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View Poll Results: Greeks monetary future:

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  • Greeks will stay in Eurozone

    12 48.00%
  • Greek will go back to Drachma

    13 52.00%
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Thread: Future of Greece

  1. #326
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    Yes you can read my very first post where I said I am a proud citizen of Mexico but with Albanian roots. Why is so hard to accept this. One of my parents is Albo. Otherwise I would not be involved in discussions about the region
    Thank you for clarifying.


    Some years ago, I participated in this very forum and I had a very rispid discussion with some Spaniards. When I entered and saw the flag, I was afraid that after that many years, they would continue attacking Mexico and Mexicans here, as they usually do.


    We Mexicans had some immigration - or people in transit - from former Yugoslavia after the unfortunate wars in the 90s. Croats, Serbs, Bosnians, Albanians... almost all good people, and with a lot of symphaty for Mexicans. In general we think about all of them, as nice persons. At the very least, with us.


    Having clarified your situation, I would not say anymore but this: Being that you remain in Mexico or you go elsewhere around this Continent, you will feel that some ethnic or other rivalries that seemed so important there, will dwindle and will seem unimportant with time.


    Nice day to all the forum-ers.

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Greece pays virtually no intrests. They have the highest debt rate of the whole EU, but pay less intrests than most EU countries.
    They get their money virtually for free. And when the new loan will - if ever - be paid back nobody knows.
    Debt relief is something that European taxpayers wouldn't accept.
    Debt relief is not the main issue either.
    The main issue is the reform of the Greek society and economy.
    I don't believe giving more money will help.
    I believe Grexit would have been the right shocktherapy. But politicians were not brave enough to let it happen.
    Maybe Grexit will come. IMO within 5 years there will be a new Greek crisis.

    Greece should never have been allowed to the Euro. They didn't meet the requierements. They falsified their accounts and EU politcians knew about that.
    They said 'politics should surpass economics in crucial moments'.
    Now they say that 'history has shown that after long discussions with all fractions the EU Parliament allways ends up making the right decision'.
    No journalist asked them why then Greece was allowed to the Euro in the first place.
    I'm so fed up with all these smooth talkers who are acting totally irresponsable.
    I do not deny what you say,

    but you give only the one side of the coin,
    as you say Greece Greece used goldman sachs, to falsify accounts, but Eu politicians knew it,
    BUT ACCEPTED !!! WHY?
    I think the same 'hate' against Greece must also be in the same Degree with the politicians who accept it,

    and the Eu tax payers are not paying Greece, but Goldman Sachs, But still you blame Greece,
    and can I accept that?
    But why you do not blame the politicians who knew and accept to pay Goldman Sachs?

    Guys isn't time for EU to learn the lesson against neo-liberians?

    THE EEC and EUrozone, had no mechanism to defend in such cases,
    after 2008 with Greece as victim they finally manage to ESM but still is not working with great efficiency, but is a substractum to discuss for future,

    the problem of EU states to borrow with different rates/interests from privateers or foreign Bankers, is almost solved,
    Afetr Greek crisis, all Money Vultures who wanted to enslave free world under the 'myth of free will world' of Milton Friedman they can not touch EU states.
    it is time to stop and erase Rothschild system, WHO FROM NAPOLEON WARS TILL TODAY THEY GET RICH BY KILLING AND ENSLAVE EUROPE

    so thanks to dirty/fallen/bad/ugly Greece EU has a mechanism of stability and secure, and is safe from FRIEDMAN's money vultures who want to enslave human beings with 'state loans'

    MAYBE THE POLITICIANS WHO ACCEPTED THE FALSIFIED GREEK ACCOUNTS, KNEW ABOUT THAT BUT LET IT HAPPEN IN ORDER TO "DEFEND/ARMOR'' EU in the future,


    until today, states borrowed from privateers with diferent rates,
    from this times,
    states can have same rate from ESM and ECB,
    is n't that something for EU? just ask



    But when comes to personal I feel much anger than you, and more hate against some kinds of my people,
    who accepted millions of Euro to make trash bargains, or to corrupt society,
    I feel anger for my politicians, some of them my choice, who still walk free with 'black' money in their pockets,
    a hate that lead many to Golden dawn or radical left.
    anyway soon you will learn why that happened,
    not far in time, it has to do with geopoliticks.
    my hate for the 100 000 Greeks who send their 128 000 000 000 E abroad to other Banks outside Greece with out pay the taxes, is bigger than your anger,
    now you see why Grexit is on discuss continuesly?
    search the gold prizes from 2004 till today, you understand more, about the other side of the coin.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #328
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    I told before, banks are guilty, EU politicians and Greek politics all are guilty
    but I don't believe in farfetched conspiracy theories

    and there allways should be some market mechanism at work
    countries - as well as banks and companies should balance their books if they don't want to get excluded from financial markets

