Religion Can Muslims live peacefully with Christians, and vice versa?

[Yetos]

You either learn to write in readable English, or stop posting. The level of your English shows how much you are worth.

I am honored to hear that,

you understand them very well.

 

[Sile]

the heads of the eagle also represent the dual sovereignity of the Byzantine Emperor, with the left head representing Rome (the West) and the right head representing Constantinople (the East).

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Double-headed_eagle#Palaiologos_family

 

[LABERIA]

blah blah blah
Albanian imagination strikes again

which Roman emperror or general had twin head eagle?

No, the right question is another. Because you modern greeks consider ERE or the Bizantine Empire, an greek empire, can you tell me pls:
1)How greeks created this Empire?
2)Who were this greek Emperor(s) who created this greek empire?

 

[Yetos]

No, the right question is another. Because you modern greeks consider ERE or the Bizantine Empire, an greek empire, can you tell me pls:
1)How greeks created this Empire?
2)Who were this greek Emperor(s) who created this greek empire?

when you answer my question, I will think if I answer you.

 

[Ike]

No, the right question is another. Because you modern greeks consider ERE or the Bizantine Empire, an greek empire, can you tell me pls:
1)How greeks created this Empire?
2)Who were this greek Emperor(s) who created this greek empire?

1) No, they were Japanese, but they've chosen the territories of ancient Greece, and to speak in Greek language, just to make a confusion.
2) Hirohito d'Dorian

 

[Yetos]

For Greeks its hard to understand others history let alone Albanian history. I recommend you one famous Austrian historian named Fallmerayer. It will help you understand who the Greeks and Albanians are. Wikipedia is not a reliable source to refer to. Even Greeks write there. Imagine now the accuracy of Wikipedia.
As to double headed eagle of Albanian flag: Yes it originates in Roman times and it was adapted latter by the Church of Eastern Rites.

well you still did not answer us which Roman used that symbol?

 

[kyrani99]

For Greeks its hard to understand others history let alone Albanian history. I recommend you one famous Austrian historian named Fallmerayer. It will help you understand who the Greeks and Albanians are. Wikipedia is not a reliable source to refer to. Even Greeks write there. Imagine now the accuracy of Wikipedia.
As to double headed eagle of Albanian flag: Yes it originates in Roman times and it was adapted latter by the Church of Eastern Rites.

Understand history? You're the one with the problem. You cite an Austrian historian with a political agenda with racist motivations as a yardstick. His theory was nothing more than political writings aimed to seed hatred and since when do politicians talk straight? Most of them would even lie crooked in their coffin. And then you talk about comparing the Albanians with the Greeks, this is chalk and cheese.

The Albanians were a group of tribes living on the lands of Illyria. There were Celtic, Roman and Greek cities there and they were influenced by Hellenism from what I read but only credited with being able to make mead, wine from honey (and by fermentation no doubt, not by a blessing!). The Greeks gave the world literature, science, religion, philosophy, mathematics and so much more. Where's the comparison?

Fallmerayer's thesis appeared immediately with Greek independence and was aimed to cause hatred of Greece. He wanted to claim that Greece was not part of Europe and really Middle-Eastern in nature. His claim that "not the slightest drop of undiluted Hellenic blood flows in the veins of the Christian population of present-day Greece." And this hatred is there today from the Germanic section. They have done everything in their power to disadvantage Greece, especially with repeated refinancing of the loans and thus blowing them out of all proportions and then calling the Greeks names. Greece is the back gate of Europe. They need Greece secure and strong and able to cope with the flood of migration. Instead of that they are kicking their gate to bits. There is no puting the gate further up because further up open up bigger problems.

On what grounds do a people get defined by some "genetic purity"? All people interact with others and mix to some extent or other. There were influences in Ancient Greece from all the surrounding areas, from North Africa, especially Egypt right around the Mediterranean coast. There are battles fought and no matter which side wins there is intermarriage and genetic mixing.

I had some Pakistani friends in Sydney, one of whom had red hair. He told me that he was a decedent of Greeks that had conquered his area from the time of Alexander the Great. Does that make him less Pakistani. No! Every nation and every tribe is continually changing.


So to be Greek does not mean you have to be a some fantastical Hellenic prodigy that he fantasizes. This is the same mentality that I hear from some people in Australia. If you have one drop of Aboriginal blood then you are Aboriginal, not English or Irish or Italian or Greek or anything else "with a bit of Aboriginal blood". Absolutely not, you're Aboriginal. This is racism. And the converse is true too. There are many who have maybe even half non-Aboriginal blood but are still very much Aboriginal.

