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Thread: Ancient DNA from Greece

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    Ancient DNA from Greece

    A very interesing conference is taking place in Thessaloniki today, where the findings of a DNA analysis carried out on a number of samples from Neolithic/Bronze Age Greece are going to be revealed.
    So far the only information that has been released, mentions that the tested individuals were lactose intolerant and had brown eyes. No info on haplogroups, etc.
    The conference takes place at the Archaeological Musem of Thessaloniki and it is lead by the Department of Physical Anthropology, faculty of History and Ethnology of the Democritus University.

    Some info here (in Greek) http://www.ethnos.gr/article.asp?cat...pubid=64225380
    The Conference programme and list of speakers: http://www.amth.gr/images/Programm_DNA.png

    I will try to find our more and post an update.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by kostop View Post
    I will try to find our more and post an update.
    thanx a lot in advance.

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    Looking forward!

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    I hope they have one or two from Sesklo.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    and mycenians
    many questions could be resolved with the right DNA
    but if we're lucky we get a good peep and a lot more new questions

    we should get some E-V13 too

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    The Bronze age Montenegron(I think from 1000 BC) from Allentoft is said to be Spanish-like by Davidski. So, it'll be interesting to see older, contemporary, and more recent Greeks.

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    Google translation of Greek article(See here) linked by Kostop.

    RESEARCH ON DNA 5.500 YEARS
    Farmers of Macedonia before 5500 years

    Lactose intolerance were the village residents of the Bronze Age (2500 BC - 1850 BC ) to position Xeropigado Valley Kozani and therefore could not digest milk.

    Moreover they had brown eyes and dark skin. The new data revealed DNA analysis of skeletal remains found in the cemetery of the Bronze Age , one of the few such periods were investigated systematically in the area of Macedonia.

    The ancient DNA opens a new window on archaeological research and analysis provides valuable data , such as those in the cemetery Xeropigado spanning 1,500 square meters , retained 214 graves and " hosted " 22 dead. More will be known at a workshop organized in the Archaeological Museum of Thessaloniki , on Thursday ( 30/7 ) , at the exhibition entitled " Ancient DNA. Window to the past and the future " , which will last until May 2016 .

    the data

    Distinguished palaiogenetistes from around the world will give complementary information and details on the collection of data and the responses to the DNA in a series of issues.

    " The analysis of ancient DNA gives us the morphological characteristics, pathologies , the functioning of the body and movements of the population of ancient human ," explains the " Nation ", the assistant professor of Physical Anthropology in the Department of History and Ethnology , Democritus University of Thrace scientific responsible of the workshop , Christina Papageorgopoulou. An equally important finding for Greece is the recovery of entire genomes of three prehistoric farmers who lived in northern Greece 7500-5500 thousand years ago . These farmers from Neolithic settlements in Paliampela Kolindrou and Revenia Korinou Pieria and the Kleitos Kozanis so scientists have now concentrated their whole DNA."

    " These data are analyzed and will certainly shed light on the ancestral relationships of the first Europeans and provide a wealth of information related to functional and morphological characteristics ," noted Ms . Papageorgopoulou. The ancient DNA is any amount of DNA that can be recovered from dead organisms skeletons , mummies , prehistoric remains and extinct animals . Through complex and time-consuming laboratory analyzes reconstructed biological history and evolution of ancient and modern populations , humans and animals.

    By studying the scientists can now understand the genetic relationship of modern humans with extinct species of the genus Homo, such as Neanderthals , seek answers to questions such as the introduction of the Neolithic way of production , to study the evolution of morphological characteristics , to determine the degree of relatedness among ancient skeletons to certify the existence of pathologies and longitudinal study on the development of diseases."

    "We can reconstruct a real biography of prehistoric people ," say the scientists .

    RICH VISUAL MATERIAL

    The exhibition " Ancient DNA. Window on the Past and Future " introduces the visitor in a simple and concise manner , without compromising the scientific validity , the study of ancient DNA and its results. With concise way shows all successive stages of palaiogenetikis investigation, ie the collection and sampling of the material, the laboratory analysis , processing and interpretation of data , as well as all categories of results that may be offered.

    It also includes rich visual material, film projection and display of objects used in the laboratory in the process of analysis of ancient DNA. The material is framed by ancient objects discovered during archaeological investigations in the same places in northern Greece from which comes the skeletal material underlying the research of the Democritus University of Thrace ."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Google translation of Greek article(See here) linked by Kostop.
    A lot of blablabla in the cited text, but when the results are coming I can't find from official wording. Thanks for posting anyway.