  4. #329
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    what about this : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-...141355344.html

    was there realy some conspiracy plan to rob the Greek central bank and to force Grexit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    what about this : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-...141355344.html

    was there realy some conspiracy plan to rob the Greek central bank and to force Grexit?
    I already post it in #324,

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I already post it in #324,
    such desperate plans show how desperate the situation is

    none will help

    if Greece does not change, their economy will become like that of Roumenia or Bulgaria with a small surplus from tourism

    but the Greek people have been spoiled by the money spent and the promises made by Greek politicians into a lifestyle they can't afford
    and when they've spent all that money and there is none left they blaim capitalism and Germany

  7. #332
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    Perhaps we should have "governments for hire", professionals who knows how economy works and other aspects of well run country? Maybe Greece should accept (elect) German, Swiss or Singaporeans to run Greece for a decade or two? Without good economy Greeks are doomed. Somebody needs to restart the economic engine.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  8. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    European Union is the best expression of aspirations of European nations.

    I think in the future EU will further strengthen, not only in terms of expansion, but primary institutional.
    Very questionable assumption

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Very questionable assumption
    Agree with your post. In current form EU is showing tremendous weakness. If some other for of a union is not found EU will not be around for too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    such desperate plans show how desperate the situation is

    none will help

    if Greece does not change, their economy will become like that of Roumenia or Bulgaria with a small surplus from tourism

    but the Greek people have been spoiled by the money spent and the promises made by Greek politicians into a lifestyle they can't afford
    and when they've spent all that money and there is none left they blaim capitalism and Germany
    I agree with your comparison,
    but greece already send 300 000 working places to them, due to lower salaries,
    and the \tourist income is not even going to insurance deposits, due to black work (no stamps) cause in country with 2 000 000 unofficial immigrants and such numbers of none employd, black work is like a drink of water in desert,
    the thing is that money were not spoiled,
    they were stolen, and return back to central EU banks,
    128 billions went to central Europes banks as liguid currency,
    the new goverment promise a 3 year plan to tax these money, and punish the ones,
    but it is dificult, since even vice minister of economics has some troubles with judges and law due to this,
    although she resign that means nothing,
    such things happened in Greece in 1860's and 1904's
    so the ones who see behind can realize,

    i really can not say what is best now,
    keep rolling the problem to future until it is solved?
    or face it now with the disaster that can produce,

    Anyway, why you think Schauble offered so many millions to Greece?

  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Perhaps we should have "governments for hire", professionals who knows how economy works and other aspects of well run country? Maybe Greece should accept (elect) German, Swiss or Singaporeans to run Greece for a decade or two? Without good economy Greeks are doomed. Somebody needs to restart the economic engine.
    if you could look at me, I have a smile,
    maybe?
    but once you said that Greece from 1821 and after has how many bankrupts? remember?
    well did you notice the anomalies and the war in each one?

    if you did, then you know what is going on,

  12. #337
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Very questionable assumption
    For me it is the best option. Because small and unrelated European countries cannot be competitors giants on the world stage. But as Union it is almost different story. Today European Union has the highest GDP in the world, ahead of USA and China. More Union, including development of institutions at the level of the Union, produces better results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    For me it is the best option. Because small and unrelated European countries cannot be competitors giants on the world stage. But as Union it is almost different story. Today European Union has the highest GDP in the world, ahead of USA and China. More Union, including development of institutions at the level of the Union, produces better results.
    It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.
    Include Russia! Putin is too young. I don't think he ever leave the presidency. What about Turkey being within EU?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    Include Russia! Putin is too young. I don't think he ever leave the presidency. What about Turkey being within EU?
    For now both Russia and Turkey are going into dictatorship and human rights abuse mod, and as such won't be accepted into EU. They don't even want to be in EU at the moment, so it is no issue.
    I'm thinking 20-50 years ahead when both become more civilized, democratic and liberal.

  16. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.
    I hope so but I don't think so.
    I like the Russians, I don't like what happens in Russia.

    But for Europe, I certainly don't like what is happening in Turkey lately. It may become a bigger threat than Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.
    Yes, I'm sure EU will be more united and stronger and strengthening of institutions on the union and euro zone level is natural process.

    But I'm not sure for Russia. Yes, there was idea that will be union between Lisbon and Vladivostok. However, situation is different. Six million European Russians in next period will move to the Russian Far East. Russia turns to Asia and it can be ongoing process. China is faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Yes, I'm sure EU will be more united and stronger and strengthening of institutions on the union and euro zone level is natural process.

