Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 76 to 88 of 88

Thread: Genetic History of Siberian and Northeastern European Populations

  1. #76
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,382
    Points
    47,218
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,218, Level: 67
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 1,132
    Overall activity: 54.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    That was the whole picture. Is there another full figure picture of him? Will I be embarrassed if I go looking for it?

    I think I'll pass. If full blood Hawaiians are any indication, he's typically Polynesian looking, and I'll leave it at that.
    If you find him, we might miss you for a couple of weeks over here :-(

  2. #77
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    29-01-14
    Posts
    157
    Points
    5,341
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,341, Level: 21
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 209
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    MtDNA haplogroup
    I5a

    Ethnic group
    Finnish
    Country: Finland



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Angela, look at Karelia HG, Samara HG and Motal HG at lower K levels: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/s...1/013433-1.pdf

    At K3-K8 Karelia HG has c. 30% of East Asian, Samara HG has slightly less and Motala HG may have c. 10%.

    @Alan, “So how on earth can ANE have anything close to do with modern EE ancestry?”

    I ask: how on earth can modern HAN ancestry have anything to do with ancient Native American ancestry?

    As for that European looking Karitiana, I would not say that for example Amazonian Piraha look European. In my opinion they look vaguely Melanesian (http://www.crystalinks.com/piraha.html)

  3. #78
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    arvistro's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-08-14
    Posts
    1,004
    Points
    13,128
    Level
    34
    Points: 13,128, Level: 34
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 222
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Country: Latvia



    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    At K3-K8 Karelia HG has c. 30% of East Asian, Samara HG has slightly less and Motala HG may have c. 10%.
    Wait the pinkish (or is it purple?, but definately not the yellow Han) thing that is about 25-30% in K4 and up is Amerindian? It peaks in Native Americans if I read that graph correctly.

  4. #79
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,615
    Points
    300,167
    Level
    100
    Points: 300,167, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Angela, look at Karelia HG, Samara HG and Motal HG at lower K levels: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/s...1/013433-1.pdf

    At K3-K8 Karelia HG has c. 30% of East Asian, Samara HG has slightly less and Motala HG may have c. 10%.

    @Alan, “So how on earth can ANE have anything close to do with modern EE ancestry?”

    I ask: how on earth can modern HAN ancestry have anything to do with ancient Native American ancestry?

    As for that European looking Karitiana, I would not say that for example Amazonian Piraha look European. In my opinion they look vaguely Melanesian (http://www.crystalinks.com/piraha.html)
    Kristiina, could you explain in more detail how you see it given the current state of our knowledge? I'd be very interested to hear it. (I totally agree about the South American Indians, fwiw. North American Plains Indians and also the Northeast North American Indians definitely have a different look. I think that they also carry high levels of mtDna X2. I don't know if the two things are connected.)


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  5. #80
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    29-01-14
    Posts
    157
    Points
    5,341
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,341, Level: 21
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 209
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    MtDNA haplogroup
    I5a

    Ethnic group
    Finnish
    Country: Finland



    @Arvistro "It peaks in Native Americans if I read that graph correctly."

    Sure! But aren't Native Americans ancient Northeast Asians that are said to have ENA? In any way, at K=3, which is the East Eurasian v. West Eurasian level, Karelia HG is 25% East Eurasian.

    At K=7 and K=8, East Asian of Karelian HG is divided in half between Arctic Eskimo ancestry and Amerindian ancestry.

  6. #81
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    arvistro's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-08-14
    Posts
    1,004
    Points
    13,128
    Level
    34
    Points: 13,128, Level: 34
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 222
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Country: Latvia



    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    @Arvistro "It peaks in Native Americans if I read that graph correctly."

    Sure! But aren't Native Americans ancient Northeast Asians that are said to have ENA? In any way, at K=3, which is the East Eurasian v. West Eurasian level, Karelia HG is 25% East Eurasian.

    At K=7 and K=8, East Asian of Karelian HG is divided in half between Arctic Eskimo ancestry and Amerindian ancestry.
    Kristiina, let's not mix everything. East Asian and Native American are two different things. East Asians are like 100% ENA, Native Americans are ENA + ANE. I was making a post telling how one grandpa of EHG was East Asian (or cooking grandma for that matter) only to realize it was actually Native American thing, which can be explained by shared ANE ancestry.

