I2a I-4882 new subclade A7358

singingfalls

singingfalls

Wanderer
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Ethnic group
Polish
Y-DNA haplogroup
I2a1b2a1a2*- I-A7358
mtDNA haplogroup
T1a1b
So there has been discovered an ancient subclade match for me. It is down stream from I-4882 and associated with novel snp 19468160. It is named A7358 and can be tested at YSEQ.NET under that name. I have found a match at Poznan Poland. It is an old clade (2000 yrs) but exciting for me none the less. It is still not recognized at ISOGG or YFULL.
 
You are unique.
 
You belong to White Croatian branch..

http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

Mutation of I-S17250 has a source in southern Poland, there are and his older mutations..

In 2010 has Ken Nordtvedt argued that I-L69.2 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion. According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE. In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I-L69.2 is not older than 2,800 years. In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I-L69.2 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula..

So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
extreme western Ukraine. That pattern may change with more sampling, of
course Date: 20 May 2014..

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2014-05/1400615460

..

https://web.archive.org/web/2011072...dt.home.bresnan.net/Tree and Map for Hg I.pdf


Another haplotype among Croats R1a Z280 CTS3402 tipe also has a high frequency in southern Poland but for now I do not know source of the same .... probably is in southern Poland but it is yet to be determined.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zCFuZT9R8rxg.krb35UvaRd3c&hl=en


Russian geneticist I. Rozhansky says:
10/18/2013
The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian Mountains to the Adriatic are really allied nations. About Lužická Serbs and Danubian Serbs I can not say - they are too different lineage

http://pereformat.ru/2013/10/kolybel-evropejskoj-civilizacii/



 
hrvat22 said:
You belong to White Croatian branch..

http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

Mutation of I-S17250 has a source in southern Poland, there are and his older mutations..

In 2010 has Ken Nordtvedt argued that I-L69.2 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion. According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE. In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I-L69.2 is not older than 2,800 years. In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I-L69.2 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula..

So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
extreme western Ukraine. That pattern may change with more sampling, of
course Date: 20 May 2014..

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2014-05/1400615460
Click to expand...

I am Dinaric North but tested S17250+ both at BigY and YSEQ.
..
hrvat22 said:
https://web.archive.org/web/2011072...dt.home.bresnan.net/Tree and Map for Hg I.pdf


Another haplotype among Croats R1a Z280 CTS3402 tipe also has a high frequency in southern Poland but for now I do not know source of the same .... probably is in southern Poland but it is yet to be determined.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zCFuZT9R8rxg.krb35UvaRd3c&hl=en


Russian geneticist I. Rozhansky says:
10/18/2013
The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian Mountains to the Adriatic are really allied nations. About Lužická Serbs and Danubian Serbs I can not say - they are too different lineage

http://pereformat.ru/2013/10/kolybel-evropejskoj-civilizacii/
Click to expand...

They have discovered ancient I2a in Bichon Switzerland that dates back to Upper Paleolithic recently. There are several Mesolithic I2a1b Metola. Look at the bottom of this page for the list of hunter/gatherer I2a discoveries. http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html On the section related to ethnicity you can see where my ancestery as of the early 1800's is located.
 
singingfalls said:
I am Dinaric North but tested S17250+ both at BigY and YSEQ.
Click to expand...

So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
extreme western Ukraine
Click to expand...

Negative for mutation S17250 are older mutations that have source in southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine... Where are grandfathers and fathers must be and sons...therefore mutations S17250 has same source in this area and may be linked to White Croats who later became Poles, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, etc...

I mean people with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 and his later mutations..

http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tree and Map for Hg I.pdf

The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian
Click to expand...

Here is not talk about ancient I2a1b haplotype becouse before 4 or 5 years this haplotype officially represents part of the Croatian population...

I2a1b L178/S328, M423



http://isogg.org/tree/2012/ISOGG_HapgrpI12.html



This I only specify if we misunderstood .. greetings
 
hrvat22 said:
Negative for mutation S17250 are older mutations that have source in southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine... Where are grandfathers and fathers must be and sons...therefore mutations S17250 has same source in this area and may be linked to White Croats who later became Poles, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, etc...

I mean people with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 and his later mutations..

http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tree and Map for Hg I.pdf



Here is not talk about ancient I2a1b haplotype becouse before 4 or 5 years this haplotype officially represents part of the Croatian population...

