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Thread: Teaser: EEF was 90% Anatolian

  1. #101
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    Moesan, this is what the new paper has to say:
    "These results support hypothesis of a common ancestral population of EEF prior to their dispersal along distinct inland/central European and coastal/Mediterranean routes."
    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...16477.full.pdf

    This is coming not only from Mathieson and Lazaridis. It's also coming from Reich, Pinhasi and Haak. I don't know how that squares with the anthropology, but I think Pinhasi must know what he's written before and what is being proposed now. I'm not going to argue with it.

    I know that modern Armenians are different from Bronze Age Armenians. Neolithic "Armenians" might be different yet. All I know is that based on their statistics, the same people who are analyzing ancient Caucasus samples believe that the population that mixed with the EHG to form the Yamnaya and other steppe groups was 50% modern Armenian like. That leads me to believe that they think the original admixing population, whatever language it spoke, and whatever yDna it carried, was more "southern" than Bronze Age Armenians or Georgians.

    I might be wrong, of course. Or they might change their position. We'll see what they say when they revisit the issue when they release the Caucasus genomes and their analysis.





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  2. #102
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Something important to remember is: There's an assumption among many posters that Bell Beaker, Unetice, Corded Ware, Sintashta, Andronovo were basically the same as Northern Europeans. This isn't the case. All of them had more ANE-affinity than all Northern Europeans except maybe Balts. Davidski has noted that they're all closest to Balts, and then next NE Euros, Scandinavians, and Irish: maybe because those people are at the fringe and more isolated. Andronovo and Corded Ware in particular had a lot of ANE, being maybe 80% Yamnaya. Meaning all modern Northern Europeans have more non-Steppe ancestry than people who lived in their lands 4,000-4,500 years ago.

    West Germans for example have lots of extra non-Steppe ancestry. In D-stats they're not significantly closer to Bell Beaker than to Middle Neolithic. I suspect most is EEF-derived but we can't assume. Lots can happen in 4,000 years it doesn't stay stagnant.

    It's kind of the same situation as with Bronze age Armenians and modern Armenians. There's kind of continuation but slight differences. And I've read ethnic posters trying to link their ethnic/linguistic group to some Late Neolithic culture. This is crazy. There's been lots of movement of people since circa 2500 BC. We basically have a pure Indo Iranian genome in Hungary at 900 BC. Andronovo-descendants moved into Europe and brought the Chariot and Iron. In the oldest written records we see the primary modern languages: Germanic and Slavic expanded after 0AD. There's tons of mixing that happened. Then there's the Great Migration era at the end of the Roman empire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greying Wanderer View Post
    Weighted more towards Central Asia imo like a more easterly version of I.
    They found archaic hg. IJ* on the Iranian Plateau. The most diverse area of J is in Kurdistan. You can find there all archaic J* subgroups. J1 was born somewhere in the Middle East, J2a was born on the Iranian Plateau. So J is definitely from West Asia. Has nothing to do with the Steppes.When R1a came from the Iranian Plateau and migrated into Europe hg. J went also with those folks.For me it’s a definitive prove that R1a is from the Iranian Plateau!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    They found archaic hg. IJ* on the Iranian Plateau. The most diverse area of J is in Kurdistan. You can find there all archaic J* subgroups. J1 was born somewhere in the Middle East, J2a was born on the Iranian Plateau. So J is definitely from West Asia. Has nothing to do with the Steppes.When R1a came from the Iranian Plateau and migrated into Europe hg. J went also with those folks.For me it’s a definitive prove that R1a is from the Iranian Plateau!
    Doesn't mean J could have wandered outside of West Asia like 20,000 years ago. And the J isn't evidence R1a is from West Asia. Besides modern R1a is R1a1a1-M417. So wherever M417 is from is where 99% of modern R1a is from. I tend to think it's from EHG, however there's plenty of room for it to be from teal. If Teal got the EHGs out of a depressing primitive lifestyle, wouldn't they be the elites and patriarchs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Doesn't mean J could have wandered outside of West Asia like 20,000 years ago. And the J isn't evidence R1a is from West Asia. Besides modern R1a is R1a1a1-M417. So wherever M417 is from is where 99% of modern R1a is from. I tend to think it's from EHG, however there's plenty of room for it to be from teal. If Teal got the EHGs out of a depressing primitive lifestyle, wouldn't they be the elites and patriarchs?
    No, that is to far for 1 person alone. He migrated with a big group. That type of R1a in Europe is very young and evolved very recent, mostly evolved from Z282. And it not diverse and that's an indication that there was a founder effect. Founder effects in that AREA makes sense because those areas were sparsely populated, because of the cold climate and difficult conditions.

    The folks from West Asia stared to migrated into Europe again AFTER The last glacial period, the so called Weichselian ice age 11000 years ago. Before that Europe was covered by ice. Only native haplogroups lived there, like Nordic N1c1. After the last ice age R1a was maybe one of the first that migrated into Europe together with J.

    Didn't you learn about the Weichselian ice age at school? This is a very basic knowledge. 20,000 years ago there was ice age in Europe. Nobody in West Asia would be that crazy to move into the ice and start a new life, that would be suicide!


    Folks from West Asia started to migrate into Europe after the ice sheets went to melt down and that happened AFTER Weichselian ice age, MAX 11000 years ago AND West Asian R1a is MORE that 11000 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    They found archaic hg. IJ* on the Iranian Plateau. The most diverse area of J is in Kurdistan. You can find there all archaic J* subgroups. J1 was born somewhere in the Middle East, J2a was born on the Iranian Plateau. So J is definitely from West Asia. Has nothing to do with the Steppes.When R1a came from the Iranian Plateau and migrated into Europe hg. J went also with those folks.For me it’s a definitive prove that R1a is from the Iranian Plateau!
    I'm not saying steppe, I'm thinking hill country along the southern edge of the steppe.

    http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb...4-5806C32A.jpg

    pure guess though so could be wrong

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