Why Human

[20HAtheo]

As philosophers, historians, and wise old men and women would have us know, people are born with certain things about them that make them "human". Yes, of course, we all have the genetic build that is standard for us to biologically be human and not bird or bug. What I mean when I say they "would have us know" is that people are born with natural humanities and inhumanities, natural driving causes, wills and inherent desires. Some are born strong in life with resilient thick skin, while others may have the skeletal structure of a stick man with softer skin. Either way as is said, regardless of how strong or weak, short or tall, perfect or broken, we are all to be considered equal. Why? Because it is within us to be accepted, we were designed to form social cultures and live with one another, acceptance is everything to us because being comfortable with one another is everything.
Now if a woman is born with the natural desire for money then you could say she was born into this world with a deep will to be free from restraint. If a man comes into this world blindly seeking an understandable love and finds himself struggling through his life in pursuit of the opposite sex, he might see that it isn't women that have the capacity to understand or love him the way he feels comfortable. You could say that the man without prejudice seeks a human being that is capable of loving him. Both of these individuals are equal and justified as they both pursue their natural humanities, the thing inside of them which they were born with.
I don't claim to be a philosopher or a historian, I am also very young and not so wise. Having said that I would have you know that I mostly disagree with the above ideas. Human beings are born into this world only slightly different from the animals around them. Chimps, for example, are the closest as it gets in genetics, they are between 95% to 98.5% genetically built like humans. Why then do they swing from trees instead of drive cars, why is it that they don't talk in a common language or develop as people do? It is because chimps cannot learn like the human being, because they are selfish and desire only their own pleasure. What makes men and women human is the desire for information but not for selfish reasons, people wish to share knowledge and grow together.
As infants we use all we have to communicate with the adults, we express emotion by crying, laughing, or we utilize our natural given facial gestures to show them how we feel about things. We keep our eyes wide open to absorb the world around us and as we grow older we begin forming sounds that will eventually be words, these shapeless sounds our the greatest efforts of communication. The ability to thoroughly communicate an idea, feeling, or need is single to humans in its current level of complexity. It is because we seek information that we are human, it is why there are cars on the streets, planes in the sky, and rockets taking us into space.
The only thing we are really born with is the impulse to know "why". I don't insult our species by thinking or saying that everyone is born with a different drive like a randomized crayon box, open it up and who knows what you'll find, no. We are no accident, God made both man and woman so that they could someday come to understand him. Creating intelligent life is an amazing thing, God did a lot of that, the stars are full of it. The real part missing is natural understanding, because that can't be created.
Like God and everyone else I seek to be understood. As a man I only seek to know “why”. “Why what?” you may ask, to that I say "Why anything, because I seek to understand that of both God and man ,after all everything is of one or the other".


-Theodore W. Hazen

[LeBrok]

As philosophers, historians, and wise old men and women would have us know, people are born with certain things about them that make them "human". Yes, of course, we all have the genetic build that is standard for us to biologically be human and not bird or bug. What I mean when I say they "would have us know" is that people are born with natural humanities and inhumanities, natural driving causes, wills and inherent desires. Some are born strong in life with resilient thick skin, while others may have the skeletal structure of a stick man with softer skin. Either way as is said, regardless of how strong or weak, short or tall, perfect or broken, we are all to be considered equal. Why? Because it is within us to be accepted, we were designed to form social cultures and live with one another, acceptance is everything to us because being comfortable with one another is everything.
Now if a woman is born with the natural desire for money then you could say she was born into this world with a deep will to be free from restraint. If a man comes into this world blindly seeking an understandable love and finds himself struggling through his life in pursuit of the opposite sex, he might see that it isn't women that have the capacity to understand or love him the way he feels comfortable. You could say that the man without prejudice seeks a human being that is capable of loving him. Both of these individuals are equal and justified as they both pursue their natural humanities, the thing inside of them which they were born with.
I don't claim to be a philosopher or a historian, I am also very young and not so wise. Having said that I would have you know that I mostly disagree with the above ideas. Human beings are born into this world only slightly different from the animals around them. Chimps, for example, are the closest as it gets in genetics, they are between 95% to 98.5% genetically built like humans. Why then do they swing from trees instead of drive cars, why is it that they don't talk in a common language or develop as people do? It is because chimps cannot learn like the human being, because they are selfish and desire only their own pleasure. What makes men and women human is the desire for information but not for selfish reasons, people wish to share knowledge and grow together.

