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View Poll Results: Greeks monetary future:

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  • Greeks will stay in Eurozone

    12 48.00%
  • Greek will go back to Drachma

    13 52.00%
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Thread: Future of Greece

  1. #401
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    Yetos
    The second language in Greece is the Albanian. For how long it will last as it's gonna be the main language. Already in Peloponnesian is equally with the Greek language. Many Greek surnames are Albanian if you put away the "as" ending.
    hahahaha

    As long as it will take the Greek language to become First in Albania,
    remember that second language in Albania is Greek,

    and many Albanian names are Aromani or Greek

    are you afraid if Greek becomes first language in Albanian?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    1- don't put it in personal. 2- I think that Greeks are smart, no surprise on that. They are doing well. This taxes game is just a joke. There will be not this taxes system. It's just another Greek game. Bravo. 3- I asked young what is the pension in Greece, and you were afraid to answer me. When the Greeks go to take the pensions, in what age, 55?
    What, they didn't change it yet?!!! What happened to the reforms?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  3. #403
    Regular Member ΠΑΝΑΞ's Avatar
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    The future of Greece and its currency.
    The Greece and the monetary future ?or the future of currency in Greece?


    Greece has a long tradition - among others- of coinage, I think the most beautiful coins of antiquity is Greek, but will also dare not underestimate that of the modern national euro's, the Greek is the most beautiful, something that many may to admit, what we relate, -aesthetically moral issue- of the expulsion of Greek cutting euro's from the European market, the loss would negatively evolved to the detriment of the latter.
    Why; Because the Greeks know the "money" and "values" and the "beauty" -the most expensive of all.
    (not to dare to enter the incomparable "practical charm" of our beloved Drachma!)

    FFwd>> conclusion.
    The "Greek Beauty" the "Greek Values" and some ...change of coins we will save the Europe and the World from the numismatic decline and the ethical poverty for another time!


  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    hahahaha

    As long as it will take the Greek language to become First in Albania,
    Really? Maybe you will realize what great empires failed. The problem is that to realize a project among other things need money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    remember that second language in Albania is Greek,
    No it`s Italian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    and many Albanian names are Aromani or Greek

    are you afraid if Greek becomes first language in Albanian?
    hahahahah.

    P.S.
    Important is that in Greece after 200 years people speak greek. Because 200 years ago:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis
    Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: Ιωάννης Κωλέττης) (1773[citation needed] - 1847) was a Greek politician who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.
    In 1813, he settled at Ioannina, where he served as a doctor and after gaining standing he was recruited as the personal doctor of Ali Pasa's son, Muqtar Pasa. He remained in Ioannina till March 1821, when he entered Filiki Eteria and left for Syrrako, together with chieftain Raggos, in order to spread the revolution into Central Greece (Rumeli), but his efforts quickly failed because of the rapid reaction of the Ottoman army. Kolettis was the leader of the pro-French party and based his power on his relations with the leaders of Central Greece but also on his ability to eliminate his adversaries by acting behind the scenes.

    What he said nearly 200 years ago:

    www.freeinquiry.gr/pro.php?id=2172
    «Για ποιούς έλληνες συζητάμε κύριοι; Η Ελλάδα φοράει τσαρούχια βλάχικα και φέσια αρβανίτικα».

    "Gentlemen, what Hellenes are we talking about? All Hellas is wearing Vlach tsarouhia and Albanian fezzes."


    This raises a question: Since there were no Hellenes (Greeks), how did the revolution of 1821 prevail? It prevailed thanks to the British, who wanted a state of their own in the Mediterranean (and not to fall under Russian influence and control). They took advantage of the uprising of the albanians of Greece and helped them, seeing the collapse of the Ottoman Empire


    Edit
    So according to Wiki, Koletis was an Greek?

    Yep.

