Politics Future of Greece

[DuPidh]

The whole EU program of help will failure. After that, they will blame again the troika and the Germany. Already they are calling Germans with disgusting epithets. Greece need a new start

I agree with your observations!
Without billions of dollars Germany gave to Greece to rebuild the country, Greece would have been economically another Balkan poor house.
Now Greeks not only don't appreciate German generosity but they curse and offend this nation that shared part of their wealth with Greeks.
The only thing I don't understand is how come the Germans could be so patience with peasants of Greece?

 

[Yetos]

still hide behind Mexican flag?


DO YOU NEED A MASK TO POST?

 

[LeBrok]

I agree with your observations!
Without billions of dollars Germany gave to Greece to rebuild the country, Greece would have been economically another Balkan poor house.
Now Greeks not only don't appreciate German generosity but they curse and offend this nation that shared part of their wealth with Greeks.
The only thing I don't understand is how come the Germans could be so patience with peasants of Greece?

Match your flag to your IP address, and yes everybody knows now that you are Albanian.

 

[Yetos]

has anybody read the leaks and plans of each one?


Shauble plan B
he offered 50 billions to Greece in 2015 and a total 120 billion E if Greece left Eurozone till 2018
nothing mentioned about an exit from EEC.
so much money to achieve Grexit!!!! why?
that man is always predicted, but keeps an enigma, and I do not want to die before find what is in his mind,
does anyone see what is in his mind?



Baroyfakis Varoyfakis plan B
he would hack the taxisnet matrix numbers, the system of taxes is connected with ECB and alla banks,
we would input a bitcoin such as IOU, something like in the Kalifornia,
and if the Grexit would prevail that would turn to bit-Drachma
if not that would solve and avoid problems from ECB capital control.
smart plan that could double triple the damage to EU economies according theirf power in EUro bill
for example that would heart Germany 4 times the damage of a Grexit but only half for countries like Bulgaria Romania,
but is illegal to hack peoples DATA

Lafazanis plan (far left platform) B
he would gather all Euro coins and bills, by invading the banks and Greek central bank, which is part of ECB, and given the army to protect and produce medicines etc etc
then change them with other or cooperate with BRICS to support humanistic efforts and developement
Stupid plan, that could sping from a movie for a Bolsevik October


anyway for those who still did not understand
the referendum question was noT Euro or Drachme
it was about Yunker proposal of 25/06/2015

 

[DuPidh]

has anybody read the leaks and plans of each one?


Shauble plan B
he offered 50 billions to Greece in 2015 and a total 120 billion E if Greece left Eurozone till 2018
nothing mentioned about an exit from EEC.
so much money to achieve Grexit!!!! why?
that man is always predicted, but keeps an enigma, and I do not want to die before find what is in his mind,
does anyone see what is in his mind?



Baroyfakis Varoyfakis plan B
he would hack the taxisnet matrix numbers, the system of taxes is connected with ECB and alla banks,
we would input a bitcoin such as IOU, something like in the Kalifornia,
and if the Grexit would prevail that would turn to bit-Drachma
if not that would solve and avoid problems from ECB capital control.
smart plan that could double triple the damage to EU economies according theirf power in EUro bill
for example that would heart Germany 4 times the damage of a Grexit but only half for countries like Bulgaria Romania,
but is illegal to hack peoples DATA

Lafazanis plan (far left platform) B
he would gather all Euro coins and bills, by invading the banks and Greek central bank, which is part of ECB, and given the army to protect and produce medicines etc etc
then change them with other or cooperate with BRICS to support humanistic efforts and developement
Stupid plan, that could sping from a movie for a Bolsevik October


anyway for those who still did not understand
the referendum question was noT Euro or Drachme
it was about Yunker proposal of 25/06/2015

Yes you can read my very first post where I said I am a proud citizen of Mexico but with Albanian roots. Why is so hard to accept this. One of my parents is Albo. Otherwise I would not be involved in discussions about the region.
There is nothing malice in my posts but common sense. Greeks have one small problem. The think of themselves as chosen people, but others don,t buy it!
The future of Greece certainly is not bright. The amount of debt they have accumulated is enormous.
In the new EU they will have no favors. There are many new EU entrants much poor than Greece that will not put up with Greek comedy of referendums. Greece has for years blocking Macedonians enter into the EU for whatever reasons, but with one ill purpose in mind. To deny Macedonians financial benefits that come from Eu membership. But for themselves shamelessly not only they want those benefits but they want more. And that shows that they are not fit to be members of a democratic organisation like EU is. How come an unfit for the EU country like Greece raise the hand to deny membership of another poor and small country like Macedonia?

