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Thread: I2a I-4882 new subclade A7358

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b2a1a2*- I-A7358
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1b

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: United States



    I2a I-4882 new subclade A7358

    So there has been discovered an ancient subclade match for me. It is down stream from I-4882 and associated with novel snp 19468160. It is named A7358 and can be tested at YSEQ.NET under that name. I have found a match at Poznan Poland. It is an old clade (2000 yrs) but exciting for me none the less. It is still not recognized at ISOGG or YFULL.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    You are unique.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    You belong to White Croatian branch..

    http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

    Mutation of I-S17250 has a source in southern Poland, there are and his older mutations..

    In 2010 has Ken Nordtvedt argued that I-L69.2 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion. According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE. In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I-L69.2 is not older than 2,800 years. In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I-L69.2 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula..

    So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
    originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
    extreme western Ukraine. That pattern may change with more sampling, of
    course Date: 20 May 2014..

    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-05/1400615460

    ..

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110722...r%20Hg%20I.pdf


    Another haplotype among Croats R1a Z280 CTS3402 tipe also has a high frequency in southern Poland but for now I do not know source of the same .... probably is in southern Poland but it is yet to be determined.

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...5UvaRd3c&hl=en


    Russian geneticist I. Rozhansky says:
    10/18/2013
    The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian Mountains to the Adriatic are really allied nations. About Lužická Serbs and Danubian Serbs I can not say - they are too different lineage

    http://pereformat.ru/2013/10/kolybel...j-civilizacii/




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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b2a1a2*- I-A7358
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1b

    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    You belong to White Croatian branch..

    http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

    Mutation of I-S17250 has a source in southern Poland, there are and his older mutations..

    In 2010 has Ken Nordtvedt argued that I-L69.2 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion. According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE. In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I-L69.2 is not older than 2,800 years. In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I-L69.2 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula..

    So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
    originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
    extreme western Ukraine. That pattern may change with more sampling, of
    course Date: 20 May 2014..

    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-05/1400615460
    I am Dinaric North but tested S17250+ both at BigY and YSEQ.
    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    https://web.archive.org/web/20110722...r%20Hg%20I.pdf


    Another haplotype among Croats R1a Z280 CTS3402 tipe also has a high frequency in southern Poland but for now I do not know source of the same .... probably is in southern Poland but it is yet to be determined.

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...5UvaRd3c&hl=en


    Russian geneticist I. Rozhansky says:
    10/18/2013
    The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian Mountains to the Adriatic are really allied nations. About Lužická Serbs and Danubian Serbs I can not say - they are too different lineage

    http://pereformat.ru/2013/10/kolybel...j-civilizacii/



    They have discovered ancient I2a in Bichon Switzerland that dates back to Upper Paleolithic recently. There are several Mesolithic I2a1b Metola. Look at the bottom of this page for the list of hunter/gatherer I2a discoveries. http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html On the section related to ethnicity you can see where my ancestery as of the early 1800's is located.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singingfalls View Post
    I am Dinaric North but tested S17250+ both at BigY and YSEQ.
    So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
    originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
    extreme western Ukraine
    Negative for mutation S17250 are older mutations that have source in southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine... Where are grandfathers and fathers must be and sons...therefore mutations S17250 has same source in this area and may be linked to White Croats who later became Poles, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, etc...

    I mean people with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 and his later mutations..

    http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tr...r%20Hg%20I.pdf

    The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian
    Here is not talk about ancient I2a1b haplotype becouse before 4 or 5 years this haplotype officially represents part of the Croatian population...

    I2a1b L178/S328, M423



    http://isogg.org/tree/2012/ISOGG_HapgrpI12.html



    This I only specify if we misunderstood .. greetings

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    Negative for mutation S17250 are older mutations that have source in southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine... Where are grandfathers and fathers must be and sons...therefore mutations S17250 has same source in this area and may be linked to White Croats who later became Poles, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, etc...

    I mean people with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 and his later mutations..

    http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tr...r%20Hg%20I.pdf



    Here is not talk about ancient I2a1b haplotype becouse before 4 or 5 years this haplotype officially represents part of the Croatian population...

