Part 2: 8,000 years of Natural Selection in Europe.

LoL Eskimos! Anyway only J and R1a are native of Karelia. I dunno about other parts of NW Russia.
 
Don't think so. NortheWest Russia, Scandinavia, Balitcs were always home of people like Saami, Eskimos etc. Native peope of Northern Europe were Finno-Ugric, Uralic related to Saami and were Saami-like folks.
Some good decades or even centuries of research are keeping us from such statements :)
 
LoL Eskimos! Anyway only J and R1a are native of Karelia. I dunno about other parts of NW Russia.
You're ignoring the biggest part of human history. Native people of Northern Europe should be protected. There were enough genocides against Saami and other Finno-Ugric and Uralic folks in Northern Europe. I feel sorry for the very first native European folks. After many genocides now people are denying that their race was the first race in Europe and they are denying their very existance. Shame on YOU !

Hg. J & R1a are more native to Mars than to Karelia.



 
You're ignoring the biggest part of human history. Native people of Northern Europe should be protected. There were enough genocides against Saami and other Finno-Ugric and Uralic folks in Northern Europe. I feel sorry for the very first native European folks. After many genocides now people are denying that their race was the first race in Europe and they are denying their existance.

Hg. J & R1a is more native to Mars than to Karelia.




You're on a roll now you gotta keep it going.

In my opinion G2a is native to Karelia also.
 
I don't know much about diluting of auDNA, all I'm sure about is that original R1a and even original R1a-Z93 was heavily Caucaso-Gedrosian, NorthWest Russia is home for N1c1 and not R1a at all. There is no evidence for that. N1c1 is a Nordic haplogroup.

East European admixture in Siberia and Mongolia is from the assimilated Slavic (Russian) people. How many times Mongoloid people raided Eastern Europe and took (mostly female) prisoners with them?

The possibility is huge that R1a entered Europe from the Iranian Plateau via Turkmenistan/Kazakhstan (east of the Caspian Sea).

The earliest R1a carrier we've seen, from Mesolithic Karelia, had negligible near-eastern ancestry.
The earliest M417(ancestral to Z93) so far was found in eastern Europe.

*Z93(descended from M417, which we know Corded Ware had) is in eastern Europe, in very small numbers, almost as if it originated there and then left en masse, which would make sense since it's downstream clades are found to the east of this area.
No *Z93 has been found in south or central Asia.

Sintashta(who had Z93 and Z94) did not get their large amounts of western(WHG and EEF) ancestry from assimilated Slavs.
If Z93 had been moving from east to west, instead of the other way around, the Sintashta folks wouldn't look like Belarusians.

So it's obvious that you don't care about facts, your fantasy comes first.
 
The earliest R1a carrier we've seen, from Mesolithic Karelia, had negligible near-eastern ancestry.
The earliest M417(ancestral to Z93) so far was found in eastern Europe.

*Z93(descended from M417, which we know Corded Ware had) is in eastern Europe, in very small numbers, almost as if it originated there and then left en masse, which would make sense since it's downstream clades are found to the east of this area.
No *Z93 has been found in south or central Asia.

Sintashta(who had Z93 and Z94) did not get their large amounts of western(WHG and EEF) ancestry from assimilated Slavs.
If Z93 had been moving from east to west, instead of the other way around, the Sintashta folks wouldn't look like Belarusians.

So it's obvious that you don't care about facts, your fantasy comes first.
You definitely missed the last academic paper on R1a.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24667786


If you research the ancient Persian or ancient Media R1a-Z93 it would have mostly West Asian ancestry.

If you will reaserch R1a around BMAC it wil be mostly West Asian. Its all about where you find that haplogroup. They found hg. J in Kareila. It had no West Asian ancetry, while we all know that hg. J is native to West Asia.


There is more archaic *Z93 in modern West Asian population than elsewhere. Z94 was evolved from Z93 on Iranian Plateau and not in Europe.


If R1a came from Europe it would also take real Euro haplogroups, like I1, N1c1 etc., with them. It was not the case. So, that's bull.



Haplogroup+R1a+Eastern+Europe.png






 
Also, I have the feeling that some people desperately like too connect them to te ancient Aryans who invaded India.

