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Thread: Can Muslims live peacefully with Christians, and vice versa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Bicicleur,
    Europe is not secular. This is only an euphemism for some unnamed "secular" religion.
    Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
    and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
    communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

    Of course, some people belive in that empty phrase... secular... but it is curve ball...
    Wow, we have conspiracy theorists on steroids, lol. On top of it you are as fundamentalist and extremist as ISIS, and you fight for the same god. If you didn't notice 70% Europeans are Christians and only 20% of agnostics and atheists. If anything Europe is predominantly pro Christian. Again, your bold and intolerant statements have little to do with reality. Can't you see that your mind is tricking you?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Europeans are tired of wars. Only in ww2 were killed an estimated
    Good point. Both world wars brought only disaster, distraction, death and suffering to all Europeans, and nobody truly won and benefited of it. Well, except Americans, because European firms were in ruins and without capital, American companies could easily expend worldwide (and in Europe) catching biggest share of the market. Europeans had to kill each other in tens of millions to finely notice that nobody can rally win, got smarter and try peaceful way for a change. With great benefits as we can see these days.
    This killing, arm wrestling of various groups, is going on today in Near East. Many might be killed and massacred till they learn, as well as Europeans, that this is not the right way to go about. In mean time this creates a brain drain, because most talented and with money go to Europe to find a safe place to live. This might in turn slow down economic growth and cause lack of professionals in the region in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

    Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.
    Exactly my observations too. Radical Christians or radical Muslims, what's the difference? They just grew up in different countries, that's all. Their haltered for different others is same strong and unforgiving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    political correctness is the new religion
    What about kindness and tolerance? By the way, religion is organized spirituality.

    it's a selfdestructive religion it won't last, but in the mean time it will have made a lot of damage
    Pure speculation. Can you give example of politically correct country destroyed by itself. I can give plenty of examples of intolerant and conservative countries or systems which are long gone. Should I start?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Love and peace is only for Muslims. Shias are not muslims for sunnis, and sunnis are not muslims for shias.
    They are even worse than jews and christians, because they are apostates. That's all.
    .
    They are so worse than you, because you only hate: socialists, atheists, homosexuals, evolutionists, antichrists, communists, masons, jews and of course muslims.

    Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
    and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
    communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    If I create today society of Q-men, and I make a rule, that Q-men can be only
    lefthanded and wearing red shirts, and everyone, who is righthanded and wearing
    shirts in different colour is not a Qman - then who will decide, who can be a Qman???
    Someone who want to wear blue shirt? No. I will decide, because I am the one making
    the rules deciding who can be a Q-man and who can be not.
    This is a bit ridiculous

    Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

    If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Btw, if there will be such a thing like secular normal muslim, then on the West were
    be no need for muslims gettos, for banning the burka, there will be not problem with
    burning cars and blowing buses, and people woudnt be wearing themselves as Arabs.

    Real Jewish, all others are Heretic




    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Boreas you are from Turkey,

    A country that started as Shia with Seljouks, become Suni, populated by taqqiya, expelled Bektasi muslims,
    and finally today is trebling among Kemalic state, and Sultan-Erdogan state,

    I guess you know the difference among Con/polis muslims, to far East/South Turkey radical Islam,

    just answer your shelf,
    for you, you are maybe a true muslim,
    for radical Islamists like Daesh, are you a true Muslim?
    and can you live, study, work with a Kufar/.Cafir?

    just answer your shelf,
    when your imams, say women must not drive,
    how will you react?
    will you allow your wife to drive?
    and if you would, how will you feel, if someone throw a stone to her, cause she drives?
    Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?



    In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    What about kindness and tolerance? By the way, religion is organized spirituality.

    Pure speculation. Can you give example of politically correct country destroyed by itself. I can give plenty of examples of intolerant and conservative countries or systems which are long gone. Should I start?
    Political correctness is new, it started in the 70's.
    Everyone who dissagrees is acused of being Nazi.
    It is political correctness that killed Pim Fortuyn in cool blood on the street.
    Many political correct men were rejoiced because of his death. He was to intelligent and spoke his mind, political correct people couldn't handle him.