    I2a1b L178/S328, M423



    http://isogg.org/tree/2012/ISOGG_HapgrpI12.html



    This I only specify if we misunderstood .. greetings
    http://www.libraryofsocialscience.co...nd-the-nation/

    The violent ethnic nationalisms which replaced Yugoslavia’s communalist ethos of bratstvo i jedinstvo (‘brotherhood and unity’) when, in 1991, the Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia fragmented into its constitutive republics took observers by surprise, and the bloody ethnic warfare that has continued to rage in the territories of Former Yugoslavia since that time has substituted trepidation for the enthusiasm with which most Europeans greeted the collapse of communist hegemony in Eastern Europe. The character of the nationalisms of Former Yugoslavia furthermore challenges the optimism with which theorists of nationalism such as Eric Hobsbawm heralded the demise of a phenomenon they believed—in the light of the developing global economy—could only be seen as atavistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    http://www.libraryofsocialscience.co...nd-the-nation/

    The violent ethnic nationalisms which replaced Yugoslavia’s communalist ethos of bratstvo i jedinstvo (‘brotherhood and unity’) when, in 1991, the Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia fragmented into its constitutive republics took observers by surprise, and the bloody ethnic warfare that has continued to rage in the territories of Former Yugoslavia since that time has substituted trepidation for the enthusiasm with which most Europeans greeted the collapse of communist hegemony in Eastern Europe. The character of the nationalisms of Former Yugoslavia furthermore challenges the optimism with which theorists of nationalism such as Eric Hobsbawm heralded the demise of a phenomenon they believed—in the light of the developing global economy—could only be seen as atavistic.
    Genetics is undeniable .. If I from Croatia with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 go to Germany and there have a family, my sons and grandchildren after 200 years will be Germans but they are not changed genes and Croatian genetic ancestry..

    Today Croats have a minimum of 10% of the Wallachian gene and possibly up to 24% ... Whether I am a nationalist, chauvinist or xenophobe would not able change fact that today's Croats are part of Albanian Vlach origin..

    With genes there is not kidding, they are telling truth 100% whether I like it or not..

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b2a1a2*- I-A7358
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1b

    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by singingfalls View Post
    I am familiar with it, thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    Genetics is undeniable .. If I from Croatia with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 go to Germany and there have a family, my sons and grandchildren after 200 years will be Germans but they are not changed genes and Croatian genetic ancestry..

    Today Croats have a minimum of 10% of the Wallachian gene and possibly up to 24% ... Whether I am a nationalist, chauvinist or xenophobe would not able change fact that today's Croats are part of Albanian Vlach origin..

    With genes there is not kidding, they are telling truth 100% whether I like it or not..
    Show me please some Croat,Vlach,Serb,Alban,Illir .....aDNA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    Show me please some Croat,Vlach,Serb,Alban,Illir .....aDNA!
    I can not prove it but I doubt for E1b V13, I am not familiar with specific types E1b V13 in Albanians therefore can not claim 100%..

    I doubt and in R1b and J2 types because they are at epicenter in Albanians, and Croatia is not far away...This is logic, and there are records of arrival Vlachs in Croatia

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    I can not prove it but I doubt for E1b V13, I am not familiar with specific types E1b V13 in Albanians therefore can not claim 100%..

    I doubt and in R1b and J2 types because they are at epicenter in Albanians, and Croatia is not far away...This is logic, and there are records of arrival Vlachs in Croatia
    We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
    Modern distribution says nothing about that.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
    Modern distribution says nothing about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
    Modern distribution says nothing about that.
    Agreed but these chaps were I2a1b:
    Loschbour, Heffingen, Luxembourg I2a1b Mesolithic
    Motala, Sweden 3 I2a1b Mesolithic
    Motala, Sweden 12 I2a1b Mesolithic
    Long before the founder effect in Southern Western Europe correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
    Modern distribution says nothing about that.
    What I2a1b has to do with Croats.. Croats belong to branch I2a1b2a1a S17250...

