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Thread: Ancient Bulgarian MtDna

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    Ancient Bulgarian MtDna

    This work on ancient Bulgarian samples adds to the genetic picture of the past by presenting the first data on ancient mtDNA samples.Our results show that the haplogroups found in ancient samples are predominantly Western Eurasians. This finding supports the concept for the Western Eurasian matrilineal origins of the Proto-Bulgarians and is controversial to the Mongolo-Altaic and Hun-Tataric theories.

    http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/...biol_preprints
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    I think they're talking about the Bulgars, about whose ancestry there has been some controversy, with some claiming they originally came from Central Asia and were Turkic speaking and some claiming they were a totally West Eurasian, western steppe group.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgars

    All this testing reveals is that the Bulgars settled in Bulgaria were maternally West Eurasian (Neolithic and Steppe mtDna). We don't yet know their y markers or their autosomal signature. An analysis of those markers might show more "foreign" input.

    This might be a predominantly male mediated migration and the women were authochthonous, or they might have picked up some of these uniparental markers during their long sojourns on the steppe.

    So, I don't think they've proved that there was no "Turkic" input into the Bulgarian gene pool if that was their aim, although I think that more and more examples are showing up that this mantra that all migrations bring huge changes to the autosomal make up of the invaded country is just as inaccurate as the old pots are just pots, they're not people mantra of prior decades.


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I agree no migration had dramatically changed all over genetic composition of a country but I think diverse migrations had different imputs according to number of migrants, population density in the reached lands, and presence or no presence of females with them: the most of what we have seen until then is the migrations seem very often having envolved more males than females (but it's true the males social dominance can have confused us sometimes concerning male first cohorts of migrants) - the Neolithic rather progressive migrations had nevertheless a strong impact autosomally, more as a whole than the fierce warriors ones -

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    one theory is that first Bulgars (in Steppes) were previous I-Ean Iranians turkicized - some slight 'mongoloid' traits can be observed among the today Balkans, at very very low level, so we cannot completely discard an altaic imput but it could be caused also by other steppic people and not by force by the only Bulgars -

    &: french 'bougre' is the genuine word for 'bulgare': a pejorative word, as 'vandale'! these migrating people have not been welcomed at first contact!!!

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I agree no migration had dramatically changed all over genetic composition of a country but I think diverse migrations had different imputs according to number of migrants, population density in the reached lands, and presence or no presence of females with them: the most of what we have seen until then is the migrations seem very often having envolved more males than females (but it's true the males social dominance can have confused us sometimes concerning male first cohorts of migrants) - the Neolithic rather progressive migrations had nevertheless a strong impact autosomally, more as a whole than the fierce warriors ones -
    I think that's right; each situation has to be analyzed on its own merits.

    As to non-West Eurasian dna in Bulgarians, there does seem to be a bit, but even a bit more in the Romanians. This is from Kovacevek et al: Standing at the Gateway to Europe

    Balkan autosomal variation.jpg

    Ed. To correct spelling of author's name
    Last edited by Angela; 06-06-15 at 00:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    one theory is that first Bulgars (in Steppes) were previous I-Ean Iranians turkicized - some slight 'mongoloid' traits can be observed among the today Balkans, at very very low level, so we cannot completely discard an altaic imput but it could be caused also by other steppic people and not by force by the only Bulgars -

    &: french 'bougre' is the genuine word for 'bulgare': a pejorative word, as 'vandale'! these migrating people have not been welcomed at first contact!!!
    The origin of the word "bougre" and the english "bugger" are connected not with invading Bulgars but with Bulgarian heretics called Bogomili (similar to the Cathari) who were spreading their heresy in the Middle Ages in Western Europe.

    Speaking on the topic, I can't understand why they tested only mitochondrial DNA. These steppe ruling elites are male dominated after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerius View Post
    The origin of the word "bougre" and the english "bugger" are connected not with invading Bulgars but with Bulgarian heretics called Bogomili (similar to the Cathari) who were spreading their heresy in the Middle Ages in Western Europe.

    Speaking on the topic, I can't understand why they tested only mitochondrial DNA. These steppe ruling elites are male dominated after all.
    MtDNA is the easiest to sequence. The rest is usually deteriorated making it more difficult and more expensive to sequence.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerius View Post
    The origin of the word "bougre" and the english "bugger" are connected not with invading Bulgars but with Bulgarian heretics called Bogomili (similar to the Cathari) who were spreading their heresy in the Middle Ages in Western Europe.

