Slavic homeland and ethnogenesis

[Милан М.]

Old toponyms and some personal names.


Thracian.

Zerynthus was a town of the Apsynthii, in Thrace that is the site of Zerynthius, a temple of Apollo, and Zerynthia, a cave sacred to Hecate.
Etymology.IE;ghwer,Old Church Slav-Zverъ,Lithuanian zveriš all "wild beast"




Zaldapa.Etymology IE; Ghold.Old Church Slav-Zlato,Goth Gulp,all with meaning Gold.


Beodizos-diza is the meaning of fortress in Thracian found among Thracian settlements,perhaps in it's original form,avestan Daeza "wall",Slav Zida instead Diza "wall" verb Zida,Zid "building a wall" compare with Beograd the Slavic meaning of fortress today Grad,White Fortress,City.


Personal name;Saecus,Zaecethures,Zaecaepor.Old church Slav-Zajecъ "hare" Latin haedus "young he-goat"


Thracian settlements with the ending "Dama" Duridanov connect it with the Sanskrit Dama meaning "home" settlement,the common Slavic word for home is "Dom" Doma-home


Thracian Bago-God,Slavonic-Bog


Settlements-Berge,Brega,Bergule.Slavonic meaning Breg hill,slope,mountain,Blg-Bereg.German,Russian Berg with same meaning.


Perun's wife god of thunder Dodola and her ritual;
The custom is known by two names, mostly spelled Dodola (dodole, dudula, dudulica, dodolă) and Perperuna (peperuda, peperuna, perperuna, prporuša, preporuša, păpărudă, pirpirună). Both names are used by the South Slavs and Romanians.
The name Perperuna is identified as a feminine personification of the great god Perun.Thracian anthroponyms (personal names) and toponyms (place names), such as Doidalsos, Doidalses, Dydalsos, Dudis, Doudoupes,in Greece exist Dodona.Compare with today Bulgarian names today and some other Slavic-Dado,Dido,Dilo and of course the ritual itself Dodola.

Slavic god of thunder Perun Thracian Perkon/Perkun.

 

[Милан М.]

Reconstructed toponyms from Illyria.


Derbanoí, Anderva: IE *derw; cf. Eng. tree, Old Ch. Slav. drĕvo "tree", Rus. dérevo "tree, wood", Welsh derw "oak", Gk. dóry "wood, spear", drýs "oak, tree


Oseriates "lakes": IE *h1eĝʰero; cf. Serb-Croat. jȅzero, Rus. ózero, Lith. éžeras, Latvian ȩzȩrs, Gk. Achérōn "river in the underworld"


Tergitio "merchant"; Old Ch. Slav. trĭgŭ (Serbo-Croat tȑg) "market


Trieste-The original pre-Roman name of the city, Tergeste -the market place of the Illyrians,etymologically related to Old Church Slavonic tьrgъ "market" (whence Slovenian and Croatian trg / trg / tržište and the Scandinavian borrowing torg)
Tergoviste,Trgoviste,Targoviste found in every Slavic country.

Naro fl.
Place: river Neretva, Croatia-Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Naronus fl. (Ptol.) Naro fl. (Strab., Cat., Scyl.)
Etymology: Usually (Pokorny) considered as one of the prototypes of the IE root *ner- 'to conceal, cover, hiding place, hollow'. Compare with Nar fl. and with many Slavic and Baltic place names. The a vowel in the stem may be explained as the reflex of a very old IE stratum (Old European), which is typical of hydronyms.



Loúgeon: Strabo in his Geography mentions "a marsh called Lougeon" (which has been identified as Lake Cerknica in Slovenia) by the locals (Illyrian and Celtic tribes), Lougeon being Strabo's rendition of the local toponym into Greek. Lith. liűgas "pool", Old Ch. Slav. & Rus. luža "pool", Rus. ležátj "to lie, rest, lounge" and ložitj "to lay, put", Thrac. Lýginos, river name.


Naro: Naronus IE *nor; nãras "diving duck; diver", Russ. norá "hole", Serbo-Croat. po-nor "abyss" nur,Macedonian Slavic verb nurni -dive,illyrian tribe Narensii,later Slavic Neretljani on the same river Neretva.