 

[Sirius]

Yes you can read my very first post where I said I am a proud citizen of Mexico but with Albanian roots. Why is so hard to accept this. One of my parents is Albo. Otherwise I would not be involved in discussions about the region

Thank you for clarifying.


Some years ago, I participated in this very forum and I had a very rispid discussion with some Spaniards. When I entered and saw the flag, I was afraid that after that many years, they would continue attacking Mexico and Mexicans here, as they usually do.


We Mexicans had some immigration - or people in transit - from former Yugoslavia after the unfortunate wars in the 90s. Croats, Serbs, Bosnians, Albanians... almost all good people, and with a lot of symphaty for Mexicans. In general we think about all of them, as nice persons. At the very least, with us.


Having clarified your situation, I would not say anymore but this: Being that you remain in Mexico or you go elsewhere around this Continent, you will feel that some ethnic or other rivalries that seemed so important there, will dwindle and will seem unimportant with time.


Nice day to all the forum-ers.

 

[Yetos]

Greece pays virtually no intrests. They have the highest debt rate of the whole EU, but pay less intrests than most EU countries.
They get their money virtually for free. And when the new loan will - if ever - be paid back nobody knows.
Debt relief is something that European taxpayers wouldn't accept.
Debt relief is not the main issue either.
The main issue is the reform of the Greek society and economy.
I don't believe giving more money will help.
I believe Grexit would have been the right shocktherapy. But politicians were not brave enough to let it happen.
Maybe Grexit will come. IMO within 5 years there will be a new Greek crisis.

Greece should never have been allowed to the Euro. They didn't meet the requierements. They falsified their accounts and EU politcians knew about that.
They said 'politics should surpass economics in crucial moments'.
Now they say that 'history has shown that after long discussions with all fractions the EU Parliament allways ends up making the right decision'.
No journalist asked them why then Greece was allowed to the Euro in the first place.
I'm so fed up with all these smooth talkers who are acting totally irresponsable.

I do not deny what you say,

but you give only the one side of the coin,
as you say Greece Greece used goldman sachs, to falsify accounts, but Eu politicians knew it,
BUT ACCEPTED !!! WHY?
I think the same 'hate' against Greece must also be in the same Degree with the politicians who accept it,

and the Eu tax payers are not paying Greece, but Goldman Sachs, But still you blame Greece,
and can I accept that?
But why you do not blame the politicians who knew and accept to pay Goldman Sachs?

Guys isn't time for EU to learn the lesson against neo-liberians?

THE EEC and EUrozone, had no mechanism to defend in such cases,
after 2008 with Greece as victim they finally manage to ESM but still is not working with great efficiency, but is a substractum to discuss for future,

the problem of EU states to borrow with different rates/interests from privateers or foreign Bankers, is almost solved,
Afetr Greek crisis, all Money Vultures who wanted to enslave free world under the 'myth of free will world' of Milton Friedman they can not touch EU states.
it is time to stop and erase Rothschild system, WHO FROM NAPOLEON WARS TILL TODAY THEY GET RICH BY KILLING AND ENSLAVE EUROPE

so thanks to dirty/fallen/bad/ugly Greece EU has a mechanism of stability and secure, and is safe from FRIEDMAN's money vultures who want to enslave human beings with 'state loans'

MAYBE THE POLITICIANS WHO ACCEPTED THE FALSIFIED GREEK ACCOUNTS, KNEW ABOUT THAT BUT LET IT HAPPEN IN ORDER TO "DEFEND/ARMOR'' EU in the future,


until today, states borrowed from privateers with diferent rates,
from this times,
states can have same rate from ESM and ECB,
is n't that something for EU? just ask



But when comes to personal I feel much anger than you, and more hate against some kinds of my people,
who accepted millions of Euro to make trash bargains, or to corrupt society,
I feel anger for my politicians, some of them my choice, who still walk free with 'black' money in their pockets,
a hate that lead many to Golden dawn or radical left.
anyway soon you will learn why that happened,
not far in time, it has to do with geopoliticks.
my hate for the 100 000 Greeks who send their 128 000 000 000 E abroad to other Banks outside Greece with out pay the taxes, is bigger than your anger,
now you see why Grexit is on discuss continuesly?
search the gold prizes from 2004 till today, you understand more, about the other side of the coin.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I told before, banks are guilty, EU politicians and Greek politics all are guilty
but I don't believe in farfetched conspiracy theories

and there allways should be some market mechanism at work
countries - as well as banks and companies should balance their books if they don't want to get excluded from financial markets

 

[bicicleur 2]

what about this : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-pm-tsipras-under-pressure-141355344.html

was there realy some conspiracy plan to rob the Greek central bank and to force Grexit?