You must be very young to think so. Most people I know don't want to learn much, but rather surround themselves by cocoon of pleasures and daily existence.

As infants we use all we have to communicate with the adults, we express emotion by crying, laughing, or we utilize our natural given facial gestures to show them how we feel about things. We keep our eyes wide open to absorb the world around us and as we grow older we begin forming sounds that will eventually be words, these shapeless sounds our the greatest efforts of communication. The ability to thoroughly communicate an idea, feeling, or need is single to humans in its current level of complexity. It is because we seek information that we are human, it is why there are cars on the streets, planes in the sky, and rockets taking us into space.

The cars, plains and the rest of technology was developed from understanding of physical world, and not human nature or biblical scripture.

The only thing we are really born with is the impulse to know "why". I don't insult our species by thinking or saying that everyone is born with a different drive like a randomized crayon box, open it up and who knows what you'll find, no. We are no accident, God made both man and woman so that they could someday come to understand him. Creating intelligent life is an amazing thing, God did a lot of that, the stars are full of it. The real part missing is natural understanding, because that can't be created.

If god wanted people to understand him he wouldn't create morons or kids with genetic disease who die young, etc. If god was true love and mercy (a good person), he would create all people smart, beautiful, healthy and with equal chances in life. At least that's what I would do if I were god.

Like God and everyone else I seek to be understood. As a man I only seek to know “why”. “Why what?” you may ask, to that I say "Why anything, because I seek to understand that of both God and man ,after all everything is of one or the other".

As long as you cling to your religious dogma you won't be able to understand the world and people. Free your mind, embrace science, and you will get there one day.

Welcome to Eupedia 20HAtheo.

PS. I used to believe in god long time ago. It got me nowhere, just constant confusions and dilemmas.

[20HAtheo]

You must be very young to think so. Most people I know don't want to learn much, but rather surround themselves by cocoon of pleasures and daily existence.

The cars, plains and the rest of technology was developed from understanding of physical world, and not human nature or biblical scripture.

If god wanted people to understand him he wouldn't create morons or kids with genetic disease who die young, etc. If god was true love and mercy (a good person), he would create all people smart, beautiful, healthy and with equal chances in life. At least that's what I would do if I were god.

As long as you cling to your religious dogma you won't be able to understand the world and people. Free your mind, embrace science, and you will get there one day.

Welcome to Eupedia 20HAtheo.

PS. I used to believe in god long time ago. It got me nowhere, just constant confusions and dilemmas.

God and religion aside, I simply think that human curiosity is one of the primary reasons the world is the way it is today. Yes people can be lazy and cripple themselves with over stimulation and reduce their focus to pleasure alone. It isn't to say that in pleasure they don't express the same form of curiosity and intrigue for information. Maybe the information by all means is useless but still it is information and useful or not people are always seeking to "learn". (I hate to use one example more then once so in this case I'll call it a reflection of a comment I made) In relation to humans being unique because of the interest for information, we have what I'll call human interest meaning that we aren't wholy selfish like chimps are, they may work together and show signs of a common goal but ultimately it becomes obvious that they only look to their own interests. Take a pot and throw curiosity and sympathy in it and that is what I would call human interest.

As a note, this is my first post on this site so thank you for being respectful, I haven't always been treated this way but what can I say, it's the Internet. (No good at arguing but I always enjoy good conversation)

[bicicleur]

it is not God that created human, it is the 1.5 % DNA different from chimps which was an evolution of many millions of years
the humans that didn't have the proper skills to survive went extinct
and now all of this comes together in a spiral of fast developing technologies and communications

[LeBrok]

God and religion aside, I simply think that human curiosity is one of the primary reasons the world is the way it is today.Yes people can be lazy and cripple themselves with over stimulation and reduce their focus to pleasure alone. It isn't to say that in pleasure they don't express the same form of curiosity and intrigue for information. Maybe the information by all means is useless but still it is information and useful or not people are always seeking to "learn". (I hate to use one example more then once so in this case I'll call it a reflection of a comment I made)

I'm definitively a curious beast. Unfortunately when I was trying to decipher the world with curious questions there were usually not many around me interested in carrying conversations from exploratory point of view. That's why I'm here on net talking to few curious ones I can find. Why there are so few?
Most people are interested (curious) in typical life stuff, dating, eating, sleeping, music, entertainment, disaster/crime stories, health, looks, kids, gossip, etc. Mostly the stuff our ancestors hunter gatherers did through at least a million of years. How evolutionary positive correlation, won't you say?
They don't care if the world is round, how old is the universe, where we come from, or how cellphone works. This is only addressed by the few curious ones, the geek, the scientist, the philosopher.