And even without mixing there is also genetic variations that take place so that the outer appearance may change enormously over the centuries.

However there is evidence that the Greeks are not over-run or diluted by Slavs or anyone else. There are small communities of Slav and Albanians and others in Greece and they have still a unique identity. They haven't all become one big mixing pot.

As for the ruling dynasty, that doesn't make a people some particular nationality. What you are trying to say is that because the early rulers of the Byzantine Empire were Romans then they were really all Romans. The British have a German dynasty or ruling class that doesn't change them to German. The British Raj in India didn't wipe out the Indian identity.

What Fallmerayer doesn't take into account is that the identity is not tied to the make up of the body. There is a lot of this being claimed in the biomedical sciences where the claim is that the body is a machine, that the mind is born out of the complexity of the brain and that is it.. you're a machine.. a robot. The reality however is very different. There are mental and spiritual planes that are not physical, and which play a bigger role in who a person is, and the identity of a race of people. The Intellectual brilliance, innate harmony and simplicity are not qualities of a machine.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I tried to read up on Albanian history but it is complex. However I researched the Wikipedia for the two-headed eagle.

The flag however was not used by the Romans initially. The Byzantines were Greek with a Roman emperor and ruling family. They used the single headed eagle for a long time and the two-headed eagle appeared appears in Byzantine artwork in the 10th century.

Your idea of the "two centers of the empire" is not quite what it was. Constantine saw an opportunity in remaining as emperor by leaving Rome after the Western Roman Empire had collapsed and as he had made himself the champion of the early Christians, who were Greeks (being killed by Romans), he was able to go East and build his city and become the emperor. But he did harm and he only got baptized on his death bed in the hope of getting salvation.

The first mention of a double-headed eagle in the West dates from 1250 as a symbol for Emperor Frederick II of the Holy Roman Empire.

The double-headed eagle -Wikipedia:

"originally dates from c. 3800 BC, and was the Sumerian symbol for the god of Lagash, Ninurta son of Enlil. It can also be seen in the same region in three monumental settings: Circa 1900 BC, during the Hittite surge from north-central Anatolia down into Babylonia; in Alacahöyük around 1400 BC; and in Yazilikaya before 1250 BC. Here the context looks slightly different and totally religious: The eagle returns to its ancient origins as a symbol of divine power. The two-headed eagle is seen less and less during the last Hittite period (from the 9th to the 7th century BC) and totally disappears after the end of the empire."

Also from Wikipedia:
"Lagash is an ancient city located northwest of the junction of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers i.e., Iraq
Ninurta was a Sumerian and the Akkadian god of hunting and war."

Interesting! And here is the "East and West"!

Wikipedia: "The double-headed eagle became the standard of the Seljuk Turks with the crowning of Tuğrul (meaning "Goshawk") Beg at Mosul in 1058 as "King of the East and the West" and was much used afterwards".

The flag was of Kastrioti noble family. I don't think they got that flag from the selguc Turks. There were many different medieval flags among the noble families of medieval Albanian lords. That flag become the national flag of Albanians by the Albanian patriots of renaissance. The ancient Roman heritage at Albanians it's yelling. I think the flag it's more connected to the Romans. But the people of east empire still felt as Romans, not as Greeks. Constantinople was a continuity of Rome. According to this, we assume that its origin is Roman.

 

[Piro Ilir]

thank you,

I apreciate that from a Normand or SLav who thinks he is autochthonous,

Norman? !!!! Do you have any knowledge about Albanian language?

 

[Piro Ilir]

@ Piro

so you made a post about Kastrioti statue at Skopjie,
But what about Basileus Phillp
tsar Dusan
tsar Samuel

don't you have something to add?

No. I am open minded. For me every ethnic minority of Macedonia should be respected. If in any part of Macedonia we have ethnic Serbs, they would be free to have the statue of their hero. Frankly I have a bad opinion about Stefan dushan, but this is how the world works. If you ask me, I hope for a Balkan state without borders.

 

[Piro Ilir]

the heads of the eagle also represent the dual sovereignity of the Byzantine Emperor, with the left head representing Rome (the West) and the right head representing Constantinople (the East).

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Double-headed_eagle#Palaiologos_family

Thank you. What's so hard to understand that two heads represented the new capital and the old one!!!! It's simple.