  5. #405
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    http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/...arvanites.html

    Report
    -
    THE ARVANITES
    General data on the language
    Arvanites are those whose mother tongue is Arvanitika (name in Greek - Αρβανίτες)/ Arberichte (name in their language); most linguists use the word Albanian for that language, but the community loathes its use, and it is therefore advisable that this sensitivity be taken into consideration unless researchers and/or human and minority rights activists do not mind alienating the very community they are studying. Likewise, they call themselves Arvanites (in Greek) and Arberor (in their language); but in Northwestern Greece, in their language, they use the term Shqiptar (the same used by Albanians of Albania), a term strongly disliked by the other Arvanites, who also resent being called Albanians.
    Nevertheless, Arvanitika belongs to the linguistic family of Albanian, and it has evolved from one of the two linguistic groups of Albanian, the South Albanian Tosk (the other is the North Albanian Gheg). Arvanitika has a dialectical richness: there are three different groups of dialects spoken, one in Thrace, one in Northwestern Greece (near the Albanian border), and one in Central and Southern Greece. The latter, which includes the vast majority of speakers of Arvanitika in Greece, has by itself a great dialectical variety which makes some of these dialects to be, or to be perceived by the speakers as, mutually unintelligible (Nakratzas, 1992:86; Trudgill et al., 1975:44; Tsitsipis, 1983:297; Williams, 1992:85). Along with Vlachs, Macedonians, and Roma, Arvanites in Greece argue whether they should use the Greek or the Latin alphabet to write their language, which has rarely been written (Gerou, 1994a; Kazazis, 1994).
    Most Arvanites have traditionally lived in Central and Southern Greece: in most departments of the regions of Continental Greece (Sterea Ellada) and the Peloponnese (including especially most islands corresponding to these areas) and the Cyclades island of Andros. Arvanites also live near the Albanian border, in most departments of Epirus and in the Florina and Kastoria departments of Macedonia; also, in the border (with Turkey) department of Evros (in Thrace) and in the Salonica department (where they settled along with other Orthodox refugees from Eastern Thrace, in the 1920’s). Like the rest of the population, since the 1950s, Arvanites have been emigrating from their villages to the cities and especially to the capital Athens, which, incidentally, was a mainly Albanian (Arvanite) small town in the early 1800’s, before becoming the Greek state’s capital (Nakratzas, 1992:87-8). It appears that urbanization has been leading to the loss of the use of the language, which has been surviving more in the traditional villages.
    There have not been any official statistics on this as well as on any other minority group in Greece since 1951 (and the statistics before then are generally considered unreliable, reflecting mostly only those with a strong ethnic consciousness). Today, the best estimate for the people who speak the language and/or have an Arvanite consciousness is that they number around 200,000. Trudgill (1983:128) gives an estimate of 140,000 for the speakers in Attica and Beotia, a figure also mentioned in Hill (1990:135). For the Arvanites in the Northwest, a figure of 30,000 is given by Ciampi (1985:87), who also puts the figure for the total group at 156,000-201,000. Some members of the community give much higher figures, around 1,600,000 (Kormoss, 1994:1; and Gerou, 1994b:2): this figure may correspond to all Greeks who have some Arvanite ancestry, but certainly not to the current speakers and those with a similar consciousness. Like all other minority languages, except Turkish, Arvanitika has no legal status in Greece and is not taught at any level of the educational system.
    Moreover, there are no media in Arvanitika, though in some Attica radio stations some Arvanitika songs can be heard. Arvanites are Orthodox Christians (many belong to the Old-Calendarist ‘Genuine Orthodox’ Church); their church services are held in Greek, with some rare exceptions of Gospel reading in Arvanitika at Easter. Even Arvanite cultural activities appear to be limited. Tsitsipis has reported only occasional folklore festivals, music and poetry contests (Tsitsipis, 1983 & 1994). Since the 1980’s, there has been a creation of Arvanite cultural associations and publication of a magazine and some books on Arvanite culture (very little though published in the language). In some areas, Easter Gospel is read in Arvanitika (Gerou, 1994a). Perhaps the most significant -for the large public- venture is the release of the CD -with an attached explanatory booklet- Arvanitic Songs (FM Records, 1994).
    History of the community and the language
    The first Christian Albanian migrations to what is today Greek territory took place as early as the XI-XII centuries (Trudgill, 1975:5; Banfi, 1994:19), although the main ones most often mentioned in the bibliography happened in the XIV-XV centuries, when Albanians were invited to settle in depopulated areas by their Byzantine, Catalan or Florentine rulers (Tsitsipis, 1994:1; Trudgill, 1975:5; Nakratzas, 1992:20-24 & 78-90; Banfi, 1994:19). According to some authors, they were also fleeing forced Islamization by the Turks in what is today Albania (Katsanis, 1994:1). So, some have estimated that, when the Ottomans conquered the whole Greek territory in the XV century, some 45% of it was populated by Albanians (Trudgill, 1975:6). Another wave of Muslim Albanian migrations took place during the Ottoman period, mainly in the XVIII century (Trudgill, 1975:6; Banfi, 1994:19). All these Albanians are the ancestors of modern-day Arvanites in Central and Southern Greece.