In relation to humans being unique because of the interest for information, we have what I'll call human interest meaning that we aren't wholy selfish like chimps are, they may work together and show signs of a common goal but ultimately it becomes obvious that they only look to their own interests. Take a pot and throw curiosity and sympathy in it and that is what I would call human interest.

There is a common set of behavior to all group animals, humans included. Because for social animals, the group is more important than individuals. The well being of a group is the key survival. By this point of view continuity of group's DNA pool is most important. Group can afford to lose individual with it's DNA, as long as there are few in the group carrying it forward. Individual DNA is not unique in the group, therefore expendable if needed. Individuals of the group, are related to the group already (fathers, uncles, sons, cousins, etc), therefore all of their DNA is already in other group members. Losing one of few members doesn't change much, but sacrificing life of few for many, for the group, can save the group, and it's genome from extinction. Of course, you can't scarify too many individuals, or the group will stop existing all together. Important is the balance between sacrificial commitment and bravery of individuals, and empathic, charitable and altruistic behavior to save individuals to make group stronger.
Group, a tribe, is nothing more than one big family. Strength of group increases survival of its members and group in general.

Examples of moral behavior in social animals:

Here a chimp opens cage to share food with others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YSpzgRYn_U

Buffalo saves individual from danger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpnERlsfBFc

A point can be made that even primitive ants have morals. They work together, build together, fight together, care for kids, protect and die for the group. Perhaps ants only do it by automatic programming, humans by emotions and nurture, but the outcome is pretty much the same. Protecting your group.

Mind you that all life on earth, from bacteria to humans, have 3 main goals: Eat, Survive, Multiply, to make sure their DNA lives on. You brake one of these rules, your DNA line is broken and deleted forever.


You right about the knowledge however. Humans are unique in this regard. Our memory capacity is enormous and logical thinking exceptional. We have rich and complex social lives. However I don't see too many curious minds. Anyway, thanks god (genetic mutation or recombination) for these few who invented all this technology. I love it.

As a note, this is my first post on this site so thank you for being respectful, I haven't always been treated this way but what can I say, it's the Internet. (No good at arguing but I always enjoy good conversation)

I'm glad you see this way. On Eupedia we allow to discuss almost everything, but always with respect to others.

[20HAtheo]

Thank you for the comments LeBrok, I appreciate the way you've described things here, very informative. This is also very refreshing, to find a place where people do care to talk about the clockwork. I would have to agree with you on nearly all of your claims as I can see the logic behind that, on the other hand I am still very set in my religion. Don't think that would restrict my vision too much though, I have a clear and open mind for all logic and science. Thanks again!

[LeBrok]

Thanks for nice words.
Here are few examples of my "figuring out" human nature:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...g-and-Morality

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...why-we-believe

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...iefs-Explained

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...r-spirituality

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-our-ancestors

[Rethel]

Most people I know don't want to learn much, but rather surround themselves by cocoon of pleasures and daily existence.

This are sacred words...

biblical scripture.

And... was you curious about that?
I mean really curious... with serious study...

If god wanted people to understand him

He would give some piece of intelectual information... and he did it.

he wouldn't create morons or kids with genetic disease who die young, etc.

God did not create them. At least in the Bible we do not find such a claims.
Other religions and ateists have a problem with that, because they can't find
good explanation for that situation. Naturalistic explanation is of course not
so bad, because is based on the nature, but is not giving any good reason,
or any sensible solution. More than that, people not beliving in God are quite
unlogical, becasue they do not want hear about things, which not only are
contradicting to their concept, but also do not want to hear about natural
phenomenons, which are not only agree with their theory, but are direct
consequence of evolutionary philosophy, which in darwinian part is even
quite accurate - but this belivers do not want to hear about that. And this
is the reason, why they have so many tabu words, themes, superstitions
and prejustices among them. Of course in their "logic" this not contradict
that their are "openminded", ready to discusion, and so on. They simply
fulled themaselves, as members of some cult. And mostly they have much
bigger faith than religious people. Of course they think that they have not,
because paradigm must be as they want. The same as in the case of blind
beliving people, or members of some irrational para/religious cult.

If god was true love and mercy (a good person), he would create all people smart, beautiful, healthy and with equal chances in life. At least that's what I would do if I were god.