Besides this, there is another theory about that kind of eagle. It's the Pelasgian theory.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Understand history? You're the one with the problem. You cite an Austrian historian with a political agenda with racist motivations as a yardstick. His theory was nothing more than political writings aimed to seed hatred and since when do politicians talk straight? Most of them would even lie crooked in their coffin. And then you talk about comparing the Albanians with the Greeks, this is chalk and cheese.

The Albanians were a group of tribes living on the lands of Illyria. There were Celtic, Roman and Greek cities there and they were influenced by Hellenism from what I read but only credited with being able to make mead, wine from honey (and by fermentation no doubt, not by a blessing!). The Greeks gave the world literature, science, religion, philosophy, mathematics and so much more. Where's the comparison?

Fallmerayer's thesis appeared immediately with Greek independence and was aimed to cause hatred of Greece. He wanted to claim that Greece was not part of Europe and really Middle-Eastern in nature. His claim that "not the slightest drop of undiluted Hellenic blood flows in the veins of the Christian population of present-day Greece." And this hatred is there today from the Germanic section. They have done everything in their power to disadvantage Greece, especially with repeated refinancing of the loans and thus blowing them out of all proportions and then calling the Greeks names. Greece is the back gate of Europe. They need Greece secure and strong and able to cope with the flood of migration. Instead of that they are kicking their gate to bits. There is no puting the gate further up because further up open up bigger problems.

On what grounds do a people get defined by some "genetic purity"? All people interact with others and mix to some extent or other. There were influences in Ancient Greece from all the surrounding areas, from North Africa, especially Egypt right around the Mediterranean coast. There are battles fought and no matter which side wins there is intermarriage and genetic mixing.

I had some Pakistani friends in Sydney, one of whom had red hair. He told me that he was a decedent of Greeks that had conquered his area from the time of Alexander the Great. Does that make him less Pakistani. No! Every nation and every tribe is continually changing.


So to be Greek does not mean you have to be a some fantastical Hellenic prodigy that he fantasizes. This is the same mentality that I hear from some people in Australia. If you have one drop of Aboriginal blood then you are Aboriginal, not English or Irish or Italian or Greek or anything else "with a bit of Aboriginal blood". Absolutely not, you're Aboriginal. This is racism. And the converse is true too. There are many who have maybe even half non-Aboriginal blood but are still very much Aboriginal.

And even without mixing there is also genetic variations that take place so that the outer appearance may change enormously over the centuries.

However there is evidence that the Greeks are not over-run or diluted by Slavs or anyone else. There are small communities of Slav and Albanians and others in Greece and they have still a unique identity. They haven't all become one big mixing pot.

As for the ruling dynasty, that doesn't make a people some particular nationality. What you are trying to say is that because the early rulers of the Byzantine Empire were Romans then they were really all Romans. The British have a German dynasty or ruling class that doesn't change them to German. The British Raj in India didn't wipe out the Indian identity.

What Fallmerayer doesn't take into account is that the identity is not tied to the make up of the body. There is a lot of this being claimed in the biomedical sciences where the claim is that the body is a machine, that the mind is born out of the complexity of the brain and that is it.. you're a machine.. a robot. The reality however is very different. There are mental and spiritual planes that are not physical, and which play a bigger role in who a person is, and the identity of a race of people. The Intellectual brilliance, innate harmony and simplicity are not qualities of a machine.

According to the sources : there were no Greeks during the ottoman empire. The Christians of Aegean shores were calling themselves "romi" not Greek nor Helen. The inhabitants were ethnic Albanian vlachs, Greeks and Bulgarians. Indeed they didn't had any national identity. The word "Greek" , was implemented by the British empire.
There was not a cultural continuity between ancient hellenes and modern Greeks. The West created and supported a Disney land. It's called Greece.

 

[ΠΑΝΑΞ]

As it concerns about the flag, it is established from -Ισαάκιος Α' Κομνηνός. At that time there was no Rome -as we probably imagine- but Papal states instead.

I think that the double headed eagle could also possibly symbols the "Church" and the "State", that could be well confirmed from the manichastic ethical "trends" of that era.




@kyrani99 - "for President" ! an Oceanian breeze...

 

[kyrani99]

According to the sources : there were no Greeks during the ottoman empire. The Christians of Aegean shores were calling themselves "romi" not Greek nor Helen. The inhabitants were ethnic Albanian vlachs, Greeks and Bulgarians. Indeed they didn't had any national identity. The word "Greek" , was implemented by the British empire.
There was not a cultural continuity between ancient hellenes and modern Greeks. The West created and supported a Disney land. It's called Greece.

You are talking nonsense. The Greeks had three different names for themselves:
1. the Hellenes, which for early Christians was a name thought to be associated with idolatry.
2. the Romaioi, which named them as subjects of tyrants, namely the Romans
and
3. the Graikos, which is of ancient Greek origin. This word passed into Latin as Graecus and as other European countries have languages very greatly influenced by Latin you have the modern English work Greek and Greece.
It was not implemented by the British Empire because it was already used by Greeks living in Italy and outside of Greece generally, long before the Greek Revolution.

They certainly did have national identity and that is clear to see that the minority populations of Albanian, Vlachs and Bulgarians never mixed in to become one to this very day. The Greek culture and their language defined them from ancient times until today. It was religion that changed from pagan to Christian and now back to acknowledging the pagan while still remaining Christian. They were the early Christians (Hellenic Judaism and Gnosticism.) They were under the tyranny of Romans after they were invaded and overrun by the Romans and yet they retained their high ideals, their culture and their language.

You seem to want to associate the Greeks with the Romans who relished in blood sports killing hundreds of thousands of animals, throwing Christians to the lions and other wild animals to enjoy as spectacle. The Greeks never engaged in any such psychopathic garbage. You are trying to imply this with the use of the word Romi that they became Roman or were Roman. And by the way the Roman killed Jesus (if Jesus died on the cross, which I don't believe), whereas the Greeks highly valued him as a spiritual master and avatar of God.

The Romans took a lot from the Greeks and turned it upside down. To give another example. Dionysus was the God of the Wine, which is a symbol of Divine Bliss or ecstasy. The Roman took this and said "hmmm wine, this means debauchery and drunkenness" and adopting the name Bacchus. This is typical of all that they took from the Greeks. And it is the Europeans that have made a huge lie in justifying a Greco-Roman world. The reality is that much of what came to the west from Greece came via the Muslims, who had an appreciation of Hellenism and the values that the Greeks espouse to, but the West doesn't like to admit that its Greek roots come visa the Muslims.

The Disney land is in your head. You don't have a clue about history. You make it up as you feel inclined.

 

[kyrani99]

@kyrani99 - "for President" ! an Oceanian breeze...

You agree that Greece is a valuable asset of Europe if only they would be able to appreciate it. I was wondering what do you think should be Greece's relations with Turkey. I think if Greece was to encourage a cultural exchange with Turkey to foster better relationship between Greeks and Turks then Greece can have a trade treaty with Turkey and together become a trading gateway between East and West. Maybe then the Germans will be coming to us for loans!

 

[LeBrok]

You agree that Greece is a valuable asset of Europe if only they would be able to appreciate it. I was wondering what do you think should be Greece's relations with Turkey. I think if Greece was to encourage a cultural exchange with Turkey to foster better relationship between Greeks and Turks then Greece can have a trade treaty with Turkey and together become a trading gateway between East and West. Maybe then the Germans will be coming to us for loans!

I like this think positive attitude.

 

[Boreas]

You agree that Greece is a valuable asset of Europe if only they would be able to appreciate it. I was wondering what do you think should be Greece's relations with Turkey. I think if Greece was to encourage a cultural exchange with Turkey to foster better relationship between Greeks and Turks then Greece can have a trade treaty with Turkey and together become a trading gateway between East and West. Maybe then the Germans will be coming to us for loans!

I agree. Greece can't be rich without having strong conflict with Albania, Macedonia and Turkey (similar things for also Turkey).

 

[bicicleur 2]

You agree that Greece is a valuable asset of Europe if only they would be able to appreciate it. I was wondering what do you think should be Greece's relations with Turkey. I think if Greece was to encourage a cultural exchange with Turkey to foster better relationship between Greeks and Turks then Greece can have a trade treaty with Turkey and together become a trading gateway between East and West. Maybe then the Germans will be coming to us for loans!

do you trust Erdogan?

 

[Nobody1]

The Religion is not to blame; It is a noble Religion;
Handschar haHe;

The people who corrupt this Religion are the problem, Belgium is the problem;
Suharto and Atatürk have directed a society in splendor baring this religion; So also the Kurds and Iranians (Perisians); So also the Albanians in the Skënderbej legacy!
People are the Problem - look at what society the so-called Muslims created at Molenbeek - sponsored by the Belgium "Authorities" = pure filth; A farce a complete joke!

 

[Nobody1]

I would like to inform the public that i have received an infarction for my post;
Say something positive about Islam (a noble religion) and illustrate the truth one gets an infraction; These are now the standards!
I can only shake my head!