Pelso (Latin authors referred to modern Lake Balaton as "lacus Pelso", Pelso being a hydronym from the local inhabitants), Pelso apparently meant "deep" or "shallow": IE *pels-; Rus. ples (deep place in lake or river), cf. Czech pleso "deep place in a river, lake", Welsh bwlch "crack", Arm. pelem "to dig"


Volcos, river name in Pannonia; Old Ch. Slav. and Rus. vlaga "moisture, plant juice", Volga, river name in Russia, ? vŭlgŭkŭ "wet", Latv. val̃gums "wetness"cf. Old Ir. folc "heavy rain, wet weather", Welsh golchi "to wash", obsolete Eng. welkin "cloud", Old High Germ. welk "moist",


Metubarbis IE; Metu borb,marsh region between Savus
Old Church Slav "bara" marsh according to Katicic Illyrian will be "between the marches" today Slavic will be "Medju bare"

 

[Милан М.]

Old Mountains.


Carpathians.
In late Roman documents, the Eastern Carpathian Mountains were referred to as Montes Sarmatici (meaning Sarmatian Mountains).The Western Carpathians were called Carpates, a name that is first recorded in Ptolemy's Geographia (2nd century AD).


The name of the Carpates may ultimately be from the Proto-Indo-European root *(s)ker-
Macedonian Slavic, Bulgarian "karpa" meaning (rock,cliff) Albanian karpë (rock) and the Slavic word skála (rock, cliff), perhaps via a Dacian cognate which meant mountain, rock, or rugged ,
The archaic Polish word karpa meant "rugged irregularities, underwater obstacles/rocks, rugged roots or trunks".The more common word skarpa means a sharp cliff or other vertical terrain. The more common word skarpa means a sharp cliff or other vertical terrain. Germanic root *skerp-, Old Norse harfr "harrow", Middle Low German scharf "potsherd" and Modern High German Scherbe "shard", Old English scearp and English sharp, Lithuanian kar~pas "cut, hack, notch", Latvian cìrpt "to shear, clip"). The name may instead come from Indo-European *kwerp "to turn", akin to Old English hweorfan "to turn, change" (English warp) and Greek καρπός karpós "wrist", perhaps referring to the way the mountain range bends or veers in an L-shape.


Rhodope Mountains.


The name of the Rhodope mountains has a Thracian provenance. Rhod-ope (Род-oпа) is interpreted as the first name of a river, meaning "rusty/reddish river", where Rhod- has the same Indo-European root as the Slavic and Bulgarian "ruda" (ore, "ruda"), "ръжда" (rust, "rǎžda"), "риж" (red-haired, "riž"), Latin "rufus" (red) and German "rot" (red).

 

[Милан М.]

Fascinanting art.
The Madara Rider or Madara Horseman (Bulgarian: Мадарски конник, Madarski konnik) is an early medieval large rock relief carved on the Madara Plateau east of Shumen in northeastern Bulgaria, near the village of Madara.The monument is dated in the very late 7th,or more often very early 8th century, during the reign of Bulgar Khan Tervel.In 1979 became enlisted on the UNESCO World Heritage List.
The relief depicts a majestic horseman 23 m (75 ft) above ground level in an almost vertical 100 m (328 ft)-high cliff. The horseman, facing right, is thrusting a spear into a lion lying at his horse's feet, and on the left a dog is running after the horseman.

A votive tablet of a Thracian horseman found near the village of Zlatna Panega, Lovech district. II - III c. AD. National Archaeological Museum - Sofia,Bulgaria (left)

A votive tablet of a Thracian horseman found in a sanctuary near the village of Ezero, Plovdiv district. III c. AD. National Archaeological Museum - Sofia,Bulgaria (right)

A votive tablet of a Thracian horseman found near the village of Zlatna Panega, Lovech district. II - III c. AD.
National Archaeological Museum - Sofia

Veles is defeated by Perun Žrnovnica, Croatia, probably 8th century.

A votive tablet of the deity Sylvanus found in his sanctuary near the modern village of Liljache, Vraca district (end of II c. AD).
National Archaeological Museum - Sofia

"Thracian horseman" relief with Latin inscription at Philippi.

Saint George the victorious.

An important Serbian example of the influence of the Thracian Horseman in Christian iconography appears in the badly damaged wall painting of St George in the ruins of Đurđevi stupovi (the Towers of St George) (circa 1168)

If anyone has picture or can find a depiction of the Thracian horseman from this church above please send it,i love the depiction of the Thracian hero or anything similar to that depiction.