    _______________________
    At K=3, looks like ANE is more of a yellow (East Eurasian) thing than brown (West Eurasian) thing? I see no brown in Native Americans? When Loshbour is almost exclusively brown? Alan, what do you think? Are ANE indeed the closest to WHG? If so, why it comes as yellow here?

  7. #82
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    29-01-14
    Posts
    157
    Points
    5,341
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,341, Level: 21
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 209
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    MtDNA haplogroup
    I5a

    Ethnic group
    Finnish
    Country: Finland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Angela, in a way I am very excited about this American paleo-Melanesian theory and in the recent Ket paper there were exctiting haplotrees such as this:

    Han Papuan.jpg

    I do not know what is the current state of our knowledge but I recently wrote a comment that summarizes what I currently think about this East West issue: “When we look at the big picture, we see that yDNA K comes from the ENA area, so that could explain the ENA shift of Europeans. At 40 kya Near Easterners were genetically very far from Eurasians such as Ma1 and Ust Ishim, so I think that at that time there was a divide between Near East/North Africa and the rest of Eurasia. (http://s28.postimg.org/wuj44klpp/Kos...shim_MA1ls.png) (e.g. ASI is quite close to Ust Ishim)

    If Chinese researchers are correct in their claims that humans have an over 80 000 years long history in East Asia, ENA probably radiated to the west to a bigger extent than we now presume.

  8. #83
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    770
    Points
    7,659
    Level
    26
    Points: 7,659, Level: 26
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 491
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    That is true, we have Jomon like people who are East Eurasian but display Caucasoid features. But than this is why I don't understand why people are using some phsyical features in modern populations to pin point the origin of ANE. Why should ANE be East Eurasian just based on Mansi if on fst Distance and the origin tree ANE is brother to UHG/WHG?

    Where is the logic? But than if you seriously compare EE with ANE and EE without ANE a trend Caucasoid trend among the ANE admixed groups get's visible. I don't think this is coincidence. And I also don't think ANE reprsents Uber Caucasoid features just like I don't think WHG does (but ANE even slightly less) Just that I think they didn't look EE.

    This is why in the past I wrote that ANE probably looked like some Kalash individuals who display "pseudo" Amerindian featueres. At the end of the day Kalash have like 35-40% ANE. They have slightly less than Amerindians and Mansi but than their other part is mostly UHG like which is still closer to ANE than EE anyways. I don't know why they are often ignored in these kind of studies. And I bet my last money that ancient samples from the Kalash region and South_Central Asia in general, prior to the farming expansion will look predominantly ANE.


    This is how I imagine proto ANE groups looked like. Kalash look pred. West Eurasian but display very typical "pseudo" Amerindian features.


    Alan. I.....................this is a really wonderful post.

  9. #84
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    770
    Points
    7,659
    Level
    26
    Points: 7,659, Level: 26
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 491
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    That is true, we have Jomon like people who are East Eurasian but display Caucasoid features. But than this is why I don't understand why people are using some phsyical features in modern populations to pin point the origin of ANE. Why should ANE be East Eurasian just based on Mansi if on fst Distance and the origin tree ANE is brother to UHG/WHG?

    Where is the logic? But than if you seriously compare EE with ANE and EE without ANE a trend Caucasoid trend among the ANE admixed groups get's visible. I don't think this is coincidence. And I also don't think ANE reprsents Uber Caucasoid features just like I don't think WHG does (but ANE even slightly less) Just that I think they didn't look EE.

    This is why in the past I wrote that ANE probably looked like some Kalash individuals who display "pseudo" Amerindian featueres. At the end of the day Kalash have like 35-40% ANE. They have slightly less than Amerindians and Mansi but than their other part is mostly UHG like which is still closer to ANE than EE anyways. I don't know why they are often ignored in these kind of studies. And I bet my last money that ancient samples from the Kalash region and South_Central Asia in general, prior to the farming expansion will look predominantly ANE.


    This is how I imagine proto ANE groups looked like. Kalash look pred. West Eurasian but display very typical "pseudo" Amerindian features.


    OK, I actually hadn't realized that Alan's posts were actually just the starting point of where shit got real.

    My understanding was that ANE was distinct, and then later mixed. And I know the stats are consistent with this. I guess I would say that I'm unsure where "mongoloid" phenotype came about.