    Speaking on the topic, I can't understand why they tested only mitochondrial DNA. These steppe ruling elites are male dominated after all.
    Thanks, you are right concerning the use of the world 'bougre' or 'bugger': etymologically I was right too but not concerning the historical explanation: I had not this explanation at hand but in my etymology book i red: BOUGRE, year 1172, "hérétique" "sodomite" (!) so confirming your version-
    I think as you too much mtDNA to less aDNA and Y-DNA - I suppose ancient mt-DNA is easier to recover than Y-DNA, well conserved? because this occrus very often, helas!

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    Are the West Asian component the one in yellow?
    If yes, it remains ver light in Bulgary
    but Is the West Asian component which is in question, or the East asian one?
    thanks all the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Are the West Asian component the one in yellow?
    If yes, it remains ver light in Bulgary
    but Is the West Asian component which is in question, or the East asian one?
    thanks all the way
    I apologize for not providing the link to the paper. It's Kovacevic et al, 2014: Standing at the Gateway to Europe: The Genetic Structure of Balkan Populations:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0105090

    The bright yellow along the top is the East Asian "Han" type component in this paper.

    The golden yellow along the bottom is the "Middle Eastern" component.

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    Thanks ANgela: in fact I had seen this work -
    the question is different people don't use the same components basis for their surveys -
    of topic but of general interest: in these aDNA anlysis, whatever the criteria to classify into components we can see the heterogeneity of some countries, either regionally, or at the individual level (as the Saudi by example): we lack regional aDNA samples, for i think, to separate regional from individual, because in a stable region, if we take only people having an ancient enough background locally (say four generations), we would find a great HOMOgeneity at autsomallevels - it is not always the case here -
    good supper!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    MtDNA is the easiest to sequence. The rest is usually deteriorated making it more difficult and more expensive to sequence.
    Yes but they are trying to change the leading Turkic theory with an Iranian one and they need more to do so, 50% of the information is not enough. This "Iranian mania" is a great deal these days...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Thanks, you are right concerning the use of the world 'bougre' or 'bugger': etymologically I was right too but not concerning the historical explanation: I had not this explanation at hand but in my etymology book i red: BOUGRE, year 1172, "hérétique" "sodomite" (!) so confirming your version-
    I think as you too much mtDNA to less aDNA and Y-DNA - I suppose ancient mt-DNA is easier to recover than Y-DNA, well conserved? because this occrus very often, helas!
    The heretics were falsely accused for many amoral things (for the Middle Ages) such as homosexuality.
    You are right about what you said, just in different way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I apologize for not providing the link to the paper. It's Kovacevic et al, 2014: Standing at the Gateway to Europe: The Genetic Structure of Balkan Populations:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0105090

    The bright yellow along the top is the East Asian "Han" type component in this paper.

    The golden yellow along the bottom is the "Middle Eastern" component.
    Golden Yellow seems "SouthWest Asian" and the palid "pink/red" seems like "Caucasus" and the greenish component is "Gedrosia like".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Golden Yellow seems "SouthWest Asian" and the palid "pink/red" seems like "Caucasus" and the greenish component is "Gedrosia like".
    The golden yellow seems to be most common among Saudis, found in the section labelled as "Middle East" on the chart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drac II View Post
    The golden yellow seems to be most common among Saudis, found in the section labelled as "Middle East" on the chart.
    Yes and therefore it is more equivalent to the "Southwest Asian" but the palid red/pink and greenish component is more common among the further North you go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I apologize for not providing the link to the paper. It's Kovacevic et al, 2014: Standing at the Gateway to Europe: The Genetic Structure of Balkan Populations:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0105090

    The bright yellow along the top is the East Asian "Han" type component in this paper.

    The golden yellow along the bottom is the "Middle Eastern" component.

    Interesting study, i don't know about the sample but as for Kosovars, there is no such word as Kosovars, its Albanian, Gheg Albanian. And its Gheg Albanian language, Kosovo is a region inhabited mostly by Gheg Albanians. Am not also sure as of why from all the balkan inhabitantsin this study there is no Albanian.