    Very little is known about the Albanian presence in Thrace; it was probably a spill-over of the many migrations mentioned above. Anyhow, there were many Albanians in Eastern Thrace and in the adjacent Western Thrace department of Evros. The former, as Christians, were relocated in Greece during the compulsory exchange of Christians and Muslims between modern-day Turkey and Greece in the 1920’s: many settled in the Salonica department.
    As for the Arvanites of Epirus and Western Macedonia, they are considered to be part of the modern Albanian nation (Banfi, 1994:20), something which perhaps explains their self-identification as Shqiptars rather than Arberor. When frontiers were drawn up in the early XX century, some Christian and Muslim Albanians were left in Greek territory, just as some Greeks were left in Albanian territory. An important part of these Albanians, the Muslim Chams, fled Greece towards the end of World War II, as many had collaborated with the occupying forces and were, as a result, persecuted by Greek resistance.
    When the modern Greek state was formed, the Albanian-speaking population and its language were called Albanian, even if those Christian Albanians were considered an integral part of the Greek nation and had played a decisive role in the War of Independence between 1821-1828 (Bartholdy, 1993; Bickford-Smith, 1993: 47; Embeirikos, 1994; Vakalopoulos, 1994:243-249). However, the policy of the new Greek state was to Hellenize all the non-Greek speaking Orthodox populations within its, then limited, territory as well as in the territories of Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace and Asia Minor still under Ottoman rule, which were though considered as part of Greek irredenta; the other Balkan countries (Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, and later Albania) had also followed similar policies. As elsewhere in Europe, army and education were the most effective mechanisms of Hellenization, assisted by the judiciary system ready to denounce and punish all forms of behavior inconsistent with the state’s nationalist culture (Kitromilidis, 1990:38; Kollias, 1994).
    It is noteworthy to point out though, that, before the definite development of modern Albanian nationalism, there were efforts in the 1870’s to include most Albanians under Ottoman rule in a Greek-Albanian kingdom (Castellan, 1991:333; Vakalopoulos, 1994: 243-249), just as others appealed to them for their inclusion in an Albanian-Vlach Macedonian state (Berard, 1987:292-333). The Albanians’ fear of an eventual assimilation by the Greeks led to the failure of the former effort.
    The result of the Hellenization policy -which was to take a very oppressive turn during the Metaxas dictatorship (1936-1940)- was that Albanian Greeks, especially after the emergence of Albanian nationalism and of the Albanian state, felt that they had to ‘constantly prove their Greekness.’ Hence, their very conservative political behavior: they had traditionally been royalists and, in large numbers, adhered to the Old Calendarist Orthodox Christian Church, which -when the split in the Greek Church over the introduction of the new calendar took place in the 1920’s- was originally supported by the royalist forces. Moreover, and more important for the survival of their language, they have distanced themselves from the Albanians to the extent that most consider today offending to be called Albanians: they have preferred the term Arvanite (Arberor in their own language) for the people and Arvanitika (Arberichte) for the language, as opposed to Albanian (Shqiptar for the people and Shqip for the language) that Albanians use for themselves and their language -with the exception of the Arvanites of Northwestern Greece, as mentioned above. This attitude may also explain the efforts of some intellectuals of the Arvanite community to trace Arvanites’ and Arvanitika’s roots back to the prehistoric inhabitants of Greece, the Pelasgians and their language, so as to claim indigenous status (Williams, 1992:87; Gerou, 1994b; Thomopoulos, 1912).