  10. #85
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    29-01-14
    Posts
    157
    Points
    5,341
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,341, Level: 21
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 209
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    MtDNA haplogroup
    I5a

    Ethnic group
    Finnish
    Country: Finland



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    This admixture run from the recent Ainu paper is interesting from the ENA perspective. It is interesting to try to trace ANE in these admixture runs as we know that Siberians and Arctic people are high in ANE. Yellow is Neolithic farmer ancestry which is absent in Ma1 and other ancient North-Eurasians.

    Ainu admixture run.jpg

    (http://www.genetics.org/content/earl...5.178673.short)

  11. #86
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,615
    Points
    300,167
    Level
    100
    Points: 300,167, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    This admixture run from the recent Ainu paper is interesting from the ENA perspective. It is interesting to try to trace ANE in these admixture runs as we know that Siberians and Arctic people are high in ANE. Yellow is Neolithic farmer ancestry which is absent in Ma1 and other ancient North-Eurasians.

    Ainu admixture run.jpg

    (http://www.genetics.org/content/earl...5.178673.short)

    Very nice, thank-you.

    So, would it be present in everything except the yellow Sardinia/Neolithic?

  12. #87
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    17-03-13
    Posts
    762
    Points
    6,111
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,111, Level: 23
    Level completed: 13%, Points required for next Level: 439
    Overall activity: 6.0%


    Country: Sweden



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    http://www.genetics.org/content/earl...5.178673.short)?

    Components
    Red : 100% Sherpa --> mixed South Asian/Tibetan unified because there is no other sample with South Asian component to distinguish it.
    Grey : 100% Ainou --> I am not convinced it is a pure old Jomon component. I think for a mixed old Jomon/East Siberian . This biases and underestimates their calculation of Jomon part in Japonese modern population who has got at least 40% of Jomon male Y-chromosome (30-40 % D2, 5-10% C1a1 and probably unknown O2 and N pourcentages already present in final Jomon)
    Orange : 100% Indigenous tribes of Taiwan (Ami, Atayal) --> Old Austronesian component
    Blue : 100% Chuckchi --> Old Beringian component
    Violet : 100% Amazonian tribe (Karitiana and Surui) --> Amerindian component
    Pink : 100% Papuan : Old Oceanian compoent
    Yellow 100% Sardinian : West Eurasian component

    We find the West Eurasian (yellow) component in:

    - Without modern mixing in : Sardinian, Uyghur, Thai, Altaian, Mansi, Tubalar, Tuvinian, Kalmuk

    - With full modern mixing (< 200 years) in : Aleut, Tlingit, Yukagir2, Even

    - With ancient and modern mixings : Yakut, Selkup, Dolgan
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...285#post117285

  13. #88
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second Class10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    814
    Points
    12,797
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,797, Level: 34
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 553
    Overall activity: 12.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by LumiBardha View Post
    Since we are speaking about east Asian ancestry.A question about Haplogroups but first a little background. My parents are Albanians who lived in Montenegro. My fathers family tree reaches back at least 200+ years. My moms is just here say, great grandparents and what not, I know all of my relatives (there are way too many) I know I had multiple uncles from her side that disappeared during the Balkan wars. Anyway, I received my 23andme results yesterday. My fathers side is no shocker I am of the EV13 branch. However, My mothers side came out to be D4J! I know these Haplogroups reach wayyyy back in history and it really has nothing to do with any relative that I would know. however the only thing I know about this group is that it is of East Asian decent. Which is shocking to me, could this be a mistake? Thank you!
    I don't think paternal and maternal haplogroups have so much to do with what your ethnic makeup is, so much as what it was ages ago. Autosomal DNA I would think is reflective of the ethnicities/heritage in your genes.

    My paternal line is R-M512/R-M417 R1a1a1. I havent had a deep test done to determine which subclade it is. It is on the low side in Albania and Kosova, with E-V13 dominating. Proto-Albanians were most likely carriers of r1a and r1b and brought the culture from the steppes, assimilating the local E-V13 peoples into proto albanian speaking populations. Much like most south slavs dont descend from original slavs but from the assimilated haplogroups present there.

    My mothers line was H11a. Can't say I have found much info on it or what its subclades are, but apparently very common in western europe. Basques, Scandinavians have some of the highest H11a. My mothers family is from Malesi in the Puka region, with origins from Cameria. My fathers family are from Martanesh in Dibra(Mat region) with origins in our family tree going back to Mirdita which isnt too far off.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •