated with racists and they turned out to be more enlightened than you. Everyone should be allowed to express their own opinions no matter what they are. If not then you lower the standards and the culture. Look at what happened to Soviet Union where everyone was told what to think? Look at what happened in Muslim countries? They are or were all poor and backward. That is what you are trying to preach sister. Actually I think that this forum should only allow people with at least a BA degree and no prejudiced or people with agendas in the forum. Other wise there is no point.

    About Penelope Cruz: I never slandered anything. You make things up in your head. She is a great beauty but not a great actress. It's my opinion. You are entitled to yours. Stop slandering me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes
    For example, if I had said Italians or Germans or Eskimos run Hollywood
    Well I'm quite sure that there are many e.g. self-declared German-Americans in Hollywood.

    So claiming that Hollywood has been totally monopolized by Jews is, quite simply, not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes
    There is no conspiracy about Jewish producers making Spaniards or Italians look "dark."
    If I want a "light" actor for my movie, I go take a Northern European. If I want a dark one, I look south instead.

    Of course that there are a lot of "light" Spaniards or Italians as well, but there is simply no demand for them. There is demand for more exotic "dark" actors because there is shortage of them in a society of predominantly Northern origins such as the American society.

    That's how I see this at least. There is no any political agenda in
    volved, just the law of demand and supply.

    And why should I be looking for "light" actors among Spaniards, if I can very easily find an even lighter Swede ???

    You sound like someone being offended that there are not enough Pygmy players in the NBA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes
    I grew up in LA and have met and know Jews and everything under the sun. I even have Jewish friends.
    Do you happen to know what ancestries do they declare in censuses? I'm curious about this because I can't see "Jewish ancestry" category. There was "religious response" category in U.S. 2000 census, which surely included some Jews, but it was not numerous enough to have them all.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfrido View Post
    I dunno if it's racism or not (but in America everything is "racism" even claiming the most obvious things), but real Italian actors (including Southerners you dislike so much) in Italy look normal European, while "Italians" in Jewish mass medias (yes Jews controll 90% of American medias, even kids know that) look totally alien to an Italian. I was watching this Italian film with Turturro and he sticked out like a sore thumb among the Italians, both actos and random people in the streets. On the other hand in Italy we often see German and French films and Italians in them are represented quite well. I guess that since we get tens of millions of European tourists every year from Germany, Sweden,... it's harder to make them believe that we Italians look like some kind of MENA mixed with hispanics...
    Yes, I dislike southern Italians so much that I fell in love with one, married him, and had children with him. I know and appreciate his ancestry more than he does, to the extent that I have researched his family tree, found his ancestral villages and brought him and his family to them and to a reunion with their distant relatives in Campania and Calabria. I love his family as my own. You are the one who seems to not love his own people, if you are indeed a southern Italian, Siegfried.

    The vast majority of the Italians who immigrated to the U.S. came from southern Italy. Americans have formed their perception of what Italians look like from therm. There's nothing conspiratorial about it.

    There are a variety of looks among these Italian-Americans; John Turturro's, who's a great actor and seems like a great guy, is just one of them. None of them look Swedish. If you don't like what they look like, that's you're problem, not theirs, not that of Americans, and not mine.

    Some representative SouthernItalian-Americans, none of them admixed with anything:

    Two of the nine Supreme Court Justices are Italian/American:

    Scalia:


    Allito:


    There are many, many great Italian American jurists, but this is a particularly famous one, John Sirica, who presided at the Watergate Hearings:




    Some Southern Italian-American political figures:

    John Pastore, Senator and Governor of Rhode Island:


    John Volpe, Governor of Massachusetts


    Mario Cuomo, Governor of New York, darling of the Democrat Party:



    Andrew Cuomo, his son, also Governor of New York:


    Was there a conspiracy to elect them based on some desire to denigrate southern Italians? This kind of world view is not only ridiculous, it displays a self-hatred on a par with that exhibited by some of our Spanish posters.

    I just hope that other posters and readers realize that these views are not representative of the views of these peoples as a whole.

    As for the representation of Italian Americans in American films, most of them, from The Godfather, to Goodfellas, to The Sopranos, were made by Italian Americans. Francis Coppola, Martin Scorsese, and David Chase cast people who looked like the people among whom they grew up. Martin Scorsese was born and grew up in Little Italy, New York. He portrays in his movies the world with which he was familiar. When he wanted to cast his movie Goodfellas, Scorsese went to Rao's, a wonderful restaurant in New York where a lot of "mobbed up" guys like to hang to find people for the smaller parts.