    Trudgill (1994) has shown that, in Greece, as minority languages are all alien (Abstand) to Greek, the use of different names for them (Arvanitika rather than Albanian, Vlach rather than Romanian, Slav rather than Macedonian) has contributed to denying their heteronomy (i.e. their dependence on the corresponding standard language) and increasing their autonomy (by assigning them the status of autonomous languages). As a result, the minority language’s vulnerability grew significantly, as well as the dissociation of the speakers’ ethnic (Arvanite, Vlach, Slavophone) identities from the corresponding national identities (Albanian, Romanian, Macedonian) which have developed in the respective modern nation-states. Today, Arvanite ethnic identity is perceived by many members of the community as distinct from that of the other Greeks who have Greek as their mother tongue but as fully compatible with Greek national identity (likewise for many Vlachs and Macedonians). A similar phenomenon has helped weaken the links between Pomaks in Greece (speaking a Bulgarian-based language) and Bulgarians, and the consequent Pomaks’ assimilation into the Turkish ethnic and, by now, national identity in Western Thrace, an assimilation here detrimental to Greece’s homogenization and anti-minority policies. In another Balkan context, such attitude helped distance the literary Macedonian language standardized by Yugoslav authorities in the late 1940s from Bulgarian to which the previously spoken dialects in Yugoslav Macedonia were heteronomous.
    If Hellenization was a significant factor for the weakening of the use of Arvanitika, urbanization was another. Arvanitika had survived until recently in many homogeneous villages where most people had been using the language regularly. Those, though, who moved to the cities soon abandoned the use of the language as it was unintelligible to most other city dwellers and was even perecived as a sign of backwardness; on the other hand, the children had no way of learning the language as neither was it taught at school nor was it used regularly by family members -often grand parents- at home (Moraitis, 1994).
    Current situation of the community and the language
    Almost all information about the present concerns the bulk of the Arvanite community in Central and Southern Greece. The other two communities are hardly mentioned in the literature and have also been ignored in the 1987 European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages (EBLUL) visit to the Arvanite community in Greece, an oversight which led to at least one indirect protest letter by the Tychero municipality (Kazazis, 1994); nevertheless, a 1994 second visit by the EBLUL was again limited to the Central Greece Arvanite villages.
    Almost all speakers of Arvanitika are today bilingual, i.e. they also speak Greek, usually fluently for the younger generations (Trudgill, 1975:53). It is widely agreed that Arvanitika today have been influenced significantly by the linguistic environment in which they have evolved, sometimes for centuries, without any contact with the Albanian communities of modern day Albania. So, it has acquired a separate (Ausbau) status from Albanian, in fact with dialectical richness; nevertheless, at least partial mutual intelligibility between Arvanite and Albanian exists (Trudgill, 1994:14). Indeed, the recent (in the early 1990’s) arrival of hundreds of thousands, mainly illegal, Albanian immigrants in Greece has led to a successful test of that mutual intelligibility, when many settled in Arvanitika villages (it is also noteworthy that in these villages we have seen the two most serious incidents of beatings of Albanian immigrants).
    A comparison with standard Albanian shows that Arvanitika has suffered reduction and simplification. Reduction here means loss of: Albanian vocabulary (often replaced by Greek words duly adapted phonetically and morphologically); prepositions (sometimes replaced by Greek ones); verbal tenses; and forms. While simplification consists of loss of case forms, connecting particles and invariable verbal forms (Trudgill, 1983:115-123).
    On the other hand, Arvanitika is threatened with extinction. In the early 1970’s, more than 80% of the inhabitants of Arvanite villages in the Attica & Beotia departments were found to be fluent speakers of Arvanitika, though the loss of the language was more pronounced in the villages close to Athens than elsewhere; at the same time, however, the actual use of the language was more limited (Trudgill, 1975:56-61). Moreover, there has been a rather widespread indifference among Arvanites, as well as Vlachs and Macedonian, about the fate of their mother tongues, along with self-deprecation: they have been led by the dominant unilingual Greek culture to -usually sincerely- believe that these languages are deficient, lack proper grammatical structure, have a poor vocabulary (Trudgill, 1994:14; Tsitsipis, 1994:4). So, gradually, Arvanites have switched from bilingualism to a subordination of Arvanitika to Greek; and, sometimes, young people discourage their parents from speaking the language (especially in public). It is probably a correct estimate, although no studies equivalent to that of the 1970s exist, that the language is used today by middle aged people (interchanged with Greek) and by elderly people (in most contexts) and much less by the younger generation (usually when addressing older people, in strict family context, or, sometimes, too, to make fun of non-speakers) (Tsitsipis, 1994; Trudgill, 1983:114-5). Moreover, in the Peloponnese, it seems that the users are predominantly elderly people (Williams, 1992:85-6). Experts, therefore, agree that Arvanitika in Greece is threatened with extinction more than the equivalent Arberichte language of Southern Italy, as the latter country is more tolerant and does not feel threatened by plurilingualism (Hamp, 1978; Tsitsipis, 1983).
    Since the 1980s, some efforts to preserve Arvanite culture have been made. A congress was held in 1985. Four cultural associations have been created: the Arvanitikos Syndesmos Hellados (the Arvanite League of Greece) which has been publishing, since 1983, the bimonthly Besa (in Greek); the Kentro Arvanitikou Politismou (Center for Arvanite Culture); the Arvanitikos Syllogos Ano Liosion (Arvanite Association of Ano Liosia); and the Syllogos Arvaniton Corinthias (Association of Arvanites of Corinthia). Books on Arvanite culture have been published. Church reading and chanting in some Arvanite villages has been reported (Williams, 1992:87). Finally, we had the release of a CD with Arvanite music mentioned above. Overall, though, this movement is weaker than similar ones among Vlachs and Macedonians (and certainly among officially recognized Turks).
    One reason for such a slow movement is the apparent hostility of the Greek state to such ‘revivals’ among Arvanites, Vlachs, and Macedonians, which is indicated by police disruption of festivals (in Macedonia), and harassment of musicians who play and sing songs in minority languages; as well as by the tolerance -by the state and particularly its judiciary- of public calls, printed in the press, to use violence against those musicians; likewise, human and minority rights activists have been the object of similar threats (Stohos, 20/7/1994 and in previous issues, where even the European Union’s Euromosaic project -to report on the status of the linguistic minorities in the EU- was attacked). Such hostile environment makes even the scholars’ work look suspicious: for example, Arvanites have reacted with incredulity and suspicion to scholars’ assertions that their language can be written (Tsitsipis, 1983:296-7; Trudgill, 1983:129; Williams, 1992:88). Moreover, the EBLUL’s first visit to the community was violently attacked by some community members (Williams, 1992:88) as well as in state-sponsored publications (Lazarou et al., 1993:191-193).
    Likewise, Arvanitika has never been included in the educational curricula of the modern Greek state. On the contrary, its use has been strongly discouraged at schools (and in the army) through physical punishment, humiliation, or, in recent years, simple incitation of the Arvanitika users (Williams, 1992:86; Trudgill, 1983:130-1). Such attitudes have led many Arvanite (as well as Vlach, and Macedonian) parents to discourage their children from learning their mother tongue so as to avoid similar discrimination and suffering (Trudgill, 1983:130).

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    hahahaha

    As long as it will take the Greek language to become First in Albania,
    remember that second language in Albania is Greek,

    and many Albanian names are Aromani or Greek

    are you afraid if Greek becomes first language in Albanian?
    You know well that it's not true. The second language in Albania is Italian. The third is english. The Greek is the fourth. Could you elaborate your claim. How could be the Greek the first language? Say something to support that.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    What, they didn't change it yet?!!! What happened to the reforms?
    What? !!!! You are waiting that they are gonna change anything there? !!! .

  8. #408
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    You know well that it's not true. The second language in Albania is Italian. The third is english. The Greek is the fourth. Could you elaborate your claim. How could be the Greek the first language? Say something to support that.
    hahaha you are funny

    second language in Greece is English with amzing 54%
    third is Deutsch with 18%
    third is francais with 12%
    fourth is Italian (not Aromani with) with 10%
    fifth is Turkish and Albanian and rest Arab and Indian with 10%
    but second spoken language is Albanian
    and third Serbian and Bulgarian

    as in Albania
    secondary language is Greek

    secondary language is not what people know
    is what you hear at the streats


    for example all Francais know English or Spanish etc
    but secondary can be Algerien in some parts, although spoken by less %
    than people who know second language

    >80 % of Greeks speak another language
    only 6-8 % speak Albanian today
    but secondary is Albanian

    same in Albania
    many know English Italian etc
    but secondary is Greek
    it is estimated that 25% of Albania knows Greek language
    but only 15% use it as main language
    and in next generation will reach 40%
    come on don't hide behind your finger

    SECONDARY LANGUAGE IS WHAT PEOPLE USE IN DAILY LIFE
    NOT WHAT THEY KNOW.

  9. #409
    Regular Member Piro Ilir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    hahaha you are funny

    second language in Greece is English with amzing 54%
    third is Deutsch with 18%
    third is francais with 12%
    fourth is Italian (not Aromani with) with 10%
    fifth is Turkish and Albanian and rest Arab and Indian with 10%
    but second spoken language is Albanian
    and third Serbian and Bulgarian

    as in Albania
    secondary language is Greek

    secondary language is not what people know
    is what you hear at the streats


    for example all Francais know English or Spanish etc
    but secondary can be Algerien in some parts, although spoken by less %
    than people who know second language

    >80 % of Greeks speak another language
    only 6-8 % speak Albanian today
    but secondary is Albanian

    same in Albania
    many know English Italian etc
    but secondary is Greek
    it is estimated that 25% of Albania knows Greek language
    but only 15% use it as main language
    and in next generation will reach 40%
    come on don't hide behind your finger

    SECONDARY LANGUAGE IS WHAT PEOPLE USE IN DAILY LIFE
    NOT WHAT THEY KNOW.
    How can be 25 % Greek speaking in Albania? Weird. I never heard that. Every one there speaks Albanian, except some villages on the south. Before the fell of communism near gjirokastra was a Greek minority. Today there are only few people left there because they all migrated into Greece. The Greek state give them the Greek passports, so they left from there.

    A friend of mine visited last month Greece (selanik) for medical care reasons. You can heard there all the time on the streets the Albanian language. It's normal. Even the Greeks understands the Albanian. But of course they don't speak Albanian. Probably, there are one million Albanians living throughout Greece, including all the Albanians.

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    Good and correct analysis for this forum.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Really? Maybe you will realize what great empires failed. The problem is that to realize a project among other things need money.


    No it`s Italian.


    hahahahah.

    P.S.
    Important is that in Greece after 200 years people speak greek. Because 200 years ago:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis
    Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: Ιωάννης Κωλέττης) (1773[citation needed] - 1847) was a Greek politician who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.
    In 1813, he settled at Ioannina, where he served as a doctor and after gaining standing he was recruited as the personal doctor of Ali Pasa's son, Muqtar Pasa. He remained in Ioannina till March 1821, when he entered Filiki Eteria and left for Syrrako, together with chieftain Raggos, in order to spread the revolution into Central Greece (Rumeli), but his efforts quickly failed because of the rapid reaction of the Ottoman army. Kolettis was the leader of the pro-French party and based his power on his relations with the leaders of Central Greece but also on his ability to eliminate his adversaries by acting behind the scenes.

    What he said nearly 200 years ago:

    www.freeinquiry.gr/pro.php?id=2172
    «Για ποιούς έλληνες συζητάμε κύριοι; Η Ελλάδα φοράει τσαρούχια βλάχικα και φέσια αρβανίτικα».

    "Gentlemen, what Hellenes are we talking about? All Hellas is wearing Vlach tsarouhia and Albanian fezzes."


    This raises a question: Since there were no Hellenes (Greeks), how did the revolution of 1821 prevail? It prevailed thanks to the British, who wanted a state of their own in the Mediterranean (and not to fall under Russian influence and control). They took advantage of the uprising of the albanians of Greece and helped them, seeing the collapse of the Ottoman Empire


    Edit
    So according to Wiki, Koletis was an Greek?

    Yep.

    blah blah,

    when you understand what he says come back and tell us,
    because he surely says something, but not what you say,
    something different,

    but from a guy that reads kolla, dhmou, dhmopoulos,
    I expect nothing,

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    With all the refugee news, nobody even mentions Greece anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by dease View Post
    With all the refugee news, nobody even mentions Greece anymore
    Greece does not need great attention. They are doing well, now. I are solving the problem with staying in Euro. Well Done for them.

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    They have to do more to draw world capital in and create jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    They have to do more to draw world capital in and create jobs.
    They are rising retiring pensions, nationalizing roads (not selling to catch more world capital). Even Tsipras is fighting against bullshit of greek church. But, yes they have way to go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Greece does not need great attention. They are doing well, now. I are solving the problem with staying in Euro. Well Done for them.
    But the debt of Greece is higher than ever?

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    It's just a time bomb, Germany's loan only delayed inevitable.

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    Official visit of the German President to Greece

    11/10/2018 13:35


    The President of the Federal Republic of Germany Mr. Frank Walter Steinmeier is on a two–day official visit to Greece at the invitation of his Greek counterpart Mr. Prokopis Pavlopolos.
    The German President placed a wreath at the Monument of the Unknown Soldier this morning and then met with President Pavlopoulos and Prime Minister Tsipras.
    In the afternoon Mr. Steinmeier will be named Honorary Doctor of the Faculty of Law of the University of Athens, while on Friday he will visit the archaeological site of Ancient Messina, in Ithomi. The German President will then be named an honorary citizen of the city of Kalamata and then depart for Berlin.

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    Greece ‘to Claim €280 Billion’ in War Reparations from Germany

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    Tasos Kokkinidis -

    Oct 7, 2018







    Greece is about to launch a campaign to claim €280 billion ($323 billion) in war reparations from Germany, reports Der Spiegel.
    The German magazine notes that as long as Greece was dependent on EU support, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras had avoided raising the issue. But now, after the end of the third bailout program, Athens is ready to take initiatives to claim the money, it says.
    The issue is resurfacing a few days before the official visit of Germany’s President Frank-Walter Steinmeier to Athens where he will meet the President of the Republic Prokopis Pavlopoulos and Tsipras.
    Der Spiegel says it is no coincidence that the two highest ranking Greek politicians have both raised the issue in the last few days.
    It marks the beginning of a long campaign, which, according to the German magazine, will start in November.
    The Greek Parliament will endorse an audit report ready since August 2016, according to which Greece is entitled to €269.5 billion of repairs from the Second World War.
    In addition, Greece demands the repayment of a €10.3 billion occupation loan.
    The report remained under wraps throughout the last two years, but Tsipras seems ready to bring it back to the surface and start a campaign for war reparations, says Der Spiegel.
    In the second phase, Greece intends to present its arguments at world organizations such as the European Parliament, the European Council, and the UN.
    In the third phase, Greece plans to call on Germany to negotiate war reparations. For its part, the German government is expected to reject the request. Already in the past, it has made it clear that Greece has no legal right to claim damages for the Second World War.
    In the opinion of some Greek lawyers, this German denial may open the way for the case to be brought before the International Court of Justice in The Hague, says the German magazine.

