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Thread: what is the heritage of Napoleon?

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    what is the heritage of Napoleon?



    Today reannactors are playing the battle of Waterloo - which happened exactly 200 years ago - in front of an audiance of 200.000 people.
    In that battle, which prevended the comeback of Napoleon, 47000 soldiers lost their life.
    I'm not an expert on Napoleon, all I know is from hearsay.
    But since a few weeks I've been hearing more and more dissonants.
    I suppose what I had heard before was the French historical version.
    Belgium wanted to issue a 2 € coin comemorating the battle of Waterloo.
    But that was vetoed by the French for whom it seems this is still a painfull memory.
    The Belgians were 'creative' again and issued a 2,50 € coin which is not valid as a means of payment but which is a very wanted item.
    Anyway, it is since that veto, I heared some alternative voices.
    Officially, Napoleon saved the French Revolution. I guess that's correct, as the word 'revolution' was becoming sinonymous to 'guillotine' or 'public execution'.
    Further, Napoleon appointed himself as emperor. He did so as 'representative of the people' as opposed to the European monarchs who would - according to Napoleon - still would defend their title and status as 'divine'.
    Therefore Napoleon was the one who brought democracy and freedom to Europe.
    That was an explanation which was allready more difficult for me to grasp.
    Another big accomplishment was the introduction of the 'code Napoleon', a code which Napoleon imposed on all territories he conquered.
    I guess this was a code which allready existed in France, just like other law codes existed in other Eruopean countries.
    I don't know whether the code Napoleon was any better than the codes which were allready in place before.
    This code would have standardised the continental European law system.
    Well, a Belgian lawyer can represent me before the Belgian court, but in Germany I would seek a German lawyer and in France a French lawyer.
    3.250.000 Europeans would have died during the Napoleonitic wars.
    Many Belgians have starved from hunger and cold in Russia because they were forced to join Napoleons army.
    That is true, Napoleon was 'actively recruiting' in Belgium and all young men had to hide themselves.
    There is even some new reason for 'Belgian pride' lately as many Belgians would have fought with the Allies at Waterloo, and Wellington would have given the command for the final and fatal attack after a regiment of mainly Belgians and Dutchmen would have attacked and dispersed the Imperial Guard, something that had never happened before.
    Anyway, the official version is that the final attack followed a retreat of the Imperial Guard after it had been badly hit by British fire.

    I'm sure Napoleon changed Europe's history.
    But what now is the real heritage of Napoleon?

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    0 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Today reannactors are playing the battle of Waterloo - which happened exactly 200 years ago - in front of an audiance of 200.000 people.
    In that battle, which prevended the comeback of Napoleon, 47000 soldiers lost their life.
    I'm not an expert on Napoleon, all I know is from hearsay.
    But since a few weeks I've been hearing more and more dissonants.
    I suppose what I had heard before was the French historical version.
    Belgium wanted to issue a 2 € coin comemorating the battle of Waterloo.
    But that was vetoed by the French for whom it seems this is still a painfull memory.
    The Belgians were 'creative' again and issued a 2,50 € coin which is not valid as a means of payment but which is a very wanted item.
    Anyway, it is since that veto, I heared some alternative voices.
    Officially, Napoleon saved the French Revolution. I guess that's correct, as the word 'revolution' was becoming sinonymous to 'guillotine' or 'public execution'.
    Further, Napoleon appointed himself as emperor. He did so as 'representative of the people' as opposed to the European monarchs who would - according to Napoleon - still would defend their title and status as 'divine'.
    Therefore Napoleon was the one who brought democracy and freedom to Europe.
    That was an explanation which was allready more difficult for me to grasp.
    Another big accomplishment was the introduction of the 'code Napoleon', a code which Napoleon imposed on all territories he conquered.
    I guess this was a code which allready existed in France, just like other law codes existed in other Eruopean countries.
    I don't know whether the code Napoleon was any better than the codes which were allready in place before.
    This code would have standardised the continental European law system.
    Well, a Belgian lawyer can represent me before the Belgian court, but in Germany I would seek a German lawyer and in France a French lawyer.
    3.250.000 Europeans would have died during the Napoleonitic wars.
    Many Belgians have starved from hunger and cold in Russia because they were forced to join Napoleons army.
    That is true, Napoleon was 'actively recruiting' in Belgium and all young men had to hide themselves.
    There is even some new reason for 'Belgian pride' lately as many Belgians would have fought with the Allies at Waterloo, and Wellington would have given the command for the final and fatal attack after a regiment of mainly Belgians and Dutchmen would have attacked and dispersed the Imperial Guard, something that had never happened before.
    Anyway, the official version is that the final attack followed a retreat of the Imperial Guard after it had been badly hit by British fire.

    I'm sure Napoleon changed Europe's history.
    But what now is the real heritage of Napoleon?
    This lunatic, a destroyer of Europe has the same marker as Hitler IIRC
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    The arrival of Blucher's Prussians was crucial to Napoleon's defeat.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    This lunatic, a destroyer of Europe has the same marker as Hitler IIRC
    This is totally wrong and immoral. I hope you will apologize to all people with haplogroup E.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    But what now is the real heritage of Napoleon?
    War movies and books.

    I don't think he changed much. More like a cult of strong leader and brilliant tactician. For 100 years after him Europe was still ruled by handful tyrannic Empires.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    War movies and books.