Folks that are not even closely related to Z94. Z94 has NOTHING to do with Europe. It was born and evolved OUTSIDE Europe at the first place.


Aryans were J2a, G, R1a-Z94, R2 & T etc. folks. Nothing to do with Europe. They were Iranid Caucaso-Gedrosia folks from BMAC. They spoke Iranic and not Slavic or something, lol. They had an Iranic culture and not a Slavic culture, etc..
 
There archaic R1a-M198, the ancestor of Z93, is frequent in even the modernday West Asian population, while R1a-M198 is almost absent in Europe.


It's ALL about R1a-M198
 
R1a-M198 is determinative where Z93 or even Z283 is from.

The most basic and archaic R1a-M198 is in West Asia. Game, set, match ..












http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24667786


http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2014/03/underhill-et-al-2014.html



 
Also, I have the feeling that some people desperately like too connect them to te ancient Aryans who invaded India.

Folks that are not even closely related to Z94. Z94 has NOTHING to do with Europe. It was born and evolved OUTSIDE Europe at the first place.


Aryans were J2a, G, R1a-Z94, R2 & T etc. folks. Nothing to do with Europe. They were Iranid Caucaso-Gedrosia folks from BMAC. They spoke Iranic and not Slavic or something, lol. They had an Iranic culture and not a Slavic culture, etc..

Kind of like how you desperately(see, I can type in boldface too!) want your own ethnic group to be the center of the entire human species?

You see that thing you do? The thing where you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being biased and dogmatic, all the time? There's a name for that in psychology, it's called projection. And it's really awkward to watch.

Your goofy chart just tells us what we already knew, we're all familiar with the modern day distribution of Z93.
We're talking about where it originated, and how it spread, not where it is today.

Once again, if Sintashta had gotten it's Z93 from BMAC, they wouldn't look like a cross between Belarusians and Estonians, and obviously Poltavka didn't get it's Z93 from BMAC, unless BMAC had time machines. Maybe we should test Dr. Who's DNA, if he's Z93 it might help your case.

You haven't answered a single point that's been put to you with anything but repetitive drivel.

And finally, you were the one who said that anyone in Siberia with east European admixture must have gotten it from Slavs.
My point was that, since there were no "Slavs" as such in 2200 BCE, that idea obviously wouldn't explain Sintashta, who were very literally Z93-bearing immigrants from eastern Europe, whether you like it or not.
 
Kind of like how you desperately(see, I can type in boldface too!) want your own ethnic group to be the center of the entire human species?

You see that thing you do? The thing where you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being biased and dogmatic, all the time? There's a name for that in psychology, it's called projection. And it's really awkward to watch.

Your goofy chart just tells us what we already knew, we're all familiar with the modern day distribution of Z93.
We're talking about where it originated, and how it spread, not where it is today.

Once again, if Sintashta had gotten it's Z93 from BMAC, they wouldn't look like a cross between Belarusians and Estonians, and obviously Poltavka didn't get it's Z93 from BMAC, unless BMAC had time machines. Maybe we should test Dr. Who's DNA, if he's Z93 it might help your case.

You haven't answered a single point that's been put to you with anything but repetitive drivel.

And finally, you were the one who said that anyone in Siberia with east European admixture must have gotten it from Slavs.
My point was that, since there were no "Slavs" as such in 2200 BCE, that idea obviously wouldn't explain Sintashta, who were very literally Z93-bearing immigrants from eastern Europe, whether you like it or not.
I wrote Eastern European and meant ancestors of Slavic folks.

And what are you talking about? R1a in Sintashta can be an assimilated fella whom ancestors came from BMAC. R1a in Shistasha proofs nothing. This very fact doesn't debunk the fact that R1a-Z93 and R1a-M198 are from the Iranian Plateau. Shistasha isn't directly connected with the Iranian Plateau at the first place. It was not even Iranid. It's more further north of it. And this Shistasha, Poltavka etc. nonsense has nothing to do with R1a-M198. If they find Z93 or Z94 around BMAC and it will not have West Asian roots, then I would argue with you. But then again, that will NEVER happen.


Once AGAIN, it's all about R1a-M198 ancestor of R1a-Z93 !
 
Maciamo must be inhaling some paint fumes or something. His migration route theories arent crazy, but this theories about natural selection of y-chromosomes are up there with the lizard people controlling world governments.
 