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    Germany: Issue of War Reparations to Greece ‘Closed’

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    Philip Chrysopoulos -

    Oct 11, 2018

    Berlin sees that the issue of war reparations to Greece is an issue that is legally and politically closed, said German government spokesperson Steffen Seibert on Wednesday. The response came after the Greek government raised again the issue of war reparations, claiming some € 280 billion in damages during the German Occupation.
    Seibert referred to the Greek claim responding to a Polish journalist’s question about the position of the German government on the request from the Greek side.
    “We have actually discussed this issue many times. Our position is that the issue of German reparations has been legally and politically regulated definitively. Nothing has changed in our position. Other than that, there has not been an official move by the Greek government,” Seibert said.
    Seibert was also asked if there is a joint move between Poland and Greece to claim war compensations from Germany.
    “Honestly, I have no information about this. It would also be surprising if I had information about possible consultations between Poland and Greece. I do not have them,” the spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel concluded.
    Earlier, the German press reported that the demand for war reparations is expected to be high on the agenda of the meeting of the German President, Frank Walter Steinmeier, with President of the Hellenic Republic, Prokopis Pavlopoulos.
    German magazine Der Spiegel wrote that the Greek parliament has approved a report according to which “Greeks are demanding the sum of € 269.5 billion as compensation for the period of World War II.” The report includes, among other things, demands for compensation of € 10.3 billion for the loans Greece was forced to give Germany during the four-year occupation.
    Source: Athens – Macedonian News Agency

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    TASS: Tsipras to visit Russia in winter

    NEWS 08.10.2018




    Preparations are underway for a visit to Russia by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, according to the TASS news agency on Monday.

    TASS cited Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov as saying the visit will most likely take place in the coming winter.

    “Indeed, Tsipras’ visit (to Russia) and such contact (with Putin) are being prepared. We expect such contact in the winter,” TASS quoted Peskov as saying.
    The agency cited a Greek diplomatic source which said that Tsipras may visit Russia in the first half of December.

    Relations between the two countries have soured in recent months over the expulsion of two Russia diplomats on charges of interfering with Greece’s domestic affairs.

    http://tass.com/politics/1024927

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    Orthodox priests to be cut from Greek government payroll
    Prime minister determined to overhaul country’s complex ties with the church

    Helena Smith in Athens

    Thu 8 Nov 2018 05.00 GMT Last modified on Thu 8 Nov 2018 12.55 GMT
    Athens’ leftist government has taken a radical step in transforming the Greek state’s relations with the powerful Orthodox church, announcing an end to the status of clerics as civil servants.

    In the biggest move yet towards the 11-million strong nation becoming a fully fledged secular country, officials said the public sector would cease to have any religious role.

    “With this agreement 10,000 civil servant posts will be freed up,” said the government spokesman Dimitris Tzannakopoulos. “Although clerics are not exactly civil servants, in name they are, and are counted as civil servants.”

    The prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, an atheist, has said he was determined to overhaul the Greek state’s complex ties with the church. Progressives have long spoken of the need to separate church and state with the “historic” accord now being seen as key to achieving both.


    Under a deal between the government and church, priests would be paid from a joint fund that would also manage earnings generated from properties whose ownership has long been disputed between the two bodies. Salaries, however, would still be dispensed by the state through an annual subsidy, set at €200m, that the church will receive.

    The Greek church is by far the country’s richest institution with hotels, enterprises and other assets in its portfolio. The scale of such wealth frequently caused friction during Greece’s long-running financial crisis. Under the deal, revenues from properties whose ownership has been contested since the early 1950s would be split 50-50.

    Tzannakopoulos said the accord also sought to ensure religious neutrality for a state long accused of prejudicing citizens who were not Greek Orthodox. Athens has faced fierce criticism for perceived violation of the rights of religious minorities, be they Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses or Catholics.

    “Religious neutrality [means] that the Greek state will not be able to recognise certain religions with more or less rights,” Tzannakopoulos added. “But what doesn’t change is recognition of the fact that the Orthodox church has the overwhelming majority of [religious] faithful.”

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    These priests will no longer be considered as public servants but as farmers who milk their cows. Seems that the division between state and religion, one of the most important achievements of western civilization, will still take a long time to be applied in Greece.
    Germans have a lot of money.

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