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    Posted by thrax at Anthrogencia. 200 samples
    I have just found an interview with the greek professor Christina Papageorgopoulou.
    She said that it's impossible to analyze DNA from skeletal remains that have been cremated, so no DNA from Philip B has been studied.
    200 samples have been studied and the results are going to be published soon. No sample from the Amphipolis tomb have been studied due to high cost.
    I think this is another abstract about the same ancient Greek DNA.
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2015/0...aapa-2015.html

    Poster Chad Rohlfsen was at a conference that discussed this Ancient Greek DNA.
    The origin of the Aegean palatial civilizations from a population genetic perspective

    Unterlander

    Focusing on the Neolithic 6600-3200BCE and the Bronze Age, after 3200BCE
    A place of early urbanization, palaces, coastal settlements, an exchange networks.

    cultural or genetic changes?

    37 sites
    3 Mesolithic
    23 Neolithic
    11 Bronze Age
    ~180 individuals
    ~ are Bronze Age
    mostly low endogenous dna <2%
    mtDNA from 53 samples
    9 Early Neolithic
    23 Middle Neolithic
    21 Bronze Age

    So far, no real genetic difference between North and South Greeks
    fst -.007 pvalue ~ .53?

    Highest genetic differences shows between the early to late Nelithic. Mid/Late Neo to Bronze Age has a low fst

    Fu FS in Bronze age is -13+, showing a population expansion.

    No structure in the Bronze Age, to this point. Possibly Neo to Bronze continuity. Going to do more testing of Bronze Age Cultures and eventual shotgun testing.

    I spoke with her afterwards. She said that they have yet to test the samples against the neighbors. I mentioned the possible Catacomb influence and Bulgarian V2 sample that was Yamnaya like. She said that she will look into it. The project is still in the early stages.

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    Highest genetic differences shows between the early to late Nelithic. Mid/Late Neo to Bronze Age has a low fst
    Possibly Neo to Bronze continuity.

    that is a surprise

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Highest genetic differences shows between the early to late Nelithic. Mid/Late Neo to Bronze Age has a low fst
    Possibly Neo to Bronze continuity.

    that is a surprise
    It depends on the sources of Bronze in Greece; I suspect 2 possible sources for it: a "steppes" one and an anatolian one (some other Y-J2?) or rather a Cucuteni influenced population receding before Steppic people towards Egea Sea? in the two late cases, the differences for auDNA could not be to strong, could it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    It depends on the sources of Bronze in Greece; I suspect 2 possible sources for it: a "steppes" one and an anatolian one (some other Y-J2?) or rather a Cucuteni influenced population receding before Steppic people towards Egea Sea? in the two late cases, the differences for auDNA could not be to strong, could it?
    if it is a population receding to Greece, what about this then :

    Highest genetic differences shows between the early to late Nelithic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    The Bronze age Montenegron(I think from 1000 BC) from Allentoft is said to be Spanish-like by Davidski. So, it'll be interesting to see older, contemporary, and more recent Greeks.
    I don't remember where it was, but I already posted about this Montenegro remnant(s); I red in an other froum that finally these remnants would have been older and pertaining to a megalithic chalcolithic culture. I 'll search for more details...Sorry for the unprecise my post is.

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    I found my source: it was in For they were we are, and the link they gave is another blog!
    seemingly the tumulus is based upon a stone 'dolmen' and the dates would be 2400 BC, but bronze artefacts were found; the other blog reports they are a huge number (thousands)of this kind of tumuli or barrows, and that the culture would be akin to a Lulbjiana culture in Slovenia if I red well some lines. Maybe some sirprises for us in the coming days???
    here under the blog abstract: you can go on it for more:

    hat they were... we are
    Prehistory, Anthropology and Genetics
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    July 14, 2015
    Montenegro was part of the Dolmenic Megalithic phenomenon
    Just read a most interesting article, with many beautiful images at Old European culture blog: the excavation of a tumulus at Danilovgrad showed it was not a Bronze Age Indoeuropean/Kurgan thing but a true dolmen (trilithon) and many centuries older than expected: c. 2400 BCE.

    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Joachim/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.jpg[/IMG]


    There are thousands of similar tumuli awaiting excavation, most in the same rich area of Central Montenegro. This finding puts the Balcanic country (and probably also neighboring regions of the Western Balcans) fully within the Dolmenic Megalithic tradition in the late Copper Age.

    Also an intriguing bronze artifact was part of the grave goods, as well as zig-zag decorated pottery.

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    I am certain they will find some G2a3a,
    Since I am one, and 2 places are nearby
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    So they found no evidence of any massive bronze age invasion of Etruscan J2 carriers. That will be a real pain in the ass for certain people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc View Post
    So they found no evidence of any massive bronze age invasion of Etruscan J2 carriers. That will be a real pain in the ass for certain people.
    no but it seems J2 was before 5.1 ky in Aegean,
    unatested (leaks and rumors)
    75% are palaiolithic and 25% are neolithic population from minor asia,
    but that numbers have a statistical mistake sinece minor Asia and Balkans was eternal devastation, up and down west and east,
    all the above are unofficial yet,
    the strange is that in these leaks R pre-existed J and T is missing in neolithic, and G seems came after I

    I repeat not to be taken serious, rumors,

    the only sure is that mt H5 was abutant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    no but it seems J2 was before 5.1 ky in Aegean,
    unatested (leaks and rumors)
    75% are palaiolithic and 25% are neolithic population from minor asia,
    but that numbers have a statistical mistake sinece minor Asia and Balkans was eternal devastation, up and down west and east,
    all the above are unofficial yet,
    the strange is that in these leaks R pre-existed J and T is missing in neolithic, and G seems came after I

    I repeat not to be taken serious, rumors,

    the only sure is that mt H5 was abutant
    So R could be from early Neolithic Greece?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    if it is a population receding to Greece, what about this then :

    Highest genetic differences shows between the early to late Nelithic
    It was a supposition of mine, not an affirmation - but it could explain the few differences alleged (according to a short mention) between Neolithic and Bronze in Greece; the problem is the unprecision of terminology like 'Neolithic': what we often call 'Neolithic' is Eneolithic/Chalcolithic, when even tribes not knowing Copper had already contacts with tribes or states knowing copper; or even bronze - naming Corded's or BBs cultures "Neolithical" is a nonsense and is confusing.
    where did you find this mention of highest genetic differences between Early to Late Neolithic, and when exactly? It interest me. Thanks beforehand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    It was a supposition of mine, not an affirmation - but it could explain the few differences alleged (according to a short mention) between Neolithic and Bronze in Greece; the problem is the unprecision of terminology like 'Neolithic': what we often call 'Neolithic' is Eneolithic/Chalcolithic, when even tribes not knowing Copper had already contacts with tribes or states knowing copper; or even bronze - naming Corded's or BBs cultures "Neolithical" is a nonsense and is confusing.
    where did you find this mention of highest genetic differences between Early to Late Neolithic, and when exactly? It interest me. Thanks beforehand.
    Probably, the copper age was the age of great change in Europe and not - as previously believed - the bronze age. Any new about the conference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    It was a supposition of mine, not an affirmation - but it could explain the few differences alleged (according to a short mention) between Neolithic and Bronze in Greece; the problem is the unprecision of terminology like 'Neolithic': what we often call 'Neolithic' is Eneolithic/Chalcolithic, when even tribes not knowing Copper had already contacts with tribes or states knowing copper; or even bronze - naming Corded's or BBs cultures "Neolithical" is a nonsense and is confusing.
    where did you find this mention of highest genetic differences between Early to Late Neolithic, and when exactly? It interest me. Thanks beforehand.
    it is in post nr 9

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    A new article on this subject popped up today. (in Greek) http://www.ethnos.gr/politismos/arth...gaio-64340684/
    Apparently the full findings of the research and analysis carried out on the 3 neolithic individuals will be presented today in Thessaloniki.
    The article repeats the information previously mentioned, i.e. that the individual(s) had white skin, brown eyes and were lactose intolerant. Nothing new so far.
    I will keep an eye in case more info is released after the presentation.

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    i.e. that the individual(s) had white skin, brown eyes and were lactose intolerant.
    White or dark ??? In post #7 there is "dark skin".

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    if it is a population receding to Greece, what about this then :

    Highest genetic differences shows between the early to late Nelithic
    Anatolian farmers being swamped by C-T people getting away from IE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    White or dark ??? In post #7 there is "dark skin".
    It is indeed confusing. The latest article clearly says "ανοιχτόχρωμο δέρμα" (light skin), which contradicts the earlier publication. However, we should keep in mind that "dark" is a relative term. My guess is that they would be similar to modern day Mediterraneans, or perhaps a bit darker.

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