    Also, pretty different from Ralph and Koop study

    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

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    The language of the Asparukh and Kuber Bulgars, Vocabulary and grammar
    Words, preserved in the historical and archaeological monuments from the VI-X cc. AD:


    Old Bulgar word Closest analogies Cluster_user's ottoman parallels
    ALEM (first) – the name of the first month Alein – frontal, first (Talish)
    ALTEM (last, back) – the name of the twelfth month Alt – back, lower (Celtic)
    ALKHASI KUPE (an armament, most probably – a siege tower) Alkhasi – a siege engine (Georgian) alkha is probably from `ar. Halqa(t) with a semitic H.
    AN (or EN) – in two inscriptions from Murfatlar An, en – a heaven (Sumerian) Inish – God (Eastern Caucasian)
    AS (an ash, mortal remains) in the expression ZENTY ASO E As – an ash (Kati, Pashto) Ase (Sogdian)
    AULI – the Greek name of the palace of Krum Auli – a building with a high wall (Pamirian) < turkic ag~ul, ag~Il (an enclosure, sheep or cattle pen, later village) hung. o'l (cattle pen), chuvash yal
    BAGAIN – a military commander Bakhoin – a military man (Eastern Caucasian)
    BAGATUR – a heavily armed horseman Bakhadur (North Indian) Bagatur (Georgian) turko-mongol < asiatic hunnic (clauson) > pers. baha:dur > ott. turk.
    BAN – a military deputy of a region Ban – a military commander (Eastern Caucasian), from BO – an army
    BELEG - a sign Belek – a sign, a mark (Georgian), Belyeg (Hungarian) turkic belgu", mong. belge. "sign, mark" *bel signifies "to be
    manifest"
    bil= "to know" chuvash palla~
    BIRI-BAGAIN – a commander of lightly armed horsemen from Bir – a cavalry band (Pamirian)
    BISER – precious beads for a necklace Bisjer – a multityde, many small things (Tadzhik) biser seems to be of arabic origin, meaning "bead" or "false pearl". Some qychaq languages seem to have it (in arabic it more commonly means unripe date(s) - busra(t), busr). I attribute it to either pecheneg turkic or the meditaranean trade.
    BO KOLABR – an army priest Kolobr – a priest and Bo – an army (Eastern Caucasian)
    BOILA – a noble, a lord Bo’la – a master (Vejnakh) Boul (Persian)
    BORU – a stronghold, a town Boru – a stronghold (Pamirian, Persian)

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    VER – the year of the Dragon Berka – a big snake (Eastern Caucasian) Waran – a gigantic lizard, Warendak – long, snake-like[SRS, 186]
    Vaireni – a dragon (Prakrit), Vaira – dangerous, Varuna – the god-protector of the water, "The Encompasser of the World"
    Dobrev also had the Dardic Peren (dragon), Proto-indian (?)Peran (large, long), the Chuvash Verem (long), the Sumero-Accadian Ur, Jurnu (dragon), the wide spread of this and other calendar terms of the nominalia pointing to the ancient chartacter of the cyclic calendar.
    veren < turkic evren "dragon", "firmament (i.e. sky, stars etc.), (also "oven") from evir= to turn around apparently ewren/evren was latter found as a volgabulghar name. either e/v reversal or evren > *o":ren > veren (o": > ve - found
    in -r turkic.
    iranian has avesta a*zh*i dahaka in a well known legend (later a half-serpent king, zohak, dahak in kurdish) for "dragon". new persian ejder, ejdeha (j=/zh/)
    VECHEM – the fifth month in the calendar Wjuch – five (Dardic) Wjuchem – fifth
    VESH – a month, a part of the year in the expression ELMA VESH Wesh – a part, a share (Pamirian) Vez (Va’z) – moon (Eastern Caucasian)
    VIKHTUN – to remove, to throw out (in the Nominalia) Bikht – ‘thrown away’ in Al-Biruni’s "India"
    GILS –a burial pot in the expression OKHSI TZIT MA GILS Gilos – a burial pot (Pamirian)
    DVAN – the year of the Hare Dvand – fleet-footed (Pamirian)
    DZHUDZHE – small, tiny Dzhudzhe – a small animal, a birdie, a chick (Eastern Caucasian)
    DILOM – the year of the Snake Tilok – a big worm (Pamirian) archaic turkic *dIlan > comm. turkic yIlan
    DOKHS – the year of the wild boar Tokhs – bad, fierce (Persian)
    EALKH – in the expression OKHSI YOVOK EALKH Jalkho – a servant, a slave (Eastern Caucasian)
    EVROPII MIZIJSK - ‘rulers of Moesia’ in Saint Kliment’s life Euri – a master (Urartian)
    EPI – in the expression EPI ITIP BILO Eb, emp – a wolf (Eastern Caicasian)
    ESTEK – eighteen, in the expression ESTEK KRNI I REZHET Astais – eighteen (Dardic) Histdan – eighteen (Pamirian)
    ESTROGIN KUPE – a type of armour, most probably a mail armour Jestrika – knitted (Pamirian)
    ETKH – the year of the Dog Jettu – a pack of dogs (Eastern Caucasian) Jjta – a dog (Chuvash)
    EFE – an isolated word on the walls of the churches in Murfatlar Efe – to excuse (Pamirian)
    EN – a heaven See AN
    ZOAPAN – a court title Zhoopan – an official (Eastern Caucasian) Chupan (Sogdian) from fsu-pana (Sanskrit)
    ZDCHII – a builder, an architect Zig – to rise, Zid – high (Sumerian), Sida (Urartian)
    ZERA – in the expressions ANZI ZERA, ZERA TARKANOS Dzra – a supervisor (Pamirian) Zera – a courier (Pamirian)
    ITZI – in the expression ANZI ZERA ITZI AZO E Ish – fair (Eastern Caucasian) Is – a world, God (Sanskrit)
    ITZIGI – holy See ITZI
    ICHIRGU BAGAIN – a commander of the archer or of the palace guard Ichirkho – an archer, a sentry (Eastern Caucasian) Isara – an arrow (Sanskrit)
    ICHURGU BOILA – the title of the commander of the garrison in the capital See ICHURGU
    KAVKHAN – the second most senior title in Bulgaria Kavkha – a chief of a town (Eastern Caucasian)
    KAZNACHII – a treasurer Khazna – a treasure (Persian, Pamirian)