 

[gyms]

I2a-CTS10228 is:
- haplogroup found in Eastern Europe only (if we exclude modern day migrations)
- haplogroup which has highest frequency in the Balkans compared to other haplogroups
- its older branches and closest relatives are found in Northern Europe only (NOT in the Balkans)
- closest ancient DNA haplogroups were found in Northern Europe only (NOT in the Balkans)
- frequency of this haplogroup in Italy can be neglected, and at the same time there is a great similarity in distribution of other haplogroups in Italy compared with Southeast Europe (E-V13, R1b-L23, J2, G2a)
- TMRCA of that haplogroup is estimated to be very young compared to other haplgroups in Southeast Europe

What I've learned is that when I write conclusions, they are rarely taken as they are. So maybe it is better if I leave it to you to make some conclusion based on the points from above.

Hae you seen this?

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2288-Big-Y-results-for-I2a-Dinaric&p=105783#post105783

The newly discovered subclade, marked by A2512 (Y2512 is a typo), is downstream of CTS10228 and is definitely "Dinaric" (according to the old Nordtvedt definition) in Y-STR haplotype. But its wide geographical distribution is indeed anomalous, calling into question the usual identification of I-CTS10228 with Slavic expansion. Perhaps only the I-Y3548 subclade expanded explosively with the Slavs per se, and the other I-CTS10228 subclades reflect a slightly earlier, gentler expansion?

The blog post makes clear that this new subclade is actually marked by two SNPs: A2512 and the unnamed 9853064. Moreover, the Greek and Chuvash examples share yet another SNP, A7134.

In any case, we must recall that besides the four subclades of I-CTS10228, we still have one stubborn singleton, with patrilineage from southeastern Poland.

But its wide geographical distribution is indeed anomalous, calling into question the usual identification of I-CTS10228 with Slavic expansion. Perhaps only the I-Y3548 subclade expanded explosively with the Slavs per se, and the other I-CTS10228 subclades reflect a slightly earlier, gentler expansion?

 

[MOESAN]

Hae you seen this?

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2288-Big-Y-results-for-I2a-Dinaric&p=105783#post105783

The newly discovered subclade, marked by A2512 (Y2512 is a typo), is downstream of CTS10228 and is definitely "Dinaric" (according to the old Nordtvedt definition) in Y-STR haplotype. But its wide geographical distribution is indeed anomalous, calling into question the usual identification of I-CTS10228 with Slavic expansion. Perhaps only the I-Y3548 subclade expanded explosively with the Slavs per se, and the other I-CTS10228 subclades reflect a slightly earlier, gentler expansion?

The blog post makes clear that this new subclade is actually marked by two SNPs: A2512 and the unnamed 9853064. Moreover, the Greek and Chuvash examples share yet another SNP, A7134.

In any case, we must recall that besides the four subclades of I-CTS10228, we still have one stubborn singleton, with patrilineage from southeastern Poland.

But its wide geographical distribution is indeed anomalous, calling into question the usual identification of I-CTS10228 with Slavic expansion. Perhaps only the I-Y3548 subclade expanded explosively with the Slavs per se, and the other I-CTS10228 subclades reflect a slightly earlier, gentler expansion?

Thanks, very interesting, but could you precise the % distribution of everyone of these new discovered subclades of Y-I2a-CTS10228? and their supposed dates of apparition? It could help.

 

[gyms]

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820#pone-0135820-g005

The presence of two distinct genetic substrata in the genomes of East-West and South Slavs would imply cultural assimilation of indigenous populations by bearers of Slavic languages as a major mechanism of the spread of Slavic languages to the Balkan Peninsula. Yet, it is worthwhile to add here evidence from the analysis of IBD segments: the majority of Slavs from Central-East Europe (West and East) share as many IBD segments with the South Slavs in the Balkan Peninsula as they share with non-Slavic populations residing nowadays between Slavs (Fig 4A and 4B; Table G in S1 File). This even mode of IBD sharing might suggest shared ancestry/gene flow across the wide area and physical boundaries such as the Carpathian Mountains, including the present-day Finno-Ugric-speaking Hungarians, Romance-speaking Romanians and Turkic-speaking Gagauz. A slight peak at 2–3 cM in the distribution of shared IBD segments between East-West and South Slavs (Fig 4A and 4B) might hint at shared “Slavonic-time” ancestry, but this question requires further investigation.

