What is the main haplogroup of Cucuteni-Trypillian (Tripolye) culture?

Pick main hg of Cucuteni.

  • E1b1b

    Votes: 5 7.1%
  • G2a

    Votes: 27 38.6%
  • I1

    Votes: 5 7.1%
  • I2

    Votes: 38 54.3%
  • J1

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • J2

    Votes: 6 8.6%
  • N1c

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Q

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • R1a

    Votes: 6 8.6%
  • R1b

    Votes: 6 8.6%
  • T

    Votes: 2 2.9%

  • Total voters
    70
I wasn't referring to Chalcolithic Bulgaria. Those samples are too old (c. 4500 BCE for the R1b and c. 4350 BCE for the CT) to have anything to do with Steppe invasions. That R1b is an old Mesolithic L754 (two mutations prior to P297 and three before M269) related to Iron Gates or Dnieper Donets, not to Yamna.
Perhaps I misunderstood this?

" so that Steppe lineages would principally show up in elite burials like in Varna. "

As I said, the elite burial in Varna has nothing to do with Steppe,
 
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Just for general information...

I haven't checked this out for myself yet. It's from GD at anthrogenica:

"Khvalynsk rather dates to 4300-3800 BC, which is the steppe Eneolithic, whilst Varna I dates to 4700 - 4500 BC. (PALEOECOLOGY, SUBSISTENCE, AND 14C CHRONOLOGY OF THE EURASIAN CASPIAN STEPPE BRONZE AGE. N I Shishlina). The reference given in the Supp Data are too broad and too old because they have not corrected for the reservoir effect as Shishilina does, and as HIgham et al did for Varna."

Ed. The context was that perhaps "steppe" appears in Varna before it appears in Khvalynsk.
 
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We need more of standardize measure units in population genetics, less relativity. Great for people who don't have time to reread and relearn, like me.

You are right, I understand your point. But we have to understand the scientists it's not like they want to change but they have to because with new samples they have better understanding of the bigger picture.
 
Gentlemen, take a look at Supp. Table 2. I discuss it below, but you should take a look yourselves;
it's short, and shows their conclusions based on formal stats.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...pe-Mathiesen-et-al/page10?p=508673#post508673


There is something telling me, "maybe there is a reason why ftDNA labeled a clearly CHG type component as Iron Age Invaders".

Maybe/likely there is a reason why the scientists collectively start to call Yamnaya Late PIE. So we who were theorizing the Steppes as secondary homeland to Indo Europeans could be correct afterall.
 
Just for general information...

I haven't checked this out for myself yet. It's from GD at anthrogenica:

"Khvalynsk rather dates to 4300-3800 BC, which is the steppe Eneolithic, whilst Varna I dates to 4700 - 4500 BC. (PALEOECOLOGY, SUBSISTENCE, AND 14C CHRONOLOGY OF THE EURASIAN CASPIAN STEPPE BRONZE AGE. N I Shishlina). The reference given in the Supp Data are too broad and too old because they have not corrected for the reservoir effect as Shishilina does, and as HIgham et al did for Varna."

Ed. The context was that perhaps "steppe" appears in Varna before it appears in Khvalynsk.

sooooo maybe. CHG to Balkan => mixing with the local H&G who seem to have allot of R1a/R1b lineages=> new local Balkan H&G/CHG and Anatolian_Neo admixed population => to the Steppes, with founder effect where only few lineages reach the region?

Thats also a interesting theory.
 
sooooo maybe. CHG to Balkan => mixing with the local H&G who seem to have allot of R1a/R1b lineages=> new local Balkan H&G/CHG and Anatolian_Neo admixed population => to the Steppes, with founder effect where only few lineages reach the region?

Thats also a interesting theory.

I wondered about that too, but I thought maybe it was too far-fetched. :) We don't have that many samples yet after all. Although, who knows, we're getting nothing but surprises lately. :)
 
But what was the main mtDNA haplogroup?

"Haplogroup R0 has been found in around 55% of osteological remains belonging to the Eneolithic Trypillia culture."
 
i red somewhere CTC at the anthropological types level shew an introgression of robust "neolithic" (so little!) Ukrainian females of neighbouring cultures; here again a genders unbalanced mixture! (maybe the opposite unbalanced mixture for LN cultures of N-E Hungary and S Poland???)
 
this :

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-1044480/v1

Genomes From Verteba Cave Suggest Diversity Within The Trypillians In Ukraine

Pere Gelabert, Ryan W. Schmidt, Daniel M. Fernandes, Jordan K. Karsten, Thomas K. Harper, Gwyn D. Madden, Sarah H. Ledogar, Mykhailo Sokhatsky, Hiroki Oota, Douglas j. Kennett, Ron Pinhasi

The transition to agriculture occurred relatively late in Eastern Europe, leading researchers to debate whether it was a gradual, interactive process or a colonization event. In the forest and forest-steppe regions of Ukraine, farming appeared during the fifth millennium BCE, associated with the Cucuteni-Trypillian Archaeological Complex (CTCC, 4800-3000 BCE). Across Europe, the Neolithization process was highly variable across space and over time. Here, we investigate the population dynamics of early agriculturalists from the eastern forest-steppe region based on analyses of 20 ancient genomes from the Verteba Cave site (3789-980 BCE). The results reveal that the CTCC individuals’ ancestry is related to both western hunter gatherers and Near Eastern farmers, lacks local ancestry associated with Ukrainian Neolithic hunter gatherers and has steppe ancestry. An Early Bronze Age individual has an ancestry profile related to the Yamnaya expansions but with 20% ancestry related to the other Trypillian individuals, which suggests admixture between the Trypillians and the incoming populations carrying steppe-related ancestry. A Late Bronze Age individual dated to 980-948 BCE has a genetic profile indicating affinity to Beaker-related populations, detected close to 1,000 years after the end of the Bell Beaker phenomenon during the Third millennium BCE.


