Northern-Centrism: Just Stop It!!

On LBKT_EN .............the many samples are all found in Central upper Germany ( Saxony ), the are 100% EEF ( as per the graph ), yet the theory that others bring to other sites on the internet is that they did not come from Anatolia as per what Haak states, but came via the steppe .............this is why they are noted as northern european.
I follow that they came via Anatolia

Do you have an example of that? Link, quote?
 
On LBKT_EN .............the many samples are all found in Central upper Germany ( Saxony ), the are 100% EEF ( as per the graph ), yet the theory that others bring to other sites on the internet is that they did not come from Anatolia as per what Haak states, but came via the steppe .............this is why they are noted as northern european.
I follow that they came via Anatolia

I'm afraid you are confused. No one thinks that the LBK farmers came from the steppe. They came from the Near East.
 
I'm afraid you are confused. No one thinks that the LBK farmers came from the steppe. They came from the Near East.

I am not confused as per what I said in the last sentence. The confusion is made by these people who want to ensure that central Germany and all of its ancient findings remain northern-european.
You do realise how far north these ancient samples where, don't you ! ...........you do realise what that means to northern European theory, don't you!
 
I already said that I won't let this thread degenerate into a place to trash genome bloggers or posters on other websites. If you disagree with someone's opinion on a certain topic, find the relevant thread, and demonstrate how it is wrong.

People have their biases. The question is whether or not they have let their biases distort their analyses of data. Every person has to make up his or her own mind about the intellectual honesty or lack of it of other people.
 
Do I have observable bias favoring a race, ethnicity, culture, religion or phenotype?
 
Do I have observable bias favoring a race, ethnicity, culture, religion or phenotype?

Absolutely not! You are a paragon of objectivity and good sense. The only bias I can see is a bias toward reason and science which is the right bias to have...

We're lucky to have you, as I've told you before.
 
Do I have observable bias favoring a race, ethnicity, culture, religion or phenotype?


You have an observable bias favoring political correctness. That is a tunnel vision just as any bias. Most of us are aware of our biases. I'm not sure if you are, though.
 
You have an observable bias favoring political correctness. That is a tunnel vision just as any bias. Most of us are aware of our biases. I'm not sure if you are, though.
So I guess your answer to my question is "No".
 
Absolutely not! You are a paragon of objectivity and good sense. The only bias I can see is a bias toward reason and science which is the right bias to have...

We're lucky to have you, as I've told you before.
Thanks Angela. You said too much, I'm blushing. ;)

To be honest I'm catching myself often being somewhat biased, and have to fight the "demon". Though from being a child, I was always more curious than scared about different people and their cultures. What I mean is that it comes naturally easy to me.
 
But farmers are superior. :wink:

To be serious for a minute, I've never thought of it as superior/inferior. Plus, we're all descended 100% from hunter-gatherers, and unless you're a pygmy or an Amazon Indian you're descended from farmers too.

However, I'm definitely for any line of cultural development that leads to flush toilets, hot showers, lots of diverse, delicious foods, and a stable home site so that women, including me, don't have to go traipsing around for weeks at a time pregnant and dragging a line of children along behind them. :) Oh, you could add any number of other things to it like silk blouses and high heels, make-up, my washing machine, my tv and computer, i-phone and on and on.

Does this constitute a bias?

Maybe you guys are just fantasizing about being on a Scouting trip forever. One of the major problems with this whole hobby is that there aren't enough women in it. :grin:
 
You have an observable bias favoring political correctness. That is a tunnel vision just as any bias. Most of us are aware of our biases. I'm not sure if you are, though.

I'm sorry, Lebrok, but I have the same impression
Just want you to be aware of that
 
To be serious for a minute, I've never thought of it as superior/inferior. Plus, we're all descended 100% from hunter-gatherers, and unless you're a pygmy or an Amazon Indian you're descended from farmers too.

However, I'm definitely for any line of cultural development that leads to flush toilets, hot showers, lots of diverse, delicious foods, and a stable home site so that women, including me, don't have to go traipsing around for weeks at a time pregnant and dragging a line of children along behind them. :) Oh, you could add any number of other things to it like silk blouses and high heels, make-up, my washing machine, my tv and computer, i-phone and on and on.

Does this constitute a bias?