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    KALU TARKAN – one of the participants in the wedding ceremony of Car Peter Kalu – a type of priests (Accadian) Kal – an oath (Pamirian)
    Kalum – to swear (Pamirian)
    CAMPSIS – the title of one of the Bulgarian representatives on the VIII. Ecumenical council – in the expression ZISUNAS CAPMSIS The original word must have been KABSI Kabshi – an advisor (Georgian)
    KANA – the most senior Bulgar title. In expressions such as KANA SUBIGI, KANA BOILA KOLOBR, etc. Kana – a chieftain (Eastern Caucasian) Kana – major, big (Pamirian)
    KANASUBIGI, KANESUBIGI – the official title of the Bulgar khans; from KANA (leader) and SUBIGI (divine) Similar to KANIZAUCI – the highest Avar title
    KANARTIKIN – the title of the heir to the throne Tikin – a heir (Eastern Caucasian) + Kanar – ‘of the Kana’
    KAPISHTE – a pagan Bulgar temple Kap – a prayer (Eastern Caucasian) Kapisha – a priest (Accadian) turkic ki:b - mould, model, later image, idol. ( -p ?)
    chuvash pek < *kep, hung ke'p
    yakut kieb , mong. keb
    KNIN – a title at the time of Car Simeon, mentioned together with MAGOTIN and IMNIK No correspondences found
    KRMCHII – a steersman Krm – to guide (Talish)
    KOLOBR – a priest Kolobkhar – a cleric (Persian) Kulbr (Pamirian)
    KORABCHII – a word translated in Greek as NAUTOS – sailor From the Greek Korabos (ship) with the Bulgar suffix -CHII
    KRAVCHII – a servant in the court, who cut and served the roasted meat Kravi – to cut meat (Sanskrit) Craf – to cut meat (Celtic)
    KRCHII, KRCHII – a mine-digger Kherrch – a furnace (Eastern Caucasian)
    KSISTON – a type of fish in Kubrat Bulgaria (in Southern Russia and the Caucasus) Sischiani – a type of bream (Georgian)
    KUVENTOS – the Bulgar people’s assembly ("The Bulgars gathered for a kuvent", in Theophanes) Coveth – to gather (Celtic)
    KUKUMIJ – a big metal vessel Kukuba – a cauldron (Accadian) Gumguma – a cauldron (Persian)
    Kumkum – a cauldron (Eastern Caucasian)
    byz. greek kukumi < lat. cucuma (nikos sarantakos)
    KUMIR – an idol Kumirtu – holy (Accadian) Gumiri – an idol (Alanian)
    KJUBE (written KUPE in Greek) – the general name for the metal armour Kupa – metal (noun) (Sanskrit) Kuba – an armour (Eastern Caucasian)
    Kubachi – the master of armour (Eastern Caucasian)
    KNIGACHII – a bookman See KNIGA
    KNIGA – a book Kunukku – a royal inscription (Accadian) Knik – a seal (Armenian) turkic * ku"ynig < chinese k`u"en "roll"
    hung. ko"nyv < oghur * ku"niv.
    mordiv. ko*ny*ov < old chuvash * ka*ny*Iv
    chuvash ke~neke < russian
    old uyghur ku"in, ku"in bitig (bitig "book" < chinese also) + turkic c,i
    IMAET – a trustee, in the expression ZHUPAN I IMAET GEORGE Imaet – a trustee, a guardian (Pamirian) imaet (pamirian) sounds like `ar. 'ama:na(t) (putting into trust) if so, the old bulgarian word must be something else.
    IMENSHEGOR – a stallion. The other name for the year of the Horse Imne – a horse (Mari) Imikhu – a donkey (Eastern Caucasian)
    IMNIK – the senior overseer in the palace stables Derived from IMEN (horse)
    LUR – a part of the dressing of Car Simeon, mentioned by John Exarch Lor – a knitted decoration, a necklace (Pamirian)