    I2a1b is old about 13,000 years when Croats do not exist..

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    I am I2a1b2a1a2 (Y4882) just down stream fromS17250 but ftdna does not show any ethnic relationship to Croatia only Poland.

    http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/ethnic_ftdna.jpg
    Here is what I put together regarding my work. It seemed to me that my ancestors and more related to the Vandals (Vistula region.)

    http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html
    Last edited by singingfalls; 10-02-16 at 18:45. Reason: Additional info.

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    Long time ago ancestor of today's Croats was in the Sweden, before that he was in Asia Minor and before that in Africa....what this have to do with 1,500 years ago when the Croats are first mentioned and with southern Poland..
    Last edited by hrvat22; 10-02-16 at 21:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singingfalls View Post
    I am I2a1b2a1a2 (Y4882) just down stream fromS17250 but ftdna does not show any ethnic relationship to Croatia only Poland.

    http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/ethnic_ftdna.jpg
    Here is what I put together regarding my work. It seemed to me that my ancestors and more related to the Vandals (Vistula region.)

    http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html
    Administrator of I2a haplogroup..

    Even though there are not so many results for the new SNPs for people from Croatia and Serbia, many of these people belong to the "Dinaric-South" group as defined by STRs and I think most of "Dinaric-South" will belong to what our project calls the I-Z16983/A356 group



    http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

    I2a1b2a1a S17250 is father of I-S17250 *, I-Y5596, I-Z16983, I-Y488 ..

    I2a1b2a1a S17250 has a source in southeastern Poland and western Ukraine..


    Byzantine Emperor Porfirogenetus 10th century


    6th century
    Croats, who now live in the region of Dalmatia are descended from the unbaptized Croats, also called White, who live behind the Turks (Hungarians), and in the neighborhood of the Frankish and Slavic neighbors have unbaptized Serbs. ,, Croats "in the Slavic language means:,, those who have a lot of land."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Croats

    If I2a1b2a1a S17250 is father of Croatian branch I-Z16983 then S17250 is White Croatian origin and mutations I-S17250 *, I-Y5596, I-Z16983, I-Y488 in Europe are descendants of White Croatians ...


    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...x?section=ymap

    It should be logic

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    Hello, Ive done my 37 marker DNA test.
    I am I2a1, predicted 17250+.
    Now I am gong to do SNP Z16983 and A5913. Any other sugestion ?

    My origin: Herzegovina, Croat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by braxinjo View Post
    Hello, Ive done my 37 marker DNA test.
    I am I2a1, predicted 17250+.
    Now I am gong to do SNP Z16983 and A5913. Any other sugestion ?

    My origin: Herzegovina, Croat.
    You have here an experimental genetic tree so you can see where you belong when results begin to arrive..

    http://yfull.com/tree/I2/

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    what doese mean * , Z16983*

    and sings >

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    Quote Originally Posted by braxinjo View Post
    what doese mean * , Z16983*

    and sings >

    I do not know exactly but when there are two mutations with same name then comes the star...

    Z16983 is main branch and Z16983 *, I-Y19359, I-Y6651 are mutations..

    There is a map with I2a, so you look for mutations that exist in Herzegovina so you know on which mutation to test

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...x?section=ymap

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    Quote Originally Posted by braxinjo View Post
    what doese mean * , Z16983*

    and sings >
    It means there is a strong indication that your terminal SNP is not yet established. It means there is most likely another subclade you belong to that is not officially acknowledged as of yet.

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    So the plot thickens. FTDNA has changed by Haplogroup/SNP page to reflect a downstream subclade that I share with one other person (Polish) whose data is not public. Here is a composite image of the tree. Select the image to see it at a higher resolution:

    ftdna_tree_02292016.jpg
    The date of the MRCA is probably 1500 years ago.

    YSEQ has a test if any of you folks downstream of I2a _ I-Y4882 are interested.

    http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php...c9c049f5ef2a46

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    New YSEQ I2a M423 panel available. Info here: http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html#ydna Image if the tree available here: http://www.singingfalls.com/images/d...M423_panel.jpg

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