    Now, if you want to say that perhaps the areas from which these people immigrated, or the class from which they were drawn were not totally representative, in terms of phenotype, of all of southern Italy, then that is a possibility. However, foreign, or admixed with Hispanics or black Americans they're not; that's an absolute falsehood, although such people of course exist.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    In 2008 I was in Tunisia and I could see Berbers, including these living in Chenini:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenini

    But I don't remember seeing a clone of Penelope Cruz, so I can't say who is right.
    Jesus Christ Tomenable! Did I say Penelope Cruz looks exactly like a Berber? I said she is mixed: actually she looks more like a Jew. Now find pictures that look like her.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
    What is idiotic is you finding "conspiracies" every time someone mentions Jews or Aryans. You must have some complex or you have been brainwashed by political-correctness. For example, if I had said Italians or Germans or Eskimos run Hollywood you would have not run around like a chicken babbling about "anti-Semitism" or "Nordicists." You are naive: There is no conspiracy about Jewish producers making Spaniards or Italians look "dark." It's just how Hollywood made them in the beginning, for example, Rudolph Valentino. It sells movies. If you think Jewesh producers are trying to make Spaniards look like Moors then you are an idiot. What's is wrong with you is you make up things that don't exist and then you force them on this forum. If you think some statements are "anti-Semitic" then keep them to yourself and don't contaminate the forum with your prejudices or paranoid fantasies. All you do is make people more stupid with your emotionalism. Anyone who thinks when someone mentions "Jews run Hollywood" is anti-Semitic has some loose nuts in their brain or is hopelessly naive or worse.

    The first amendment of free speech is supposed to protect us from the likes of you. This is what it says: "First Amendment - Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." You have a tyrannical personality and this forum should be allowed to have free speech for all. You are acting like the government mentioned above! You act like some Bolshevik committee. It does not matter if there are Jewish racist or white racist or black racist or people from Mars who are racist. Everyone should be allowed to make their opinions in every forum. Do you own this forum? are you a goddess that knows everything?

    I grew up in LA and have met and know Jews and everything under the sun. I even have Jewish friends. I have even debated with racists and they turned out to be more enlightened than you. Everyone should be allowed to express their own opinions no matter what they are. If not then you lower the standards and the culture. Look at what happened to Soviet Union where everyone was told what to think? Look at what happened in Muslim countries? They are or were all poor and backward. That is what you are trying to preach sister. Actually I think that this forum should only allow people with at least a BA degree and no prejudiced or people with agendas in the forum. Other wise there is no point.

    About Penelope Cruz: I never slandered anything. You make things up in your head. She is a great beauty but not a great actress. It's my opinion. You are entitled to yours. Stop slandering me.
    You talkin' to me?

    You asked for it, you got it.

    @Sigfrido,
    Your IP address had better not be that of a previously banned member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You talkin' to me?

    You asked for it, you got it.

    @Sigfrido,
    Your IP address had better not be that of a previously banned member.
    Ha! so you see the truth but you dont like it! I have seen you insult many members and even patronize about how much you know about everything. But you don't get an "infraction." What do I care about your stupid infractions. You can peddle your fantasies or your prejudices wherever you want but people are not as stupid as you think. What you need is an open mind and less emotionalism.

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    Good cherrypick Angela. Do you realize that I could post at least 90 famous Italian Americans who could pass for Anglos? Also not everyone with an Italian surname is fully Italian, so I don't get your point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    So claiming that Hollywood has been totally monopolized by Jews is, quite simply, not true.
    Ok why dont you prove it? Go and google or find out some other website. Once you do then come back and tell me its not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfrido View Post
    good cherrypick angela. Do you realize that i could post at least 90 famous italian americans who could pass for anglos? Also not everyone with an italian surname is fully italian, so i don't get your point.

    lol lol lol lol

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    Why LoL? You know it is true.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable
    So claiming that Hollywood has been totally monopolized by Jews is, quite simply, not true.
    Ok why dont you prove it? Go and google or find out some other website.
    Well, at least Bollywood is still controlled by Aryans...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfrido View Post
    Good cherrypick Angela. Do you realize that I could post at least 90 famous Italian Americans who could pass for Anglos? Also not everyone with an Italian surname is fully Italian, so I don't get your point.
    CHERRY PICK?

    There are two (out of nine, btw, a fact of which I'm very proud) Italian American justices of the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land and arguably more powerful than either the President or the Congress. Those are their pictures. They are FULLY Southern/Italian-American.

    I chose the most prominent Southern/Italian-American politicians in America because they are elected and so there could be no question of them being chosen because of some bizarre agenda. Mario Cuomo, for example, one of the most brilliant men it's ever been my privilege to hear speak, and to meet, had an immense following among Democrats in this country and was often urged to run for Presdient.