Maybe you guys are just fantasizing about being on a Scouting trip forever. One of the major problems with this whole hobby is that there aren't enough women in it. :grin:

we all like to go on a hunting trip
but we're allways happy to return to the cave where the women are
 
I'm sorry, Lebrok, but I have the same impression
Just want you to be aware of that
Why are you sorry for that I feel empathy for all humanity? Again, sounds like a positive answer to my question, isn't it?
 
To be serious for a minute, I've never thought of it as superior/inferior. Plus, we're all descended 100% from hunter-gatherers, and unless you're a pygmy or an Amazon Indian you're descended from farmers too.

I agree. We all descend from hunter-gatherers who become farmers at one point several millennia ago, and who later adopted bronze, then iron tools and weapons. All Europeans ultimately have most of their ancestry hailing from the Middle East at various points in history.

Instead of categorising people by nationality, ethnicity, language group or even haplogroups, it may be more useful to look deeper into the genes that each individual inherited. It can vary tremendously even within a same family. Obviously we cannot have inherited genes from all our genealogical ancestors. The gene set we inherit from any given ancestor is sliced in half at each subsequent generation, and as DNA is inherited in long chromosomal segments, the DNA of some ancestors is completely lost after less than ten generations - let alone the hundreds of generations that separate us from out Neolithic or Mesolithic ancestors.

What ultimately matters and differentiate all of us (even between siblings) is which variant of each gene we inherited. For example, all of us descend from farmers, and indeed Near Eastern Neolithic farmers are the single largest genetic contributor to the European gene pool. Natural selection favoured genes that prevented the development of diabetes and of gluten intolerance among cereal farmers, and genes for digesting lactose among dairy farmers. But even if we descend from a long line of both dairy and cereal farmers going back at least 6000 years on every side of our family tree, it does not guarantee that we inherited genes for digesting lactose or gluten. Natural selection is slow, and particularly so when the advantage of one gene variant over another is small, or when a same variant carries both advantages and disadvantages. In the particular case of gluten intolerance, the relevant gene is HLA-DQ. People who inherited the HLA-DQ2 and/or HLA-DQ8 variants are more likely to become gluten intolerant sometime during their lifetime. But most carriers do not become intolerant. It's not a clear cut black or white situation. It depends on environmental factors and possibly of the relation with other genes in one's genome. Additionally, HLA-DQ2 and DQ8 may confer stronger resistance to some diseases, which may explain why they were positively selected in some populations (e.g. over 80% of Native South Americans have HLA-DQ8, and 60% of Sardinians have HLA-DQ2 despite having the highest percentage of Neolithic farmer ancestry in Europe).

Very often each gene variant has adaptive pros and cons that will depend on the local environment and circumstances (such as one's culture) in which an individual grows up. Very few polymorphisms are always good or always bad, otherwise the bad allele would quickly disappear from the gene pool.

Keeping all this in mind, we should cherish genetic diversity rather than hope for some kind of genetic homogeneity.
 
I have nothing against farming per se :)
One of Latvian self identifications is nation of ploughmen. Arāju tauta. Despite being mostly WHG genetically (Altentoft gave what 0.x% of ENF to us?).

But, when it goes like - only farmers are capable of this or that innovation or passing language.. Nah.. Especially when farmer is treated as genes not as profession, then it feels like "only Whites are capable of.." statements.
 
I have nothing against farming per se :)
One of Latvian self identifications is nation of ploughmen. Arāju tauta. Despite being mostly WHG genetically (Altentoft gave what 0.x% of ENF to us?).

But, when it goes like - only farmers are capable of this or that innovation or passing language.. Nah.. Especially when farmer is treated as genes not as profession, then it feels like "only Whites are capable of.." statements.

A question to be asked is - who likely would be potters ( pot makers ), Farmers or Hunters !........
Since we know the LBK_EN farmers have 100% EEF and aged between 5200BC to 5600BC and are in Central germany and none are ,( so far ) from the R1a or R1b family, then who created the "first pots" in this area?
Clearly a farmer has more use for a pot than a hunter ..................my views
 
Baltics was the only region in Europe where pots arrived without agriculture.

Also
Pottery originated before the Neolithic period, with ceramic objects like the Gravettian culture Venus of Dolní Věstonice figurine discovered in the Czech Republic date back to 29,000–25,000 BC,[7] and pottery vessels that were discovered in Jiangxi, China, which date back to 20,000 BC.[8]

Early Neolithic pottery have been found in places such as Jomon Japan (10,500 BC),[9] the Russian Far East (14,000 BC),[10] Sub-Saharan Africa and South America.
 

This thread has been viewed 63349 times.

Back
Top