Maciamo must be inhaling some paint fumes or something. His migration route theories arent crazy, but this theories about natural selection of y-chromosomes are up there with the lizard people controlling world governments.

It's a bit heavy handed even for a chroll account. All those bold faces and exclamation points.

And we do control all governments.
 
Maciamo must be inhaling some paint fumes or something. His migration route theories arent crazy, but this theories about natural selection of y-chromosomes are up there with the lizard people controlling world governments.

He made those maps 5 years ago and is mostly correct!! Give him a break.
 
What will it take to settle this? I think I've forgotten what the argument is. PIE used to be a historical linguistic definition. In these threads it becomes where M269/L23 or M417 came from, regardless of anything else, which I understand, but it still distorts the issue.

Do we need L23's and M417's that are all teal in Maykop? Or conversley G2a's and J's that are all teal? With the evidence so far one would have to conclude, at this juncture, that it's more likely that the IE R1a and R1b males lines originated on the steppe, and yet all I see is that it's "still possible" that M417/L23/M269 originate in West Asia.

We already have all EHG R1b and R1a. We have R1b1 and R1a1 together on the steppe (60/40 EHG/Teal or something like that) in a horizon that most archaeologist attribute as one of the, if not the predecessor to Yamnaya (I'll spare everyone on this topic but it's crazy all of the archaeology that's ignored in these "PIE" arguments), both of which are ancestral to L23/M269 and M417, respectively. And yet all I'm seeing is talk about how they're "basal" and likely "dead ends". Doesn't matter.

In actual Yamnaya sites we have M269 and Z2103 with about 40% teal, both of which lineages are descended from older lines that have also been found in ancient samples on the steppe, the earliest of which are all EHG. And of course they have farmer mitochondrial lines.

I'm pretty sure teal as far as we know is still just a component of basal Eurasian. We don't even know if there ever was a population of all or nearly all teal and yet there's this strange hope for the all teal R1b's.

I get the fact that a ton of questions are unanswered, but with all the evidence one would have to leans towards a steppe origin for supposed PIE male lines. To me it looks a lot like denial of the data.

So what am I missing? I'm at work and I'm tired so I'm not ruling out mental disability.
 
I don't know much about diluting of auDNA, all I'm sure about is that original R1a and even original R1a-Z93 was heavily Caucaso-Gedrosian, NorthWest Russia is home for N1c1 and not R1a at all. There is no evidence for that. N1c1 is a Nordic haplogroup.

East European admixture in Siberia and Mongolia is from the assimilated Slavic (Russian) people. How many times Mongoloid people raided Eastern Europe and took (mostly female) prisoners with them?

The possibility is huge that R1a entered Europe from the Iranian Plateau via Turkmenistan/Kazakhstan (east of the Caspian Sea).

Then why hasn't N1c been found in Mesolithic Russia, why is it all R1a1, R1b1, J, and Q1a? And it unlogical to put personalities to prehistoric people groups. You're treating N1c1, etc. as better than other Euro haplogroups and giving it an image of the original the native. It's not that simple.

Anyways, the reason you say N1c1 is the only original Y DNA of NE Europe, is because you don't want anything in West Asia to have a European origin. You want Europeans to either be innocent natives who never migrated out of Europe or from West Asians. Everything doesn't go from West Asia>Europe. And all early human technological achievements didn't come from West Asia.

West Asia isn't the source of everything. In the past no one had world maps and when they gradually moved from one location to another(there was very rarelly ever transcontinental migrations), they could potentially go in any direction, Europe doesn't always have to be on the receiving end. There's European ancestry in West and SC Asia. Actually Bronze age East Europeans fit as the best West Eurasian proxy ancestors for SC Asians.

I can tell you're taking Pre-History genetics to a personal level. That's normal I used to do it. I wanted everything to be from Germany(inclu. IEs) at first and tricked myself into thinking that. And you need to grow up like I did. It doesn't make your people(Kurds) inferior if they have European ancestry or if their language is ultimately from Europe. No one was raciest in the Bronze age. They had a small world view, restricted to their small regions. Indo Iranians were already heavily admixed by the time they made it to Iran and Iraq anyways.
 

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