    He and the other governors I posted are FULLY Southern Italian in origin.

    You want some more? Go here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_Americans

    You can find a full list of Italian American governors there. I posted the ones who are FULLY Southern Italian and Sicilian in ancestry. Find for me among them the 100% southern Italian American ones who look like Anglos.

    Some of them, like Governor Pataki, are 1/4 southern Italian and the rest eastern European. He is running for President, by the way:


    Some are half Sicilian-half Irish, like Governor Chris Christie, who is also running for President:


    Or half southern Italian/half German American like the Governor of Arizona, Janet Napolitano:


    I didn't post them because they are MIXED.

    You want to go to mayors, business leaders, church leaders? Go ahead, knock yourself out. Like it or lump it, this is what most of them look like.* As I said, maybe it has to do with the particular area or class from which the immigrants were drawn, but it certainly has nothing to do with cherry picking or with these people being admixed with Hispanics. Nor does it mean that they aren't fully of European descent, the **** posted on anthrofora notwithstanding.

    Oh, and by the way, the largest admixture of Italian Americans with other Americans is with the Irish and Irish/Germans. There are so many of this type of mix that they could populate a small country of their own.

    Another example of one of them, although I detest him...Bill DeBlasio, mayor of the city of New York:


    One of the best mayors New York ever had by way of contrast...Rudy Giuliani...fully Italian:


    Oh, wait, I get it...intelligence, efficiency, political skill, and popularity correlate with "darker" phenotypes in southern Italians. That must explain it. The lighter ones, the majority, just don't cut it.

    * Of course, it has to be said that politicians are not generally known for their good looks.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Well, at least Bollywood is still controlled by Aryans...
    Oh man, that was a good one. You have a great sense of humor. :)

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    Thank you! :)

    Edit:

    This is for another thread (removed).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post


    Or there could be self-selection of intelligent immigrants from South Italy to America - i.e. so-called "brain drain".

    For example according to Jason Richwine's calculations of IQ scores from the 2003 New Immigrant Survey's "mini IQ test", the group of immigrants to the USA who score the highest average IQ are immigrants from India - 112 IQ on average (compared to 104-106 among East Asian immigrants and 99 among European immigrants). Yet studies on average IQ in India itself, indicate that it is around 85 for the whole population.

    However, there seem to be huge differences in IQ scores between various castes and tribes.

    I've seen claims that Brahmins have average IQ of 110 -
    120, while Dalits (scheduled castes / untouchables) only 65 - 70.

    But it seems that these are only estimates, not data from legitimate studies (if such exist):

    http://halfsigma.typepad.com/half_si...indian-iq.html

    http://pumpkinperson.com/2014/09/29/caste-iq-in-india/
    I don't think they are analogous situations, Tomenable. The only Indians who are immigrating to the U.S. in this time period are the educated, middle class ones. That's not true of all the current immigrants.

    The southern Italian/Sicilian immigrants to America who came during the last part of the 19th century and first part of the twentieth century were the poorest of the poor, landless people for the most part, or barely surviving peasants, almost all of whom were illiterate. I would agree, however, that it's a tribute to their innate gifts that their grandchildren have come so far in their adopted country.

    It wasn't a brain drain. There is a brain drain going on now of educated Italians to other countries, but it didn't exist at the time in question.

    I was being sarcastic in that statement. The only way you could believe that these people are not representative of the broader Italian/American community is to believe that somehow, as I said, "darker" phenotypes correlate with intelligence and political skill.

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    Those mixed people you have posted look like regular White Americans. LOL. I can't still post photos for now. I still need to make 10 posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela
    I don't think they are analogous situations, Tomenable.
    Yes, I actually decided to delete that. I should have posted that in your thread about strong founder events in Indian castes:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ations-Finland

    There are some castes with high IQ, but average for entire population of India is low. Maybe part of this is due to inbreeding.

    Probably if they all stopped inbreeding just within their own castes and mixed, average IQ for entire India would increase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfrido View Post
    Those mixed people you have posted look like regular White Americans. LOL. I can't still post photos for now. I still need to make 10 posts.
    OMG! They're MIXED; HALF Irish/German! How can they be held to be representative of 100% Southern Italian or Sicilian Americans?

    Plus, where do you get off saying that Justice Alito or Rudy Giuliani don't look like white Americans? Do you think Americans believe they're not white Americans? You would be well advised not to think that the opinions expressed by posters on anthrofora are representative of anyone but the fringe.

    Plus, I have news for you. Neither Janet Napolitano nor Chris Christie look Irish, or German, or English American.

    You reminded me; I have to check your IP address.

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