 

[Yetos]

what about this : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-pm-tsipras-under-pressure-141355344.html

was there realy some conspiracy plan to rob the Greek central bank and to force Grexit?

I already post it in #324,

 

[bicicleur 2]

I already post it in #324,

such desperate plans show how desperate the situation is

none will help

if Greece does not change, their economy will become like that of Roumenia or Bulgaria with a small surplus from tourism

but the Greek people have been spoiled by the money spent and the promises made by Greek politicians into a lifestyle they can't afford
and when they've spent all that money and there is none left they blaim capitalism and Germany

 

[LeBrok]

Perhaps we should have "governments for hire", professionals who knows how economy works and other aspects of well run country? Maybe Greece should accept (elect) German, Swiss or Singaporeans to run Greece for a decade or two? Without good economy Greeks are doomed. Somebody needs to restart the economic engine.

 

[Kardu]

European Union is the best expression of aspirations of European nations.

I think in the future EU will further strengthen, not only in terms of expansion, but primary institutional.

Very questionable assumption

 

[DuPidh]

Very questionable assumption

Agree with your post. In current form EU is showing tremendous weakness. If some other for of a union is not found EU will not be around for too long.

 

[Yetos]

such desperate plans show how desperate the situation is

none will help

if Greece does not change, their economy will become like that of Roumenia or Bulgaria with a small surplus from tourism

but the Greek people have been spoiled by the money spent and the promises made by Greek politicians into a lifestyle they can't afford
and when they've spent all that money and there is none left they blaim capitalism and Germany

I agree with your comparison,
but greece already send 300 000 working places to them, due to lower salaries,
and the \tourist income is not even going to insurance deposits, due to black work (no stamps) cause in country with 2 000 000 unofficial immigrants and such numbers of none employd, black work is like a drink of water in desert,
the thing is that money were not spoiled,
they were stolen, and return back to central EU banks,
128 billions went to central Europes banks as liguid currency,
the new goverment promise a 3 year plan to tax these money, and punish the ones,
but it is dificult, since even vice minister of economics has some troubles with judges and law due to this,
although she resign that means nothing,
such things happened in Greece in 1860's and 1904's
so the ones who see behind can realize,

i really can not say what is best now,
keep rolling the problem to future until it is solved?
or face it now with the disaster that can produce,

Anyway, why you think Schauble offered so many millions to Greece?

 

[Yetos]

Perhaps we should have "governments for hire", professionals who knows how economy works and other aspects of well run country? Maybe Greece should accept (elect) German, Swiss or Singaporeans to run Greece for a decade or two? Without good economy Greeks are doomed. Somebody needs to restart the economic engine.

if you could look at me, I have a smile,
maybe?
but once you said that Greece from 1821 and after has how many bankrupts? remember?
well did you notice the anomalies and the war in each one?

if you did, then you know what is going on,

 

[Garrick]

Very questionable assumption

For me it is the best option. Because small and unrelated European countries cannot be competitors giants on the world stage. But as Union it is almost different story. Today European Union has the highest GDP in the world, ahead of USA and China. More Union, including development of institutions at the level of the Union, produces better results.

 

[LeBrok]

For me it is the best option. Because small and unrelated European countries cannot be competitors giants on the world stage. But as Union it is almost different story. Today European Union has the highest GDP in the world, ahead of USA and China. More Union, including development of institutions at the level of the Union, produces better results.

It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.

 

[Piro Ilir]

It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.

Include Russia! Putin is too young. I don't think he ever leave the presidency. What about Turkey being within EU?

 

[LeBrok]

Include Russia! Putin is too young. I don't think he ever leave the presidency. What about Turkey being within EU?

For now both Russia and Turkey are going into dictatorship and human rights abuse mod, and as such won't be accepted into EU. They don't even want to be in EU at the moment, so it is no issue.
I'm thinking 20-50 years ahead when both become more civilized, democratic and liberal.