    Political correctness is to young to have destroyed itself.
    Political correctness is Merkel inviting people from all over the world to become German citizins, and finding out afterwards that the flow becomes incontrolable.
    Now they are discussing how they will close the borders. In the mean time Europe is full of adventurers and fortune seekers who shouldn't be here at alland who are very dificult to remove from Europe again.
    It is this kind of stupidities that will finish political correctness in the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    This is a bit ridiculous

    Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

    If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.




    Real Jewish, all others are Heretic






    Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?



    In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.
    .
    One must ask the question of why 80% of muslim who are sunni want to kill off 20% shia muslim ..................or is it the sunni arabs against the shia Persian
    !!!!!!!
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Your above statement contradicts yours below:
    No, its no contradict, what I explained in larger context.

    1. In Islam there is no such thing like secular person - so everyone who
    claims to be one, exclude himself from Ummah or is a liar. Secular muslim
    is not a muslim at all - by islamic teachings.

    2. This not means, that don't exist people, who claim to be so called "secular muslims".

    3. Generally in Islamic world it is maybe 1% - as Boreas was claim, that fundamentalist are 1%, it was paralel sentence.

    4. But among the muslims who lived in the West this could me more, because they lived
    under influence of western society, so there could be even 20% (as some ststistics claim)
    Even if it is so big number, then still 80% are totaly normal, "fundamentalist" muslims.

    That's why we can't have intellectual conversation with illogical person.
    Yea, disscussion, with someone, who dont want understand on puropse or do not get simple thought-shorts.

    There is no tolerance for intolerant people on Eupedia. I'm predicting it is only a matter of time till your next ban.
    I predict that you will do this becasue tou want it.
    Intolerance person in tour meaning means "someone who do not agree with Lebrok".

    Your tolerance we all saw when you was colosing threads which you do not liked,
    or was claiming, that someone is someone who he wasn,t, or was talking about
    something about that he was not. In that manner everyone can be shout down,
    because you want that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Wow, we have conspiracy theorists on steroids, lol. On top of it you are as fundamentalist and extremist as ISIS, and you fight for the same god. If you didn't notice 70% Europeans are Christians and only 20% of agnostics and atheists. If anything Europe is predominantly pro Christian. Again, your bold and intolerant statements have little to do with reality. Can't you see that your mind is tricking you?
    So you are living in some imagine world - I was suspecting this,
    and some people here were suggesting this, but now I am sure.

    And now I am as ISIS... wow... so if you like belive in that...
    And this you called intelectual disscussion, if you do not know even about what I was writing about...

    Bilecular was writing about European Union, and I was writing about that - about state, not people.

    As about people: maybe 70% called themselves christians, but they are not.
    They are behaving like secular atheists and nihilists. In France only 5% of so
    called "belivers" is going to church, and most of this 70% in Europe has mostly
    the same customs and belives as atheists. Religion not influance their decisions
    in life. So they at least can be called as cultural christians, because they are
    celebrated two or three holydays in year plus wedding and baptisms and it's all.

    Christian it is someone who behave like christian and belivbe like christian, not only claiming to be.

    If someone belive in evolution, abortion, homosexuality aso - he is not a true christian.
    He is more atheists and secular. In catholic and probably orthodox church such a person
    excommunicate himself without need of any church action.

    And were you see a concpiracy theory? I don't know.

    About GOdF - this is not a secret. You can go to their base in Paris and go inside. Almost everone
    french politician is a member of this organisation - he must be to keep secular course of the state.
    About maosists - for example Joseph Emmanuel Barosso is one of them and he even is proud of that.
    About zero-grouth belivers - this is obvious because UE is making everything to kill economy...
    Last edited by Rethel; 10-11-15 at 14:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    They are so worse than you, because you only hate: socialists, atheists, homosexuals, evolutionists, antichrists, communists, masons, jews and of course muslims.
    You see - you cannot live without imputing someone, something, that he does not feel.

    And where you saw the Jews (especially, that I hate them??????) Where???????? This is simply your imagination.

    So who is beliving in conspiracy theories - I or maybe you?
    Last edited by Rethel; 10-11-15 at 14:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    This is a bit ridiculous
    It was very simplified - but you even do not understand that.

    Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?
    That should decide shias and sunnis.
    They both have different hadiths, so - probably this ones, who will kill the others at all?.
    But becuse of many bizzare (more than sinnis) teachings of shias, I suspeced that sunnis are right theologicaly.
    But in the case of succession - who knows, mabe shias are right? No one can know exactly now.

    If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.
    ???

    Real Jewish, all others are Heretic
    Secular Jews who do not even belive in Tora - certainly are.

    Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?
    So I see you do not understand Christianity.
    We do not have so many rules as muslims and jews for every aspect of life.
    We have no need to wearing some cloths - but it not means, that cultural customs are not different in different countries.
    Even monogamy is a cultural thing based on Roman Law - not a biblical necessery thing.

    But in Islam everything is regulating by holy and halfholy scriptures.
    Even which hand you must use to which thing, how to sleep, how to eat, how to wear...
    So do not compare Christianity to Islam, becuase there is a huge abyss between them.

    Btw, we, by principle, are free - you by principle are slaves.
    And this is pattern in every kind of life and teachings.
    We can do whatever we want to - exept some necessery borbidden things.
    Muslims cannot do nothing exept things which are allow by Koran or Sunna.

    Our first (and second) comandment is to love God the Father, and love neighbours.
    Yours is to be obidient to Allah-slave-owner, hate the unbelivers and be not so bad for another muslim.

    In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.
    So you are an apostate, becuase you do not want to be a muslim by name.
    This is not personal choice. You are not a definer of Islam, but Mohammed is.
    Read his life - and you'll see, how should behave a true muslim.
    Mohammed is a perfect muslim. Not you.

    He killed 800 jews in Jathrib, and two another tribes exiled.
    He had sex with dead body in grave.
    He had sex with nine year old girl.
    He killed every non beliver in Arabia.
    He is the example - and he was not secular at all.

    You cannot be a muslim without Mohammed and Koran.
    You cannot define what you want Islam to be, or not.
    Last edited by Rethel; 10-11-15 at 14:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    It is this kind of stupidities that will finish political correctness in the end.
    And at the and, there will be a huge massacre.
    And then politcorecors will say, that it was fault of christians of course...
    But they never ever see fault in their own camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post

    Christian it is someone who behave like christian and belivbe like christian, not only claiming to be.
    Right, for you Catholics are true Christians, and for ISIS Sunni are the true Muslims. You think alike.


    If someone belive in evolution, abortion, homosexuality aso - he is not a true christian.
    Believe? Abortion and homosexuality exists and you can touch it. Your logic doing tricks on you again.
    This explains why you don't get evolution. It takes some brain power to grasp it.

    He is more atheists and secular. In catholic and probably orthodox church such a person
    excommunicate himself without need of any church action.
    On way, Orthodox are Christians!? Aren't you stretching your definition of Christianity too much?


    And were you see a concpiracy theory? I don't know.
    I know you don't know, but at least you sort of suspect what normal people mean by that, and I'm glad you rushed with examples:
    About GOdF - this is not a secret. You can go to their base in Paris and go inside. Almost everone
    french politician is a member of this organisation - he must be to keep secular course of the state.
    About maosists - for example Joseph Emmanuel Barosso is one of them and he even is proud of that.
    About zero-grouth belivers - this is obvious because UE is making everything to kill economy...
    PS. I don't think you understand Jesus's preaching either. You do and say exactly opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    You see - you cannot live without imputing someone, something, that he does not feel.
    Yes you can. Come to Canada to see this yourself. It exists, you can touch it, you don't need to believe it or not. So easy.
    The key worlds is tolerance and inclusiveness.

    Stop being afraid of others, others different than you. They are people with feelings, good people. They don't want to kill you or harm you. They just want to live like people, like you. Stop being afraid and paranoid. Follow Jesus's preaching about love, forgiveness, mercy, tolerance and compassion. Drop your axe and follow Jesus, dude.
    And yes, he was a politically correct man.

    So who is beliving in conspiracy theories - I or maybe you?
    Check the definition, otherwise you don't understand what people are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Right, for you Catholics are true Christians, and for ISIS Sunni are the true Muslims. You think alike.
    And you again know better than I... amazing.
    And someone was talking about brain power...

    Believe? Abortion and homosexuality exists and you can touch it. Your logic doing tricks on you again.
    Again... where I wrote that abortion and homosexuality do not exist? Where?

    On way, Orthodox are Christians!? Aren't you stretching your definition of Christianity too much?
    Did I somewhere said, that they are not?
    Third time in one post, you are arguing with your imagination.

    I know you don't know,
    So explain, where you saw this conspiracy theory?

    I don't think you understand Jesus's preaching either. You do and say exactly opposite.
    But you, who hates God, Bible and Christians, understand him perfectly... wow...
    If you were understanding in such way (as it seem to be), then I understand why
    you are not a christian any longer. This is normal process - you are not the only one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Political correctness is to young to have destroyed itself.
    It is not political or economic system to destroy a country. It is just a way of being nice to people, being inclusive and tolerant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    And you again know better than I... amazing.
    And someone was talking about brain power...
    Are you suggesting you are the smartest in the world? Perhaps you want to share your original ideas?


    Again... where I wrote that abortion and homosexuality do not exist? Where?
    You wrote that you believe in them. Why would you believe if they exist? It is not logical.



    Did I somewhere said, that they are not?
    Third time in one post, you are arguing with your imagination.
    I forgot that you can only tell who is a Christian, sorry.


    But you, who hates God, Bible and Christians, understand him perfectly... wow...
    If you were understanding in such way (as it seem to be), then I understand why
    you are not a christian any longer. This is normal process - you are not the only one.
    I'm not like you, I don't hate others. I have friends from all religions, race or sexual orientation. Live and let live. Follow the Christ's teaching...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Yes you can. Come to Canada to see this yourself. It exists, you can touch it, you don't need to believe it or not. So easy.
    The key worlds is tolerance and inclusiveness.
    I completly do not understand what you are talking about.
    I was talking about this, that you know better than I, what I am thinking.
    That's all.

    Stop being afraid of others, others different than you.
    I am cetainly not afrraid about anyone. Neigher homosexuals naither salafits.
    You really think, that if someone is decribing some situations or facts, he must
    be afraid, and if he don't agree with your vision he allready hates someone...
    But this is your imaginary world...

    They are people with feelings, good people. They don't want to kill you or harm you.
    No, they only are killing unborn children, they want teach MY children even in preschool
    how two sodomites do what they do, they want settle jihadists in my neibourhood, they
    want banned my christian belives, they want teach MY children about evolution and atheism...

    They really do not want do to me anything, what I do not want... very good people...

    But you know what? Hitler and Stalin wanted to do good things for another people too...
    And they were atheists and evolutionists... and socialists as present day gooddoers...

    They just want to live like people, like you.
    Everyone wants... even cannibals and rapers...

    Stop being afraid and paranoid.
    And you stop persuade me that I am, when I am not.

    Follow Jesus's preaching about love, forgiveness, mercy, tolerance and compassion. Drop your axe and follow Jesus, dude.


    Good joke!


    And yes, he was a politically correct man.


    So, when he was preaching about going to hell he was political correct?
    When he was preaching about observing the Law, which was for example
    sentencing homosexuals to be stoned - he was political correct?

    Check the definition, otherwise you don't understand what people are talking about.
    I know exactly what it is, because I am fighting this theories as a stupidity.
    Only you probably do not knows, because for you, something what do not
    fit to your worldview, is or rasist, or conspiracy theory, oor hating...
    And you are claiming that you are open minded...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Are you suggesting you are the smartest in the world? Perhaps you want to share your original ideas?
    No, it are you who are suggesting to everyone, that you are the smartest, because you have the only true
    view on the world, and any one else is not in his mind. This is you, who were insulting me writing, that for
    understand this what you understand I need a brain, which I do not have.

    And you misquoting me on purpose everytime.

    In this case, I was only cliaming, that you know better than I,
    that I was claimed that Catholics are the only true christians.
    I never make such a claim. From were do you take this?

    You wrote that you believe in them.
    I cetainly didnt wrote this. Again you twisting my words.
    I only wrote, that if someone belive in this, he is not a true christian.
    Belive, in sense, that he aproove this and claim to be good and christian.
    This was obvious from the context.

    Why would you believe if they exist? It is not logical.
    As above.

    Plus - you have very strange definition of belive...

    Were it is written, that belive can only in something that not exist?

    Cannot you belive in Ideas?
    Cannot you belive in yout country?
    Cannot you belive, that your wife loves you?
    Cannot you belive that your wife is not cheeting on you?
    Cannot you belive in constitution?
    Cannot you belive in the Bible?

    They all are not existing?

    I forgot that you can only tell who is a Christian, sorry.
    No, no I.
    In Christianity everyone who is baptized is a christian.
    But it does not mean that he is a true christian.
    Because the true christian is obeserving biblical commandments and values.
    If someone approve homosexuality, which is condemn in both Testaments,
    then he is not the true christian. He is an apostate and false deciples of Jesus.
    Exactly the same as in the case of muslims.

    I'm not like you, I don't hate others.
    And again, you know better whom I hate, than I. :)
    Can you understand, that "I'm not agree" "I dont like"
    and "I do not support" is not the same as "I hate"?

    I have friends from all religions, race
    I too, and what?

    Live and let live.
    Did I kill someone?

    Follow the Christ's teaching...
    Who was condeming sinners to Gehenna...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is not political or economic system to destroy a country. It is just a way of being nice to people, being inclusive and tolerant.
    it is putting your own principles personal in front of pragmatical acting and common sense
    it is demanding that others share your same principals and way of acting and that all necessary public resources are adressed to achieve it

    maybe I agree we should accept refugees, maybe I don't, it's not the point
    but inviting the whole world of fortune seekers and creating and uncontrolable flow of them and not communicating how much this whole joke is finally going to cost, you can be sure it will create a counterstream
    political correctness may be at its top now, it might start to decline, that is what I sense here in Europe
    people were acused of being racist for giving their opinion when the refugee crisis started, now many realise and acknowledge those people spoke sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    it is putting your own principles personal in front of pragmatical acting and common sense
    it is demanding that others share your same principals and way of acting and that all necessary public resources are adressed to achieve it

    maybe I agree we should accept refugees, maybe I don't, it's not the point
    but inviting the whole world of fortune seekers and creating and uncontrolable flow of them and not communicating how much this whole joke is finally going to cost, you can be sure it will create a counterstream
    political correctness may be at its top now, it might start to decline, that is what I sense here in Europe
    people were acused of being racist for giving their opinion when the refugee crisis started, now many realise and acknowledge those people spoke sense
    For example, in Holland it looks like this:




    So, wich ones are new masters, and who are new slaves working on them?
    And what the new masters give to the new country exept bombs and jihadists?

    This is the logic of "free loving world" - be an atheist and homo, invite muslims to be killed by them.
    This is a way how they are using their brains.

    Another example:

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015...-prayer-space/

    This is a genious of this new nihilistic society. But christians (these who belives in rules) are
    stupid, nazi, blind and do not have enough brain (to not destroy civilisation or to be not killed...)

    But when will be a war, this brilliant nihilists and atheists loving everyone (like LeBrok)
    will be the first who accept Islam, and they will be staying in the first line in the mosque
    praying to Allah, to destroy unbelivers - i.e. the same as they are doing today - christians.
    No one from them will be gladly dying for homosexualists, christians, jews or atheists.

    No one of them is going to Arabia teaching Arabs their antyvalues... they are doing this
    only here, because brainless, untolerant and nazi christians allowed them to do that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    .
    One must ask the question of why 80% of muslim who are sunni want to kill off 20% shia muslim ..................or is it the sunni arabs against the shia Persian
    !!!!!!!
    In similar way, how you can swim in Australia? there are lot's of shark attack in there. Your words have that much value.

    There is an idiom between Turks and Azeris, which is "one nation two country". One of them sunni, one of them shia. yes there are conflict, yes sometimes people are bombing others mosques, but still your words are not a general thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    It was very simplified - but you even do not understand that.
    I just wanted to see you could use own logic and perspective for another thing. But I guess, it is impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    ???
    Why you are suprising, this is your logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Secular Jews who do not even belive in Tora - certainly are.
    This is about language difference, I was talking about religion not a ethnic group. Jew and Jewish are different in Turkish. You are using "Moses Follower" (Musevilik) like Christ and Christian so of course there could be a Turk (ethnic) who doesn't believe in Quran and similarly, there could be a Jew (ethnic) who doesn't belive in Tora.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    So I see you do not understand Christianity.
    We do not have so many rules as muslims and jews for every aspect of life.
    We have no need to wearing some cloths - but it not means, that cultural customs are not different in different countries.
    Even monogamy is a cultural thing based on Roman Law - not a biblical necessery thing.

    But in Islam everything is regulating by holy and halfholy scriptures.
    Even which hand you must use to which thing, how to sleep, how to eat, how to wear...
    So do not compare Christianity to Islam, becuase there is a huge abyss between them.

    Btw, we, by principle, are free - you by principle are slaves.
    And this is pattern in every kind of life and teachings.
    We can do whatever we want to - exept some necessery borbidden things.
    Muslims cannot do nothing exept things which are allow by Koran or Sunna.
    Which century are you living bro ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Our first (and second) comandment is to love God the Father, and love neighbours.
    Yours is to be obidient to Allah-slave-owner, hate the unbelivers and be not so bad for another muslim.
    I just want to remind you that as I told my religion section is empty in my national ID, so there won't be funural for me in a mosque.

    Secondly who the hell are you decide my believe.

    and Thirdly, I admires you, I know everthing about Islam as much as Muhammed

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    So you are an apostate, becuase you do not want to be a muslim by name.
    This is not personal choice. You are not a definer of Islam, but Mohammed is.
    Read his life - and you'll see, how should behave a true muslim.
    Mohammed is a perfect muslim. Not you.
    Again I am telling you, just I can decide what my religion is, not you.

    Quran begins with word "read" , so people should read, this is what my grand pa teached me, but there is no space for good things in your mind for a islam

    or you have no idea about islamic view which is "love the all creatures, because of the creator"

    You are talking about burka, but I am wondering that do you know how many muslims in Europe wearing it.

    and I don't think that you are showing same behaviour against racist Europeans who burn cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I don't know whether Erdogan is a Muslim. But he made many comments in which he implies that Muslims are superior people who have nothing to learn from western values.
    Erdogan is very popular with Muslims who buy that kind of rhetoric. It is his main electorate.
    That is why it is so frightening what is happening in Turkey.
    The democracy it's the main value of western countries today. For a man like him, who wants to stay forever in power, the democracy it's a big obstacle. . He is just using Islam for his own goals. That's just disgusting.