 

[MOESAN]

Milan, you posted a lot of placenames, of antiquity and of today, and I would be pleased to look at them; but there are a lot of assumptions, and the old forms concerned a vaste territory from Pannonia (even Italy) to old Thracia, what doesn't help; some of the phonetic correspondances are unsure, some are sure but don't prove an ancient presence of slavic in the concerned region or they mark only a satem language presence without any proof of well evolved slavic. Your "telegraphic" style doesn't help much more.
It's a pity because you have the merit to provide a lot of ancient placenames in central Europe I had not at hand.
the better would be to retain only the more evident elemtns of proofs of a slavic presence in Balkans and Pannonia along with clear explanations of meaning and phonetic evolution and derivation, according to you, and leave the others aside.
No offense, I've no agenda and we need to take any opinon in account, out of any scholar dogma.

 

[MOESAN]

Milan: I add: a date of apparition of placenames would be very precious too. I've confidence in you when you put your sources, but my historic knowledge is weak and I prefer dates!

 

[Милан М.]

Milan, you posted a lot of placenames, of antiquity and of today, and I would be pleased to look at them; but there are a lot of assumptions, and the old forms concerned a vaste territory from Pannonia (even Italy) to old Thracia, what doesn't help; some of the phonetic correspondances are unsure, some are sure but don't prove an ancient presence of slavic in the concerned region or they mark only a satem language presence without any proof of well evolved slavic. Your "telegraphic" style doesn't help much more.
It's a pity because you have the merit to provide a lot of ancient placenames in central Europe I had not at hand.
the better would be to retain only the more evident elemtns of proofs of a slavic presence in Balkans and Pannonia along with clear explanations of meaning and phonetic evolution and derivation, according to you, and leave the others aside.
No offense, I've no agenda and we need to take any opinon in account, out of any scholar dogma.

If you are reffering on the one in #153 and #154 those are google translated from Serbian to English i wrote about that and are not translated properly,the years are indeed confusing,roughly from 500B.C to 600A.D compared with present day and some compared similar or with same name from among other Slavic countries later,it is Safarik work not mine,i didn't had so much time to translate it toponym by toponym plus my English is not very best and i doubt anyone will appreciate that work for which i will need hours maybe,the problem with toponyms in my opinion is all are written in Latin and Greek,so they don't spell or call like those "natives" there does,nowhere i say that toponyms are Slavic,in my posts i just give explanations to some ancient tribes or toponyms in the Slavic language,scholars should determine better but so far there is no plausible explanation although some wish to claim that is done deal.

 

[MOESAN]

to MIlan
Thanks for kind answer. I'll send you some thoughts from time to time (it takes a lot).
That said, latine and greek transcriptions can give us some clues even if not totally exact. A satem evolution by instance, can appear even through this unperfect transcription.

 

[Goga]

So where is Slavic homeland located? Do they come from the same NorthEast European peripheral areas where according to Herodotus Androphagi (European cannibals) lived? Or only N1c1 folks are from there and that proto-Slavic folks were just Creols of N1c1, I2a and R1a-Z280 folks.

 

[Милан М.]

Milan, you posted a lot of placenames, of antiquity and of today, and I would be pleased to look at them; but there are a lot of assumptions, and the old forms concerned a vaste territory from Pannonia (even Italy) to old Thracia, what doesn't help; some of the phonetic correspondances are unsure, some are sure but don't prove an ancient presence of slavic in the concerned region or they mark only a satem language presence without any proof of well evolved slavic. Your "telegraphic" style doesn't help much more.
It's a pity because you have the merit to provide a lot of ancient placenames in central Europe I had not at hand.
the better would be to retain only the more evident elemtns of proofs of a slavic presence in Balkans and Pannonia along with clear explanations of meaning and phonetic evolution and derivation, according to you, and leave the others aside.
No offense, I've no agenda and we need to take any opinon in account, out of any scholar dogma.

What for you evolved Slavic means,how you think that Slavic evolved,when and where or was it where it is,that is the question?it's part of IE tree Balto-Slavic like any other language,i don't see any special treatment or evolvement in that matter,languages evolved and changed all the time some more some less.

 

[Милан М.]

Ancient Weapons.
Sica
The sica was a short sword or large dagger of ancient Illyrians, Thracians and Dacians, used in Ancient Rome too. It was originally depicted as a curved sword with a blade about 16–18 inches long (40–45 cm) and many examples have been found in what are today Albania, Romania, Bosnia, Bulgaria and Serbia. It is also depicted on Trajan's Column; notably the Dacian king Decebalus is depicted committing suicide with one.
Sica Ancient Paleo-Balkan weapon

Origin of name
According to Dictionnaire des Antiquités Grecques et Romaines, tome 4, volume 2 (R–S), Paris, 1926, p. 1300, s.v. sica, the name Sica comes from Proto-Indo-European root sek-, meaning "to cut", "to section". Roman author Valerius Maximus, III, 2.12, said that sica was the Dacian name for the curved short sword/bigger knife of this,preserved in South Slavic languages sek-meaning "to cut" seči-"to cut,to chop" sečivo-"blade" "cutting edge".Old.Ch.Sl-seko with same meaning.


According to historian John Wilkes
Although a short curved sword was used by several peoples around the Mediterranean the Romans regarded the sica as a distinct Illyrian weapon used by the stealthy 'assassin' (sicarius)

 

[MOESAN]

What for you evolved Slavic means,how you think that Slavic evolved,when and where or was it where it is,that is the question?it's part of IE tree Balto-Slavic like any other language,i don't see any special treatment or evolvement in that matter,languages evolved and changed all the time some more some less.

It's the specialists task specifying the phonetic traits that mark or don't mark the slavic specificity in front of "cousin" satem languages, and the dates of apparition of the distinctive traits leading to a separation and so to an identity; I totally agree that at some stage of History the slavic speaking ancestors were not or less distinct from others languages speakers ancestors; it's the problem of every ethnicity "by separation".
if satem languages traces appear in toponymy we have to find out if they are the fact of say a thracian or dacian language (or neighbor) or the fact of a balto-slavic one or a proto-slavic one, with the difficulties it can carry;we have to find out the date too, important for History. a ancient phonetic stage without further evolution can mark the presence at ancient time of the people speaking the proto-language AND its disparition of the region, because it did not follow the common evolution of the proto-language into "well-evolved" current language carried by the subsequent generations as in other regions; I know evolved forms can prove 1- a constant presence in place - 2- a recent intorduction: this last case is very rare today, at expansion times it could have been more common. Etc... and so on... I know it is not easy to make certain.

 

[Taranis]

It's the specialists task specifying the phonetic traits that mark or don't mark the slavic specificity in front of "cousin" satem languages, and the dates of apparition of the distinctive traits leading to a separation and so to an identity; I totally agree that at some stage of History the slavic speaking ancestors were not or less distinct from others languages speakers ancestors; it's the problem of every ethnicity "by separation".
if satem languages traces appear in toponymy we have to find out if they are the fact of say a thracian or dacian language (or neighbor) or the fact of a balto-slavic one or a proto-slavic one, with the difficulties it can carry;we have to find out the date too, important for History. a ancient phonetic stage without further evolution can mark the presence at ancient time of the people speaking the proto-language AND its disparition of the region, because it did not follow the common evolution of the proto-language into "well-evolved" current language carried by the subsequent generations as in other regions; I know evolved forms can prove 1- a constant presence in place - 2- a recent intorduction: this last case is very rare today, at expansion times it could have been more common. Etc... and so on... I know it is not easy to make certain.

One signature feature of the Balto-Slavic languages is the merger of PIE *o > *a (something they actually share with the Germanic languages). Proto-Slavic, at a later point, shifted short *a (but not lot long *ā) to *o. The relative chronological order of these sound changes is important, but its clear that toponyms from the Balkans and the Pannonian basin cannot be Balto-Slavic if they include /o/. Modern Slavic languages obviously have an /o/ sound in it, but as I also mentioned earlier in this thread that the sound change *a > *o in Slavic can have occured only during the Migration period, not possibly earlier. Both Latin loanwords in Slavic, and place names on the Balkans that date from the Roman period are subject to these changes.

For example, Milan mentioned "Sorviodurum" (now Straubing in Bavaria). The name must be Celtic (the suffix "-durum" is typical of Celtic place names, for example "Boiodurum", Passau and "Brivodurum", Briare), in particular because there's also a very similar town name from Roman Britain, "Sorbiodunum" (Old Salisbury).

In my opinion names from the Roman period (or earlier names recorded by the Greeks) - wether they are Satem or not - cannot have been Balto-Slavic if they included an /o/ in it. I do not contest that there were Satem languages on the ancient Balkans (Dacian and Thracian certainly were), but in my opinion these were not closer related with Balto-Slavic.

If you ignore the internal evolution of the Balto-Slavic languages, all you're doing is using cherry-picked named that "look" vaguely Slavic (the "Sorvio-" in Sorviodurum" is a good example, because of the similarity with the modern ethnic name "Sorbians"), and put a "Slavic" or "Balto-Slavic" label to them.

 

[Taranis]

Ancient tribes,place names,with some exonyms.

The Roxolani according to some the name come ( from Alanic ruxsalan- "bright alan") were a Sarmatian people, who are believed to be an offshoot of the Alans, although according to Strabo they were the most remote of Scythian peoples.However in some South Slavic languages Rus mean blonde.

'Bright alans' is not only according to some, it is actually the generally accepted etymology: in Hindi "rausan", and in Persian "roushan", respectively, mean 'bright'. Here, the /o/ in the name "Roxolani" actually represented an earlier Indo-Iranic *au.

 

[Милан М.]

One signature feature of the Balto-Slavic languages is the merger of PIE *o > *a (something they actually share with the Germanic languages). Proto-Slavic, at a later point, shifted short *a (but not lot long *ā) to *o. The relative chronological order of these sound changes is important, but its clear that toponyms from the Balkans and the Pannonian basin cannot be Balto-Slavic if they include /o/. Modern Slavic languages obviously have an /o/ sound in it, but as I also mentioned earlier in this thread that the sound change *a > *o in Slavic can have occured only during the Migration period, not possibly earlier. Both Latin loanwords in Slavic, and place names on the Balkans that date from the Roman period are subject to these changes.

For example, Milan mentioned "Sorviodurum" (now Straubing in Bavaria). The name must be Celtic (the suffix "-durum" is typical of Celtic place names, for example "Boiodurum", Passau and "Brivodurum", Briare), in particular because there's also a very similar town name from Roman Britain, "Sorbiodunum" (Old Salisbury).

In my opinion names from the Roman period (or earlier names recorded by the Greeks) - wether they are Satem or not - cannot have been Balto-Slavic if they included an /o/ in it. I do not contest that there were Satem languages on the ancient Balkans (Dacian and Thracian certainly were), but in my opinion these were not closer related with Balto-Slavic.

If you ignore the internal evolution of the Balto-Slavic languages, all you're doing is using cherry-picked named that "look" vaguely Slavic (the "Sorvio-" in Sorviodurum" is a good example, because of the similarity with the modern ethnic name "Sorbians"), and put a "Slavic" or "Balto-Slavic" label to them.

In records from Bithynia in the year 680, the city of Gordoservon or Gordoserbon (Greek: Γορδόσερβον, Proto-Slavic: *Gordŭ Sĭrba, Serbian: Srbograd, Grad Srba, Гордосервон) was a Byzantine city inhabited by Serbs.
Around the year 1200 AD this city is mentioned as Servochoria (Greek: Σερβοχώρια, "Serbian habitations"). The city was situated where the Phrygian kingdom once had been.
Should we say that this city was Phyrgian cause contain the "Gord" if actually that meant fortress to them like to Slavic speaking people Grad-fortress,we know this from their prior Gordium,or Greek cause has the later "Choria" just interested? i don't claim that the name Serb was carried by Slavic speakers only if we can not confirm this,similar names or toponyms were widely distributed where IE people were,why you picked that toponym i haven't even look at them.

 

[Милан М.]

'Bright alans' is not only according to some, it is actually the generally accepted etymology: in Hindi "rausan", and in Persian "roushan", respectively, mean 'bright'. Here, the /o/ in the name "Roxolani" actually represented an earlier Indo-Iranic *au.

In Bulgaro-Macedonian the word "Rus" exist with meaning of blonde,rausan-bright and rus-blonde the name could come or formed in same manner?was just giving an explanation and i guess the word "rus" exist only in Bulgaro-Macedonian from Slavic languages,could be "archaism",should also mention some toponyms in Macedonia Rosoman and Ros,which some believe to be from this Roxolani.

 

[Милан М.]

Lyginus river,battle of Lyginus 335 B.C between the Triballians and Alexander the Great.

Lyginus-from "Liga" Lyga meaning "slimy" slippery,muddy present day name Rositsa name from Rosa "dew" especialy in the morning,which is pretty much connected with wetness,nowadays the word "Lyga" is used to describe slimy species such are the slug,it is used to describe wetness,slippery,mud.
Compare "Ljig river " in Serbia with same meaning.

The river Rositsa (Lyginus)