    I don't think he changed much. More like a cult of strong leader and brilliant tactician. For 100 years after him Europe was still ruled by handful tyrannic Empires.
    He got rid of them for a while but they came roaring back. His fault, in my opinion; he could have consolidated his gains if he wasn't such a megalomaniac.

    He had other accomplishments, however.

    I just took a look at the Wiki article and it's surprisingly detailed and balanced in its presentation. The relevant parts are sections 8 and 9. When reading about him or any historical figure or era I always try to keep in mind that even historians are going to approach the material with a bit of an agenda. The English scholars are going to look at him slightly differently than the French ones, or the apologists for all the doddering and oppressive ancien regimes that he toppled, for that matter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon#Reforms


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    He got rid of them for a while but they came roaring back. His fault, in my opinion; he could have consolidated his gains if he wasn't such a megalomaniac.
    Yes, he became one of them eventually. For that reason I don't think he shared or understood ideas behind the French revolution, liberty and equality for common people, or democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Yes, he became one of them eventually. For that reason I don't think he shared or understood ideas behind the French revolution, liberty and equality for common people, or democracy.
    The French revolution, liberté, égalité and fraternité was a myth.
    It ended in terror and abuse of power with guilotine and public executions.
    Napoleon cleaned that mess, but because of his megalomania, Napoleon was far worse for Europe than any European monarch.

    The end of the dark ages in Europe was around 1500 AD.
    There was a new spirit. Science and freedom of mind was promoted.
    It was a process with trial and error, not a straight line.
    Modern Europe did not come with some sudden revolution.



    When I think of it, I know very little revolutions that were a succes.
    Most of them end in a mess.
    Look at 'Arabian spring' recently.

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    His ideals as in the Napoleonic Code were not bad and pretty much similar to what we have today with the difference that in the 1800's the socio economical and political situation and general psyche of Europe was totally different and much less acceptant then it is today for similar ideologies . It can neither be totally be credited to him as some states were already practicing a degree of this code, but defiantly not a pan European Ideal. Some of this code is copied from Roman law. However the way he went about to achieve these ideals was horrendous and arrogant. Change comes slow, he was too rushed and emotional intelligence was non existant which at the end spells doom to failure.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Napoleon led to the infamous
    Congress of Vienna ( 1815-1820 ) - where many europes people where enslaved under different monachies instead of retaining their freedom.
    with this
    came the 1840 to 1875 revolutions in many parts of europe to freedom themselves from the results of the congress of Vienna.
    and also
    came no republics after the congress of Vienna..............one had to have a monarch to have a nation, so Belgium was formed, Greece went to a Bavarian nobleman to become the Greek King and so Greece can then form a nation .................Italy had to go to the french house of Savoy to become king of Italy so they can form a nation and many more like this.

    finally these monarchies ended up fighting each other in WW1

    That is what Napoleon started.

    He was a republican who got rid of the French King to become an Emperor .........King, Emperor basically the same thing. No integrity, no honesty, who can ever support such a man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    This is totally wrong and immoral. I hope you will apologize to all people with haplogroup E.
    This is you assuming again.

    You do realise your assumptions are always wrong or is this one of your vendetta issues with my recent replies to one of your posts?
    or
    Is this another bait to insult me again as you have done recently on another post?

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    Some of you are in negative territory. Do you have any self-awareness whatsoever? Are you unaware of what that means?

    Have you any concept of objective scholarship? Must everything devolve into petty tribal grievances?

    Honestly, I despair of some of you.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    This is totally wrong and immoral. I hope you will apologize to all people with haplogroup E.
    No it's not. That's for Hitler and Naploeon to apologize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    No it's not. That's for Hitler and Naploeon to apologize.
    Do you believe that there is something wrong hg E, and it tends to bring bad in people?
    Because this is what Sile is insinuating by this:

    This lunatic, a destroyer of Europe has the same marker as Hitler IIRC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    This lunatic, a destroyer of Europe has the same marker as Hitler IIRC
    we already had these silly comments before. Originally Posted by SileHitler and the other lunatic, Napoleon Bonaparte belong to the same tree................both mad, destroyers of Europe, schitzo mentality ......brains the size of peanuts (2014)



    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...plogroup-E1b1b

    Anything new? Stop fighting with windmills Sile, and your illusions with fictional tribal warfare.
    Last edited by Maleth; 23-06-15 at 02:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    No it's not. That's for Hitler and Naploeon to apologize.
    ....and does your history knowledge start and stop with Hitler and Napoleon? I really had the impression you were smarter then that.....guess how many more people need to raise from the dead and appologise to humanity?.......if you need help let me know....

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    Napoleon I chose the bee so as to link the new imperial Bonaparte dynasty to the very origins of France. Golden bees were discovered in 1653 in the tomb of Childrec I, founder in 457 of the Merovingian dynasty.
    Bees covered the surfaced of the imperial cloaks of Emperor Napoleon I and Empress Josephine at their coronation ceremony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LouisPhilippe View Post
    Napoleon I chose the bee so as to link the new imperial Bonaparte dynasty to the very origins of France. Golden bees were discovered in 1653 in the tomb of Childrec I, founder in 457 of the Merovingian dynasty.
    Bees covered the surfaced of the imperial cloaks of Emperor Napoleon I and Empress Josephine at their coronation ceremony.
    Stop the spamming of useless posts, or you'll be banned. Am I clear?

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