ea953c00cb1cd72fcd2b346c.jpg



Sample14C (cal BP)mt HaploY Haplogroupcoverage
VERT1131849-1774 cal BCE, 95.4%, 2 sigmaHV+16311Female1.08X
VERT107ND T2c1d1 G2a2b2a31.28X
VERT105ND H+152 G2a2b2a30.8126X
VERT1043716-3650 cal BCE, 95.4%, 2 sigma U5a2+16362 G2a2a12.185X
VERT103ND J1c5 C1a0.7X
VERT1003769-3645 cal BCE, 95.4%, 2 sigma J1c2 G2a2a1a1.7X
VERT0153706-3659 cal BCE, 95.4%, 2 sigma H FEMALE1.8112X
VERT008ND T2b+16362 FEMALE1.19X
VERT028ND K1a1b1 I2a2a11.13X
VERT029ND H15a1 G2a2a1a1.42X
VERT030ND T2b G2a2b2a3 1.32X
VERT0313719-3653 cal BCE, 95.4%, 2 sigma N1a1a1a G2a2a1a3~1.03X
VERT033ND H40 I2a1a2a 0.63X
VERT0353684-3663 cal BCE, 95.4%, 2 sigma J1c2 FEMALE0.86X
VERT111ND K1b1+(16093) FEMALE0.47X
VERT114980-948 cal BCE, 95.4%, 2 sigma T2 FEMALE0.24X
VERT115ND T2 FEMALE0.29X
VERT117ND K1a2 I2c 0.41X
VERT118ND K1a2 FEMALE0.52X
VERT1063684-3663 cal BCE,95.4%, 2 sigma U5a -0.24X


p.s
no E1B1B1 this time
:unsure:
 
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no E1B1B1 this time

I guess that in the neighbouring Northern Pannonian and Carpathian sphere was a higher E1b1b concentration and just single individuals being probably pulled into Trypillia earlier, whereas as most resided further to the West.
 
I guess that in the neighbouring Northern Pannonian and Carpathian sphere was a higher E1b1b concentration and just single individuals being probably pulled into Trypillia earlier, whereas as most resided further to the West.

This is to be expected from the E-V13 tree split(earliest branches are from Germany and Scotland). Then the highest incidence of E-M78/E-L618 from Neolithic Europe is actually from Western European Neolithic.
 
This is to be expected from the E-V13 tree split(earliest branches are from Germany and Scotland). Then the highest incidence of E-M78/E-L618 from Neolithic Europe is actually from Western European Neolithic.

Well, there are two Lengyel/Sopot related E1b1b and I expect more along the Danube/Tisza early on. There are new samples from MN France and they are I2 too. Imho the few German-French Michelsberg-related E samples might be from Lengyel colonisations along the Danube. I wrote about that issue already.

The most likely carrier to the West was the M?nchsh?fener Kultur:
Die M?nchsh?fener Kultur ist eine jungneolithische Kultur mit dem Kerngebiet im Donauraum Bayerns, die etwa um 4500 v. Chr. begann und um 3900/3800 v. Chr. endete. Sie ist ein Ausl?ufer der Lengyelkultur, deren Kerngebiet im ?stlichen Mitteleuropa liegt. Die Kultur wird in eine ?fr?he?, eine ?klassische? und ab 4250 v. Chr. in eine ?sp?te? Phase gegliedert.[1] Wegen der zun?chst nur regional bekannten Funde wurde die Sp?tphase zeitweilig als ?Facies Wallerfing? bezeichnet

Erdwerke der M?nchsh?fener Kultur weisen in Form und Gr??e eine Verwandtschaft zu ebensolchen Anlagen der Michelsberger Kultur auf.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münchshöfener_Kultur

Imho there was a forth and back migration between Lengyel and Michelsberger, with the former being the source for the observable E1b1b spread along the Danube and Rhine.
 
When this thread was started in 2015, I wrote that the most likely haplogroups of the Cucuteni-Trypillian cultures were G2a and I2a. It's now confirmed.
 
When this thread was started in 2015, I wrote that the most likely haplogroups of the Cucuteni-Trypillian cultures were G2a and I2a. It's now confirmed.

Maciamo, what about E-L618/E-V13. This is what you wrote:

The only thing that changed in my views is that I now believe that E-M78, and more specifically E-V13, arrived in Mediterranean Europe in the late glacial period or during the Mesolithic, crossing directly from North Africa. That implies that E-M78 was found in Neolithic Europe, but as assimilated hunter-gatherers like haplogroups C1a2, F and I. The reason that E1b1b was only found in Neolithic Spain so far is that it was really confined to Mediterranean Europe at least until the Bell Beaker expansion from Iberia to western Europe. E-V13 would have expanded from Italy and Greece to the Balkans only during the Copper or Early Bronze Age, perhaps after a few lineages were assimilated by the Indo-European invaders. Therefore I doubt that E-V13 was already present in Romania, Moldova and Ukraine during the Neolithic period.

I was also thinking about this scenario, could E-L618 be actually a Late Mesolithic Y-DNA and was assimilated and incorporated by incoming Cardial-Ware farmes somewhere in Adriatic?
 

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