And maybe this is the reason, why you, I, or somebody else are not.
God created people as a perfect human beings with the possibilty to
choose good or bad. And all humankind chose make this possibility a
real stuff. So we have, what we wanted (as mankind).

If you would create people as you describe, you would have to create
robots without free will - then you would not think on your own. God
wanted people to be free to choose - so he created people free and
responsible - exactly as he wanted. And this was a very good idea.

As long as you cling to your religious dogma you won't be able to understand the world and people.

It is of course false caliming, not only because religious people can
understand people and world, but they have also a reason to do this.
Rejection of religion lead only to another and even worst dogmas...

Free your mind, embrace science, and you will get there one day.

And this is only a(n un)godly wish...
Mind and science are very limited and they are always and always wrong until
they do find something better. Most things wich sciene were claiming to be true
100 years ago now is a fulishness... and this process are cionstant, because our
perception is limited, people are susceptible for beliving in dogmas (for example
in concepts as a real truths) - so beliving in such a mishmash is only a temporaly
solution which is as quicksand.

PS. I used to believe in god long time ago.

And why are you rejected your faith and which faith?

It got me nowhere, just constant confusions and dilemmas.

Maybe you were going in wrong direction
or you have wrong assumptions? This are
the most often and common reasons.

[LeBrok]

And... was you curious about that?
I mean really curious... with serious study...

Yes, and it didn't make sense from beginning. Countless questions without valid answers.

He would give some piece of intelectual information... and he did it.

He didn't. All was written by so called prophets. Do you know why there are no prophets anymore in today's world? We keep them closed in psychiatric institutions.

God did not create them. At least in the Bible we do not find such a claims.
Other religions and ateists have a problem with that, because they can't find
good explanation for that situation.

It is not my fault that you don't understand genetics and natural selection.

Naturalistic explanation is of course not
so bad, because is based on the nature, but is not giving any good reason,
or any sensible solution. More than that, people not beliving in God are quite
unlogical, becasue they do not want hear about things, which not only are
contradicting to their concept, but also do not want to hear about natural
phenomenons, which are not only agree with their theory, but are direct
consequence of evolutionary philosophy, which in darwinian part is even
quite accurate - but this belivers do not want to hear about that. And this
is the reason, why they have so many tabu words, themes, superstitions
and prejustices among them. Of course in their "logic" this not contradict
that their are "openminded", ready to discusion, and so on. They simply
fulled themaselves, as members of some cult.

I pointed to your "logic" in the other thread today, and by two paragraphs below:

And maybe this is the reason, why you, I, or somebody else are not.
God created people as a perfect human beings with the possibilty to
choose good or bad. And all humankind chose make this possibility a
real stuff. So we have, what we wanted (as mankind).

If you would create people as you describe, you would have to create
robots without free will - then you would not think on your own. God
wanted people to be free to choose - so he created people free and
responsible - exactly as he wanted. And this was a very good idea.

Is this your logic acting up with these contradictions?!
Besides, what free will has to do with being healthy, smart and beautiful?!!!

It is of course false caliming, not only because religious people can
understand people and world, but they have also a reason to do this.
Rejection of religion lead only to another and even worst dogmas...

You are the best example of it. Stop using your religious "logic".

And this is only a(n un)godly wish...
Mind and science are very limited and they are always and always wrong until
they do find something better. Most things wich sciene were claiming to be true
100 years ago now is a fulishness... and this process are cionstant, because our
perception is limited, people are susceptible for beliving in dogmas (for example
in concepts as a real truths) - so beliving in such a mishmash is only a temporaly
solution which is as quicksand.

A perfect example of religious logic.
The beauty of science is that is self correcting. There are many hypothesis that people come up with, but with time only the right once survive as theories, due to experimentation and confirmation, again again and again. Do you think someone will disprove electromagnetic radiation or double helix DNA or genetic mutation or natural selection? Tell us what you can't get from modern science. Perhaps we can help you.

And why are you rejected your faith and which faith?

Can you tell us why you think your religion is the true one and other billions of people are wrong?

Maybe you were going in wrong direction
or you have wrong assumptions? This are
the most often and common reasons.

Nope. I understand the world now and it makes perfect sense. I was never a spiritual person feeling the presence of god, and believe blindly. I had to understand my religion with logic to truly "believe" in it, and it never happened. Through science however I understand the world and human nature. In this case, why would I look for god or other spirits to understand it? I'm already there!

[Rethel]

Yes, and it didn't make sense from beginning. Countless questions without valid answers.

How many time you did this?
Were you study with faith or with Dawkings under the Bible?
What questions?

