101 Ancient Eurasian Genomes Available Online

how far east? Balkans and Ukraine where dominated by Goths
and there was also pressure from the east : 99 BC Hunns arrived near the Aral Sea

The Goths never "dominated" the Balkans. They did dominate western Ukraine, Moldova, and Transylvania. Eventually the migrated south of the Danube River escaping the Huns. If you consider Transylvania as "Balkans", then yes. But as far as I recall Balkans are all south of the Danube?
 
Modern Bulgarians and Hungarians are mostly - or largely - of Slavic ancestry.

I have been to both Bulgaria and Hungary and I did not notice anything "Slavic" about them. The Bulgarians looked very similar to Greeks and southern Italians, while the Hungarians looked very similar to Croats, Austrians and Germans.

R1a = 24% Croats
R1a = 30% Hungarians
R1a = 19% Austria
R1a = 17% Bulgarians

Only Hungarians have some significance but others not.
 
Yes but as you said the Germans drove these people out and then they came back as "Slavs" but were driven out again by Saxons during the Early Middle Ages. Like I said: East Germany is a genetic barrier to the peoples from the East.

It would be interesting to see how much of this R1a the Goths, Burgundians, Vandals, and others was absorbed?
Yes, we need to wait for a detailed movement of R1a subclades and others, to have a full picture of assimilation of locals during cultural shifts.
 
Only Hungarians have some significance but others not.

R1a was not the only haplogroup that Proto-Slavs had.

For example I2a-Din was definitely spread by Slavic migrations as well.

One hotspot is in Polesia, the other one in Bosnia, and TMRCA is very young.
 
The reason why mtDNA diversity is much greater than Y-DNA diversity in all populations, is:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...d-for-Every-One-Man-in-analysis-of-modern-DNA

An analysis of modern DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture.

Once upon a time, 4,000 to 8,000 years after humanity invented agriculture, something very strange happened to human reproduction (...) for every 17 women who were reproducing, passing on genes that are still around today - only one man did the same.

"It wasn't like there was a mass death of males. They were there, so what were they doing?" asks Melissa Wilson Sayres, a computational biologist at Arizona State University, and a member of a group of scientists who uncovered this moment in prehistory by analyzing modern genes. (...)

Then, as more thousands of years passed, the numbers of men reproducing, compared to women, rose again. (...) In more recent history, as a global average, about four or five women reproduced for every one man.

So if we go back several centuries, we have 5 - 4 times more female ancestors than male ancestors.

If we go back several millennia, this increases to 17 times more female ancestors than male ancestors.

===================================

Polygyny + patriarchy + wars.
 
The reason why mtDNA diversity is much greater than Y-DNA diversity in all populations, is:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...d-for-Every-One-Man-in-analysis-of-modern-DNA



So if we go back several centuries, we have 5 - 4 times more female ancestors than male ancestors.

If we go back several millennia, this increases to 17 times more female ancestors than male ancestors.

===================================

Polygyny + patriarchy + wars.

Hypergamy theory at work.
 
Alan
But You believe that Armenians came from Balkans right? :) Balkanic theory is part of Kurgan model.
In Kurgan model Indo-Iranians came from Sintashta and Andronovo.

But if You think that Iranians were present in South Caucasus and North West Iran in BA then this is a very different model. Something like Gamkrelidze Ivanov model but shifted to N Iran.

Sincerly I believe that this second option is quite viable. ;)

I read more Armenian texts and Armenians mostly refuse that Armenian language came from Balkans, and I think Armenians are right.

What I found interesting, it is room between Armenian and West and North Iranian languages.

The link exists between Armenian, Albanian and West and North Iranian languages.

Probably speakers of Proto Albanian were between speakers of Proto Armenian and speakers of forerunners of West and North Iranian languages.

Armenian language probably created in Eastern Anatolia (and Albanian probably created in similar area, maybe more eastern comparing with Armenian), not only West and North Iranian languages, even Kurdish should have some similarities with Armenian and Albanian, although it is second branch in relation with Armenian.
 
And do you know maybe Tomenable,
whom were Magdalenians? Hg I too,
or maybe some diffrent ethnos came
into Europe... I'm courios...

Magdalenian was Gravettian, so haplo I too.
During LGM all Europe was Gravettian, all I, except few pockets Aurignacian tribe C1a mesolithic left (cfr La Brana)
Before arrival of Gravettian (33 ka) European proto-Aurignacian expanded into Levantine Aurignacian. That is why there was few neolithic C1a too.
 
Magdalenian was Gravettian, so haplo I too. During LGM all Europe was Gravettian, all I, except few pockets Aurignacian tribe C1a mesolithic left (cfr La Brana)
Before arrival of Gravettian (33 ka) European proto-Aurignacian expanded into Levantine Aurignacian. That is why there was few neolithic C1a too.

Did I correctly understand you, that all (majority) C1-people left Europe?

Where at present live C1 - if they exist of course...
Are maybe some local majorities of them?
 
The Goths never "dominated" the Balkans. They did dominate western Ukraine, Moldova, and Transylvania. Eventually the migrated south of the Danube River escaping the Huns. If you consider Transylvania as "Balkans", then yes. But as far as I recall Balkans are all south of the Danube?

@ Johannes

there is a strange connection among in Balkans and Crimea with Gothic,
some say that Thracian Getae were simmilar with Goths,
land of Ostrogoths (Auster-Getae) VisiGoths (Besii-Getae)
Crimean Gothic until after 1900
I admit that somehow I believe, I can not certify, neither is attested that gothic and Getae have a connection among them,
I believe Thracian was not Satem, but split to satem and centum much after 500BC and satem Thracian with Scythian created Slavic,
all the above is a feeling, nothing serious,
that many wonder why and how,
but we found strange Gothic/germanic vocabulary in Slavic, Albanian, even in Greek, and that is not expected, neither explained,

for example how you can explaine the Albanian Dera (door) that is a germanic aspiration with Greek Θυρα and celtic Port and S Slavic Vrata, south of Danube?
if Goths did not cross south of Danube?
 
I admit that somehow I believe, I can not certify, neither is attested that gothic and Getae have a connection among them,

A couple of tribes are split among many indoeurpean branches.

Getians, Gutians, Massagetans, Gots, Gaets, Gutars, Tyssagets, Wisigots, Ostrogoths could be the one of them.

for example how you can explaine the Albanian Dera (door) that is a germanic aspiration with Greek Θυρα and celtic Port and S Slavic Vrata, south of Danube?
if Goths did not cross south of Danube?

This is normal indoeuropean and slavic word.

Slavic simples:
russian: Dvierь - singular, fem. (as albanian dera?)
polish: drzwi - pl.
churchslavonic: dverь - sing, fem. (as albanian dera?)
praslavic: dvьrь
ukrainian: dveri
slovenian: duri
lithianian: duris



As you see, there is no need for Goths.
It could be of indoeuropean or slavic origin.

Wrota - they could be in castle, not in house :)
 
Yetos, Rethel

Albanian derë is not from Germanic or Slavic.

It is from Iranian: در (dr); Albanian has similarities with Iranian languages (North/Caucasus, Western, etc. Iranian languages).
 
A couple of tribes are split among many indoeurpean branches.

Getians, Gutians, Massagetans, Gots, Gaets, Gutars, Tyssagets, Wisigots, Ostrogoths could be the one of them.



This is normal indoeuropean and slavic word.

Slavic simples:
russian: Dvierь - singular, fem. (as albanian dera?)
polish: drzwi - pl.
churchslavonic: dverь - sing, fem. (as albanian dera?)
praslavic: dvьrь
ukrainian: dveri
slovenian: duri
lithianian: duris



As you see, there is no need for Goths.
It could be of indoeuropean or slavic origin.

Wrota - they could be in castle, not in house :)

the difference is that south of istros (danube) this d is missing,
Greek θυρα
Serbian Vrata
Croatian
Bulgarian
at least in google trans

it means that does not follow balkanic aspirations,
which means is either a loan word,
either entered from North of danube or Iran as Garrick claims
 
Serbian Vrata

But vrata it is not the same, as dw'r'.
Etimologically comes from different roots.
It is protoslavic *vorta.
So, there is not missing "d".


In polish and russian it means that: https://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/πύλη#el

In english it would be gate.

Something like that, or even bigger:

Picswiss_NW-26-03.jpg
 
In Latvian vārti was for every sēta :)
Durvis for house, vārti for backyard.
 
The reason why mtDNA diversity is much greater than Y-DNA diversity in all populations, is:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...d-for-Every-One-Man-in-analysis-of-modern-DNA



So if we go back several centuries, we have 5 - 4 times more female ancestors than male ancestors.

If we go back several millennia, this increases to 17 times more female ancestors than male ancestors.

===================================

Polygyny + patriarchy + wars.

It is clear the warriors often had several women at the same time, the women where also traded a lot, maybe even bred like horses.
 
Garrick
You are probably right. I saw Your thread about Slavic - Thracian connections. I think it is very probable.
I strongly advise Slavic linguists to search common words with Phrygian also. I bet You will find some many interesting examples.

Just my amateur examples.
Gordum - Grad, Gorod - City town.
Zemelo - Zemlia , *zemja - a ground, a mortal a slave, man on ground
eistani - *sta, Stanovit - (they are setting), to setup something
eksis, ezis - Slavic *ezji, Greek ekhinos, Armenian ozni, Lithuanian ez'ys (a hedgehog) - Note that the Slavic form is closer and lacks the N that is present in Greek and Armenian forms
wit- vedat - (to know) also to see videt in Russian.

http://tied.verbix.com/project/glossary/phry.html
http://www.palaeolexicon.com/Phrygian
 
From Anthrogenica:



Corded Ware:

I0103 (Germany) - 68,75% Yamnaya / 20,0% WHG / 11,25% Neolithic
RISE94 (Sweden) - 46,25% Yamnaya / 32,5% WHG / 21,25% Neolithic
RISE00 (Estonia) - 35,0% Yamnaya / 47,5% WHG / 17,5% Neolithic

Sintashta:

RISE386 - 52,5% Yamnaya / 32,5% WHG / 15,0% Neolithic
RISE392 - 40,0% Yamnaya / 45,0% WHG / 15,0% Neolithic

Afanasievo:

RISE509 - 92,5% Yamnaya / 7,5% WHG / 0,0% Neolithic

Andronovo:

RISE509 - 73,9% Yamnaya / 0,0% WHG / 15,7% Neolithic / 10,4% South Indian
RISE509 - 61,6% Yamnaya / 17,0% WHG / 6,4% Neolithic / 15,0% Siberian


I avow I'm a bit confused by this study - but when I look at others analysis of Late Neolithic-Bronze Ages or Antiquity people, made by scientists AND lobbyists I see they were surely less homogenous than sedentary agricole populations of XX°Century Europe! They were moving people, some of them with skills in metallurgy and changing place and marrying afar.
I 'm almost sure we are speaking here of kind of elite people; I think we loose a lot concerning more basic people of their tribes... some of the mtDNA were seemignly closer to 'east-asian' origins in some individuals of East Steppes.
 
It is clear the warriors often had several women at the same time, the women where also traded a lot, maybe even bred like horses.

we have exactly the same number of male and female ancestors: it the variety (quality) of female ancestors which is in cause, not the bumber (quantity);
the effect of polygamyt is not creating more "mothers" than "fathers"! only more possible mixing: possible only, not obliged because if the numerous wives of a man are all taken in the same close human stock, it doesn' t change greatly! polygamy: more females mating for a male (less for the other males, by the way), more children, but not more ancestors for a child! Just an inoffensive precision.
 
But vrata it is not the same, as dw'r'.
Etimologically comes from different roots.
It is protoslavic *vorta.
So, there is not missing "d".

In english it would be gate.

OK correct, 2 roots: it's not the very thread, but I think 'vrata' contains a I-Ean root akin to latine 'vert-', 'versus' see 'to revert': notion of circular move, rotation?
 

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