Question about the relation of Tarim Mummies and Tocharians.

[halfalp]

Hi,

For about a certain time, i'm thinking on the point that R1a - blond hair and satem languages + plus R1b red hair and centum languages seems to have a good continuity, one of the point who escape at that theory is the Tarim Mummies than a lot of person relate to the Tocharians. I've learn couple of days ago, an article of the R1b-M269 haplogroup found in Afanasevo culture.

I can't put a link but its easily find on google.

I've also read about a long time ago, an article who talk about an ancient chinese royal delegate or monk, who relate the existence in chinese Gansu province and not in Tarim basin of red heared and green eyed barbarians. Of what i know the sample of tocharians language found in xianjang date of the middle-age.

So i'm thinking, are we really sur that tarim mummies were not just Scythians related people, because we know that city-state of east tarim basin were more sedentare iranians because the toponymy ( kashgar, .

Plus, some turkish people like turkmens and uygur seems to have a little of R1b and of what i know of reconstructed tocharians language like some baltic language are few more grammatical case coexistence with agglutinate uralic language who can be explain that tocharian are an pigdin of indo-european dialect and proto-turco-mongol agglutinate dialect or than tocharian can be a royal vehicular language ( langue de préstige ) while autochtons turkish people continues to talk their native language.

Give me your returns. Thank You and pleasure.

[oriental]

The Tocharians and Uyghurs are different people. Tocharians used Tartan patterns in their clothing so the Scots may have been part of this group of people in ancient times. It is intriguing as Scots are predominantly R1b. The Tocharians were mostly R1a around 2000 BC while Uyghurs came into the area around the 12th century. Uyghurs are a mixed group and have R1b. With nomadic people it hard to give accurate history as they sought grass for their horses, goats and sheep. cCentral Asia is very large and certainly a lot of conflict and merging. It is a very fluid situation.

[epoch]

Plus, some turkish people like turkmens and uygur seems to have a little of R1b and of what i know of reconstructed tocharians language like some baltic language are few more grammatical case coexistence with agglutinate uralic language who can be explain that tocharian are an pigdin of indo-european dialect and proto-turco-mongol agglutinate dialect or than tocharian can be a royal vehicular language ( langue de préstige ) while autochtons turkish people continues to talk their native language.

Care to provide a link on that? I'm interested.

[halfalp]

Hi, i know that tocharians and uyghurs are different people, but the proximity and the fact that uyghur certainly assimilate tocharians when they came in the tarim basin explain the r1b, the tartan can be explain of an cultural exchange between east xianjiang and gansu province tocharians people with west xianjiang scythians people, tartan are a celtic cultural stuff, celts wher r1b and red head for mostly just like tocharians and the centum language correlation. And we are not sur that mummies of tarim, tartan people were R1a iranic people.

There is clearly enough correlations between R1b, redhead people and centum language and R1a blondhead and satem language. But maybe some people just want to eternaly search a reason of things.

I cant put a link because i dont have enough message, but juste write " Haplogroups discovered Afanesevo culture or R1b Afanasevo culture ".

[oriental]

The Tarim Basin mummies were tested R1a1, no R1b. Climate change may have caused the Tocharians to dwindle. The fact that they came from the west could mean they were somehow associated with Tajiks who probably controlled the Fergana fertile valley. They could all be the same people but the nomadic tribes began to developed their own languages and the settlers near the rivers formed their own culture.

This website deals with Central Asia and a good source of information. http://www.allempires.com/forum/

[halfalp]

I'm gonna say it again but... you clearly don't understand my point. For me, people are too focus on the correlation between tarim mummies and tocharian languages. I don't think that Tarim Mummies were tocharians maybe an melting pot of tocharians and iranic people but not clearly tocharians. The idea of the centum language in R1b and R1a population and the early mutation of satem is clearly not viable. R1a and R1b adaptated an middle east language maybe come with J2a, with 2 differents native language pré-caucasian like actual basque language can be for R1b and pré-uralic language for Satem, i say pré-uralic but i'm not sur on this point, i don't think that uralic languages cames with N haplogroups. So, my point is that Tocharians R1b from afanasevo, we also have to look that Turkish people or at least the proto-turkish people seems clearly be indo-europeans with native people, so maybe tocharians, tocharians language become an langue de préstige while native proto-turkish language was spoken by the majority of the population.