    MAGOTIN – a title at the time of Car Simeon Moguti – a title in the former Kubrat Bulgaria
    MIR – a court title, in the expression ZITKOI MIR from the Madara fortress Mir – a master, a ruler (Pamirian) Mikhr – a noble (Persian) mi:r is short for `ar. 'ami:r (an amir, commander, prince). This was noticed by menges, byzantion vol. 28, p. 447-448. According to him, it is not a title at all, but the last' syllable of a slavic proper name. I don't know about persian "mikhr" (not in any persian or middle persian dictionary of mine), but I find it unlikely that *kh* would drop out.
    MURZULI – a type of fish, mentioned together with KSISTON by Theophanes (IX c. AD) Murca – a barbel (Georgian) Murculi – of barbel (Georgian)
    OLKH – a word from a grave inscription Ol – to leave in peace (Pamirian)
    OLGU TARKAN – a court title Olka – a district (Georgian)
    PECHAT – a seal Bechedi – a seal (Georgian)
    PILE ZOPAN – in the expression TORTUNA PILE ZOPAN Pile – senior (Talish)
    SAMCHII – a title, translated in Greek as ‘MEIZOTEPOS’ – an authorized person, an intermediary Samadzh – communication, association (Sanskrit) Samo – a truce-envoy (Pamiro-Dardic)
    Sabchi – a messenger (Georgian)
    SAMPSIS – a part of the title of one of the Bulgarian representatives at the VIII. Ecumenical council Probably the same as SAMCHII
    SARAKT – a name of a border area at the time of Krum Sarkhad – a border (Pamirian) Sarak – a guarded road
    SOKACHII – a word, translated in Greek as MAGEIROS – cook Szacacs – a cook (Hungarian)
    SOMOR – the year of the Mouse (or the Rat) Smor – a sable (Parthian) Shupor – a flying mouse, a bat (Pamirian, Talish)
    SUKMAN – a Bulgarian woman’s dress (low-cut sleeveless dress) Sukban – a dress, a gown (Eastern Caucasian) Cokman – a dressing gown (Pamirian)
    TAGROGI – a word from Nagy Saint Miklos’ treasure, referring to the fraternization of two zhupans Tagarog – a reapproachment; becoming related by marriage (Persian)
    TAGGRAN – a word, which most probably referred to God Tangra. It would represen tthe only mentioning of Tangra in Bulgar inscriptions. Tanra – holy (Assyrian) Tandra – a thunder (Pamirian)
    Dingir – God (Sumerian)
    TARKAN – a judge, a supervisor Similar to the Alanian Tarkan (Ash takran) Tark – to judge (Sanskrit)
    TEKU (TAG) – the year of the Horse Teky – a donkey (Caucasian) Tajku – a foal (Pamirian)
    TVIREM – the fourth month in the calendar Tuirea – four (Sanskrit) Cfir, Twir – four (Pamirian)
    TES – a golden basin, a bowl, in the expression ‘BOILA ZOAPAN TEZI’ Tesh – a basin, a bowl (Pamirian) T’sh – a basin, a bowl (Talish, Persian)
    Compare also to Tesh – gold (Eastern Caucasian)
    TORTUNA – a guard of a ford Tortu – a ford (Pamirian)
    TOKH – the year of the Cock Tukh – a hen (Pamirian) Tokh – a hen (Ugric) hung. tyu'k < og~uric *tIvuq < turkic taq:ag~u, taquq etc.
    (chuvash studies)
    TUBA – ‘a vow’ or ‘a holy gift’. In the expression "Tongan iz polou tuba obasa" Tuba – a vow, a pledge (Pamirian, Eastern Caucasian) Or from Tuva – a gift (See below) I would discard tuba. `ar. tawba(t) - vow (of regret)
    TUVIN – in the Omurtag's expression "And the tuvin is famous, fine." Tuva – a gift (Talish, Eastern Caucasian) TUVIN probably means ‘given as gift’ if tuva is taken to be from "pashto" tuhfa - gift - this etymology is impossible since tuhfa is a later day loan from arabic tuHfa(t) "gift", with a /H/ i.e. /h./ pharyngeal unvoiced fricative which is not native to pashto and is generally afro-asiatic. see aslanov pashto-russian p. 218 (2nd col. - "podarok") for confirmation.
    TURNESI – ‘golden coins’ in one three-lingual passage, containing the Greek, the Slav and the Bulgar name of the golden coins Turanshi – yellow, golden (Persian) probably turan*dj*i:, turun*dj*i turun*dj*, turan*dj* means "an orange", turun*dj*i:, turan*dj*i: means "orange colored". the closest i found was a metaphorical name for the sun by steingass as turun*dj*i: zer (zar = gold, golden). asside from the fact that the -i: sufifx was i:k in middle persian, somehow I find this explanation as giving "too colloquial" a name for the coin.
    TUTOM – the second month of the year Tutam – second (Persian) Dutom – second (Pamiro-Dardic)
    KHLOBRIN – a type of armament. It was available in only one copy in the Preslav inscription. Khulbure – a protective cover (Pamirian)
    KHONSA – a thief. A word explained as being a Bulgar one in codex ‘Suidas’ (X c. AD), when speaking about the laws introduced by Krum. Khonsa – a vicious person (Persian) Khonc – a plunder (Eastern Caucasian) can't find the persian word. the closest in new persian (in the
    dictionary used by dobrev) is xu:n serd litt. "cold-blooded" in other places xu:nsa:z "murderer" - from xu:n = blood.
    KHUMSHI KJUBE – a type of armour, most probably made of a single piece of metal Hunzu – moulded, cast in metal piece (Accadian)
    CHIGOT – a swordsman Chiko – a big knife (Pamirian)
    CHITEM – the third month of the year Citiya – three (Sanskrit)
    CHVAN – cast iron The only analog is the Dari Chawan
    CHVANCHII – an iron-smith From CHAVAN with the suffix -CHII
    SHAR – a paint, a dye Shir – a paint (Eastern Caucasian) Sar – to paint (Sumerian) > tu"rku"t (?) sIr ("lacquer" - ka$gari) < middle chinese *ts`[email protected] (> ch`i) it is attributed to the tu"rku"t on the grounds of the phonetics of chinese. it appears that a middle chinese dialect in contact with tu"rku"t had -r < -t. there are some other examples in tu"rku"t to support this.
    in bulgarian it would be a bulghar word acquired from common turkic before the migration to the danube.
    uyghur sIrc,I (later "painter", with turkic suffix).
    qazan tatar sIr "paint", chuvash sa~r (< tatar?)
    NB oghur palatization $ < s + palatal
    SHARCHII – a painter Shirchi – a painter (Eastern Caucasian)
    SHEGOR – the year of the Bull (Ox) Sheg – a bull (Pamirian), Ceg (Eastern Caucasian)
    Shegor – a deer-bull (zekhre)
    turkic sIg~Ir "cattle," large quadruped.
    SHEKHTEM – the sixth month Shekh – six (Pamirian, Dardic)
    SHILE – a (weaned) lamb Sila – a lamb (Sumerian) Shile – the child of an animal (Kabarda dialects)

  21. #21
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    A few words there Bosnians use
    Ban- title of medieval Bosnian ruler
    Beleg- (bosnian) Biljeg word for birthmark to my experince
    Biser also means pearl in Bosnain.
    Shar=paint could be related to Sharen, Shareno means colorful or share, shara means color stripe.

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