MOESAN
Elite member
- Messages
- 5,880
- Reaction score
- 1,291
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Brittany
- Ethnic group
- more celtic
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b - L21/S145*
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H3c
Elio,
I'm quite aware that the Regio IX Romana reached Nizza and included Parma and Piacenza. The ancestral territory of the Ligures probably extended even further into France and further into northern Italy as well. Not only do the names of supposedly "Roman" towns derive from words in the ancient Ligurian language, but there are attested speakers of it in northern Italy into the first centuries AD.
I do see E-V13 as part of the spread of Cardial culture, it's probable use of ancient sea routes that included Sicily, and the fact that most of the E-V13 in Liguria probably stems from that period. I've also already stated that I doubt that Greek traders could have had a huge impact or a few hundred Byzantine soldiers during the period of the Gothic Wars or sent to defend the corridor to Ravenna, for that matter.
So, we are largely in agreement. However, this is a science, and speculation is not good enough, and probably is not good enough; we need ancient dna which is highly resolved.
I agree. I think E-V13 is old enough to have been part of the Cardial moves, even if as a minority. We have more and more ancient DNA, but not so much for Y-haplos and not in a great number of places. "Future" past could deliver us some surprises again.
concerning the Ligurians concept I see we are here in the same state as for "Pelasgians": what kind of Ligurians? only Neolithic or pre-Neolithic people, or the ones who seemingly spoke an I-E language akin enoughh to Celtic and Italic? These last ones, appeared lately enough in History, were surely heavily Y-R1b, U152 for the most, were they not? surely a mix, but with new male ligneages. The today Liguria is an other matter.
I see in the post #12 we are in accord concerning E-V13 in Balkans and elsewhere in S-Europe, with the current knowledge we have access to.