    Yes, there are some ignorants who think he is a new sultan. What is happening in Turkey is normal for a weak democratic country. Just look at Hungary. You know what? What is happening today with Turkey, Hungary and some other countries, I predicted years ago. The democracy it's not so easy to imply. Turkey, Hungary, Greece and other countries are having democratic problems because of their past. Look at Macedonia, Albania, etc. They still have big problems with democracy. The democracy needs many years to be implemented. Some of these countries had military juntas, and some others were communists regimes. I think real democracies we have only in western Europe. Le Broke is right about his views on the matter, and I agree with him. The journey to democracy, it's a long one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    I just wanted to see you could use own logic and perspective for another thing. But I guess, it is impossible.
    But in your logic, you can redefine Islam. Congratulations.

    Why you are suprising, this is your logic.
    I was asking what you have in mind because your example was nonsensical and unrealistic.

    This is about language difference, I was talking about religion not a ethnic group. Jew and Jewish are different in Turkish. You are using "Moses Follower" (Musevilik) like Christ and Christian so of course there could be a Turk (ethnic) who doesn't believe in Quran and similarly, there could be a Jew (ethnic) who doesn't belive in Tora.
    But term Jews have double meaning. Btw, jewishness is based on religion.
    You can't be a Jew if your ancestors wasn't jews by faith. Term jew is an
    equivalent to a muslim or christian. Who is an ethnic Jew - no one really
    knows... probably such a person has to have primal genealogy do Jacob,
    but this is impossible. In such a case, only less than 14% (maybe 10%?
    maybe even much less) could be cout as ethnic Jew or Israelite...
    In Isarel are endless debates who the real jew is...

    Which century are you living bro ???
    What it has to do with theology and Holy Scriptures?
    And you want me maybe to tell, that ISIS does not
    exist because you are all living in XV century a.h.?

    Secondly who the hell are you decide my believe.
    I do not want to decide in what are you beliveng.
    You can even belive in some UFO-man or holy cow.
    This is your bussines. But if you are talking about
    Islam, who has his rules and regulations, holy books,
    and theology, then you must keep this, and making
    claims by the book. Because you did not invent Islam,
    and you are not an author of the book.

    Again I am telling you, just I can decide what my religion is, not you.
    No, but if you are telling me, that you are a m-u-s-l-i-m,
    then you must belive like Mohammed tells you to belive,
    exactly, as christian must belive as Moses, prophets and
    especially Jesus and apostles are telling in the scripture.

    Quran begins with word "read",
    In my Quran it is in the page 727 in XCVI chapter

    By the way, how Mohammed could read, if he was illiterate?

    so people should read, this is what my grand pa teached me,
    but there is no space for good things in your mind for a islam
    There are couple biblical thingns in Islam - for example killing idolates or sodomites.

    But Islam, as a religion is a suecide doctrine, because he is depending on the Bible.
    Even Koran says that if you do not understand somethnig - go to the christians, go
    to the Bible and look into the holy scriptures which they have... This green book is
    claiming, that is fully agreeable with the Bible - so, everyone can compare this two
    books - what I of course did and I am still doing - and make some conclusions.
    In VII century on the arabian desert it was impossible, because most of the people
    were pagans, and these who were christians didn't have a Bible in their posession.
    Jews, who probably had some scriptures, and were publicly saying that this what
    is preaching Mohammed is a nonsense - mix of pagan, gnostic and talmudic miths,
    he simply killed or enslaved. And it was the end of discussion about truth in Islam.

    or you have no idea about islamic view which is "love the all creatures, because of the creator"
    Please, give me the chapter, verse, and abrogetion rule to this fragment.

    and I don't think that you are showing same behaviour against racist Europeans who burn cars.


    1. Since when muslims are a... race?

    2. I didnt see a eurpeans who are burning cars in Ankara, or any other place...

    3. I didn't see christians who are blowing a buses in Riyyad...

    4. The most 'rasist' states in the world are muslim states... so ples, dont speak a nonsese about europeans...

    5. In Suadi Arabia if some Christian has a Bible or want to go to Mekka he is simply killing... so dont be a hipokryte...

    6. In islamic states, christians and Jews are... dhimmis... so do not be a hipokryte...

    7. In Islam, whites are devils, and blacks are second sort of people...

    So, what are you talking about?

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