He didn't. All was written by so called prophets. Do you know why there are no prophets anymore in today's world? We keep them closed in psychiatric institutions.

If you assume, that you have ready answer for that...
Maybe you was expecting something else...

It is not my fault that you don't understand genetics and natural selection.

You like to think so, because you must be always right.

I pointed to your "logic" in the other thread today, and by two paragraphs below:

And what is not logic in that?

God wanted people to have choice - so they could do good or bad.
People chose bad - as they wanted.
God wanted us to chose good, but we wanted different.

If I get you a choice of red and white thing, And I reccomend you to
chose white, and you are chosing red - whoes fault it is? Mine? No. Yours.

Is this your logic acting up with these contradictions?!
Besides, what free will has to do with being healthy, smart and beautiful?!!!

If you wanted to be on your own, without God, and you think that you can
do better - you must trust about these things on your own. If you want be
better then God, you have a chance to proove it. You was saying, that you
would do better than God. So you have the chance. Show how you do better
and make some body healthy smart and beauty... for ever. You have brain, you
can do this. No? You cannot even make alive a dead body who is ready in 100%
from phisical point of view...? but you are claiming that Mr. Nothing did this...
Your very clever brian cannot to something, which Mr. Nothing could do?
Really? Mr. Nothing with Mrs. Coincidance are smarter than 7.2 bilion people?

You are the best example of it. Stop using your religious "logic".

But it is true.
Especially everyone who was a christian biggot - i.e. brainless belivers - after
rejecting christianity, is going to belive, with the same bigottery in something
else. It could be atheism, or some belive in UFO and Reptilians who ruled the
world - it doesn't matter really what, but this something is absorbing like a new
religion who filled such a person and is the same brainless belivers as was before.
But in the case of new born atheists it is even worst, because they think that
they think, but they believe even more, than when they were christians, because
they need this drug to belive and feel themselves better than others... And such
a new atheistic person cannot understand any more any reason, because he belive
in reason... who is not a reason at all... This is very similar for example to JWs...
They think, that they are study Bible, and they became JWs becuse they were
thinking and rejecting others religions... but they were only told that, and the same
is with new atheists... who simply probably dont WANT belive in God, because they
want do things on their own...

A perfect example of religious logic.
The beauty of science is that is self correcting.

And what if at the end, when you will be long long dead, science came
to the conclusion, that there is a God and everything is as it Bible descibe?
What then?

You cannot say, that this is impossible, becuase sciene is selfcorecting...
An it can correcting herself next thousand years... and after this time
everything on wich you based your belives will be false. 100% of them.
So why you are base your belives in something what is wrong and false?
And you know about this...

Can you tell us why you think your religion is the true one and other billions of people are wrong?

I do not belong to any particular religion.

Nope. I understand the world now and it makes perfect sense.

So imagine, that you are living during LGM and you understand world NOW according to present (in time of LGM) knoledge.
Would you be right according to this what you see and what you are learn from the shaman?

Imagine, that earth compare to Universe is even smaller than quark.
Can you correctly understand the world living on the quark, or being even at the size of bacteria?

I was never a spiritual person feeling the presence of god, and believe blindly. I had to understand my religion with logic to truly "believe" in it, and it never happened.

And in which sect you was?

Through science however I understand the world and human nature. In this case, why would I look for god or other spirits to understand it? I'm already there!

Because you do not know everything.
You do not even know the 1/100000000000000000000000000000 of everything.
Even if you would know 50% of everything - still there is a 50% possiblity, that God is in this next 50% about you do not have any idea.
Even if you would know everything about our Universe - you still will not know everything.
Because our universe is closed dimension, and you cannot know what is behind this dimension.
It is like a space in computer game. She can have no end, but noone from there can't
even see what is in another game in the same program or on the same computer. And
cannot see what is in our supreme world behind the screen... It is impoliblle. But the
programist can do whatever he wish to do.

If you would be a rational atheist 300 years ago, you woudnt belive in bacteria and viruses.
Why? Because they are unseeable. So? It doesn'y mean that they didn't exist then, and
that they had no influence on your life... you could then laughing as m,uch as you want,
if some one would tell you, that sickness are making some unseeable creatures, some
demos alled bacteria... But your laugh and your good selffeeling would not change the
fact, that these "demons" are real, and thet they can kill you... You could even laugh
if some one would tell you, that these demons are living in old food, or on your desk...
But they still would be existing and killing many of your neighbours...