I2a1b L178/S328, M423



http://isogg.org/tree/2012/ISOGG_HapgrpI12.html



This I only specify if we misunderstood .. greetings
Click to expand...

http://www.libraryofsocialscience.com/ideologies/docs/xenophobia-fantasy-and-the-nation/

The violent ethnic nationalisms which replaced Yugoslavia’s communalist ethos of bratstvo i jedinstvo (‘brotherhood and unity’) when, in 1991, the Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia fragmented into its constitutive republics took observers by surprise, and the bloody ethnic warfare that has continued to rage in the territories of Former Yugoslavia since that time has substituted trepidation for the enthusiasm with which most Europeans greeted the collapse of communist hegemony in Eastern Europe. The character of the nationalisms of Former Yugoslavia furthermore challenges the optimism with which theorists of nationalism such as Eric Hobsbawm heralded the demise of a phenomenon they believed—in the light of the developing global economy—could only be seen as atavistic.
 
gyms said:
http://www.libraryofsocialscience.com/ideologies/docs/xenophobia-fantasy-and-the-nation/

The violent ethnic nationalisms which replaced Yugoslavia’s communalist ethos of bratstvo i jedinstvo (‘brotherhood and unity’) when, in 1991, the Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia fragmented into its constitutive republics took observers by surprise, and the bloody ethnic warfare that has continued to rage in the territories of Former Yugoslavia since that time has substituted trepidation for the enthusiasm with which most Europeans greeted the collapse of communist hegemony in Eastern Europe. The character of the nationalisms of Former Yugoslavia furthermore challenges the optimism with which theorists of nationalism such as Eric Hobsbawm heralded the demise of a phenomenon they believed—in the light of the developing global economy—could only be seen as atavistic.
Click to expand...

Genetics is undeniable .. If I from Croatia with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 go to Germany and there have a family, my sons and grandchildren after 200 years will be Germans but they are not changed genes and Croatian genetic ancestry..

Today Croats have a minimum of 10% of the Wallachian gene and possibly up to 24% ... Whether I am a nationalist, chauvinist or xenophobe would not able change fact that today's Croats are part of Albanian Vlach origin..

With genes there is not kidding, they are telling truth 100% whether I like it or not..
 
hrvat22 said:
Genetics is undeniable .. If I from Croatia with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 go to Germany and there have a family, my sons and grandchildren after 200 years will be Germans but they are not changed genes and Croatian genetic ancestry..

Today Croats have a minimum of 10% of the Wallachian gene and possibly up to 24% ... Whether I am a nationalist, chauvinist or xenophobe would not able change fact that today's Croats are part of Albanian Vlach origin..

With genes there is not kidding, they are telling truth 100% whether I like it or not..
Click to expand...

Show me please some Croat,Vlach,Serb,Alban,Illir .....aDNA!
 
gyms said:
Show me please some Croat,Vlach,Serb,Alban,Illir .....aDNA!
Click to expand...

I can not prove it but I doubt for E1b V13, I am not familiar with specific types E1b V13 in Albanians therefore can not claim 100%..

I doubt and in R1b and J2 types because they are at epicenter in Albanians, and Croatia is not far away...This is logic, and there are records of arrival Vlachs in Croatia
 
hrvat22 said:
I can not prove it but I doubt for E1b V13, I am not familiar with specific types E1b V13 in Albanians therefore can not claim 100%..

I doubt and in R1b and J2 types because they are at epicenter in Albanians, and Croatia is not far away...This is logic, and there are records of arrival Vlachs in Croatia
Click to expand...

We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.
 
gyms said:
We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.
Click to expand...

gyms said:
We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.
Click to expand...
Agreed but these chaps were I2a1b:
Loschbour, Heffingen, Luxembourg I2a1b Mesolithic
Motala, Sweden 3 I2a1b Mesolithic
Motala, Sweden 12 I2a1b Mesolithic
Long before the founder effect in Southern Western Europe correct?
 
gyms said:
We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.
Click to expand...

What I2a1b has to do with Croats.. Croats belong to branch I2a1b2a1a S17250...

I2a1b is old about 13,000 years when Croats do not exist..
 
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singingfalls said:
I am I2a1b2a1a2 (Y4882) just down stream fromS17250 but ftdna does not show any ethnic relationship to Croatia only Poland.

http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/ethnic_ftdna.jpg Here is what I put together regarding my work. It seemed to me that my ancestors and more related to the Vandals (Vistula region.)

http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html
Click to expand...

Administrator of I2a haplogroup..

Even though there are not so many results for the new SNPs for people from Croatia and Serbia, many of these people belong to the "Dinaric-South" group as defined by STRs and I think most of "Dinaric-South" will belong to what our project calls the I-Z16983/A356 group



http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

I2a1b2a1a S17250 is father of I-S17250 *, I-Y5596, I-Z16983, I-Y488 ..

I2a1b2a1a S17250 has a source in southeastern Poland and western Ukraine..


Byzantine Emperor Porfirogenetus 10th century


6th century
Croats, who now live in the region of Dalmatia are descended from the unbaptized Croats, also called White, who live behind the Turks (Hungarians), and in the neighborhood of the Frankish and Slavic neighbors have unbaptized Serbs. ,, Croats "in the Slavic language means:,, those who have a lot of land."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Croats

If I2a1b2a1a S17250 is father of Croatian branch I-Z16983 then S17250 is White Croatian origin and mutations I-S17250 *, I-Y5596, I-Z16983, I-Y488 in Europe are descendants of White Croatians ...


https://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ymap

It should be logic
 
Hello, Ive done my 37 marker DNA test.
I am I2a1, predicted 17250+.
Now I am gong to do SNP Z16983 and A5913. Any other sugestion ?

My origin: Herzegovina, Croat.
 
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