    But I'm not sure for Russia. Yes, there was idea that will be union between Lisbon and Vladivostok. However, situation is different. Six million European Russians in next period will move to the Russian Far East. Russia turns to Asia and it can be ongoing process. China is faster.
    In European Union Russia could be one of dominant powers. In Asia they will be dwarfed by China, and India soon, not an equal partner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    In European Union Russia could be one of dominant powers. In Asia they will be dwarfed by China, and India soon, not an equal partner.
    I'm not sure about that.
    Russian commodities could be very interesting for China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I'm not sure about that.
    Russian commodities could be very interesting for China.
    Yes but China always will get cheapest price, and treat Russia like a cheap supermarket. Russia will get better prices in EU and will be treated like an important member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    still hide behind Mexican flag?


    DO YOU NEED A MASK TO POST?
    Why you like to make it personal all the time?! Be focused on arguments. Maybe he is an Albanian living in Mexico, or a Mexican living in Albania .

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I do not deny what you say,

    but you give only the one side of the coin,
    as you say Greece Greece used goldman sachs, to falsify accounts, but Eu politicians knew it,
    BUT ACCEPTED !!! WHY?
    I think the same 'hate' against Greece must also be in the same Degree with the politicians who accept it,

    and the Eu tax payers are not paying Greece, but Goldman Sachs, But still you blame Greece,
    and can I accept that?
    But why you do not blame the politicians who knew and accept to pay Goldman Sachs?

    Guys isn't time for EU to learn the lesson against neo-liberians?

    THE EEC and EUrozone, had no mechanism to defend in such cases,
    after 2008 with Greece as victim they finally manage to ESM but still is not working with great efficiency, but is a substractum to discuss for future,

    the problem of EU states to borrow with different rates/interests from privateers or foreign Bankers, is almost solved,
    Afetr Greek crisis, all Money Vultures who wanted to enslave free world under the 'myth of free will world' of Milton Friedman they can not touch EU states.
    it is time to stop and erase Rothschild system, WHO FROM NAPOLEON WARS TILL TODAY THEY GET RICH BY KILLING AND ENSLAVE EUROPE

    so thanks to dirty/fallen/bad/ugly Greece EU has a mechanism of stability and secure, and is safe from FRIEDMAN's money vultures who want to enslave human beings with 'state loans'

    MAYBE THE POLITICIANS WHO ACCEPTED THE FALSIFIED GREEK ACCOUNTS, KNEW ABOUT THAT BUT LET IT HAPPEN IN ORDER TO "DEFEND/ARMOR'' EU in the future,


    until today, states borrowed from privateers with diferent rates,
    from this times,
    states can have same rate from ESM and ECB,
    is n't that something for EU? just ask



    But when comes to personal I feel much anger than you, and more hate against some kinds of my people,
    who accepted millions of Euro to make trash bargains, or to corrupt society,
    I feel anger for my politicians, some of them my choice, who still walk free with 'black' money in their pockets,
    a hate that lead many to Golden dawn or radical left.
    anyway soon you will learn why that happened,
    not far in time, it has to do with geopoliticks.
    my hate for the 100 000 Greeks who send their 128 000 000 000 E abroad to other Banks outside Greece with out pay the taxes, is bigger than your anger,
    now you see why Grexit is on discuss continuesly?
    search the gold prizes from 2004 till today, you understand more, about the other side of the coin.
    The situation there is simple. You can not spend, more than you earn by working. Neo liberalism of EU has nothing to do here. Don't blame the neo liberalism for the wrong economy guides of Greece.

  23. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Perhaps we should have "governments for hire", professionals who knows how economy works and other aspects of well run country? Maybe Greece should accept (elect) German, Swiss or Singaporeans to run Greece for a decade or two? Without good economy Greeks are doomed. Somebody needs to restart the economic engine.
    It will be too sad. It is the end or the death of democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    For now both Russia and Turkey are going into dictatorship and human rights abuse mod, and as such won't be accepted into EU. They don't even want to be in EU at the moment, so it is no issue.
    I'm thinking 20-50 years ahead when both become more civilized, democratic and liberal.
    Turkey last years is decreasing in democracy, for sure. Erdogan is copying Putin I think, maybe. But still is not in the same position with Russia. At least turkey is a NATO member, and also institutionally is more close to EU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Yes but China always will get cheapest price, and treat Russia like a cheap supermarket. Russia will get better prices in EU and will be treated like an important member.
    Russia will never join EU. Russia is more comfortable within a alliance with China. Russia has a lot of fuel for the Chinese engine economy. . They need each other. They could help each other on their economy.

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