Crime 150+ dead after Terrorist attacks in Paris

[Yetos]

about 1 million have allready entered Europe this year and the stream doesn't stop
Europe has a very bad record in integrating immigrants, especially with Muslim background
ISIS fighters are recruited worldwide, it is estimated 25 % are European
the radicalisation started in mosques in Europe funded by Saudi-Arabia
this has been stopped now in Europe but internet is taking over
Saudi-Arabia doesn't want to recieve any refugee, they've proposed their 'contribution' by building new mosques in Germany, thank you very much
Saudi-Arabia has passed a new law now that considers atheism as terrorism, with death penalty for propagating atheism
Saudi-Arabia is still considered an ally by the US. When will they be stopped?
(if not, it is estimated Saudi-Arabia will be bankrupt within 5 years with current oil prices, so problem solved)
George W Bush does have a responsibility in the creation and growth of Al-Qaeda and ISIS, which he considered initialy as allies.
America and Europe have supported the 'Arabic Spring' which was an illusion and created more instability.
Obama prefers to look the other way instead of interfering.
Europe has lost all its fighting spirit since WW II and has been sitting under the American shelter all the time.
If Europe doesn't get his act together quickly it is a sitting duck.
The time to be nice and naive is over.

well I agree partially,

 

[Maciamo]

Two days ago I was saying this:

When you think that the majority of France's 5 million+ Muslims are poor and have values that clash with French or European values, I am actually surprised that terrorist attacks like this happen so infrequently. The last serious one was on Charlie Hebdo in January. Considering the heavy and constantly increasing tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims in Europe, if blood bathes like this do not happen at least once a month it means that the authorities are actually doing a a pretty good job at thwarting other planned attacks. I suppose that most of them are quietly muffled and go unreported so as not to scare the population. Only those that were thwarted in public, like the one in the Thalys train in August, make the news.

And this morning I see in the news that David Cameron admits that 7 Isis plots were thwarted in a year in the UK alone. Considering that France is the declared main target for Isis (see quote below) there were probably more thwarted attacks in France than in the UK over the past year.

“France and those who follow her voice must know that they remain the main target of Islamic State and that they will continue to smell the odour of death for having led the crusade, for having dared to insult our prophet, for having boasted of fighting Islam in France and striking Muslims in the caliphate with their planes,” the group said in a statement.

 

[bicicleur 2]

the soccer match Belgium-Spain for tonight is cancelled
apearantly security authorities must have picked up some plot
and yes, the situation in Brussels is totaly not under control

 

[Maciamo]

the soccer match Belgium-Spain for tonight is cancelled
apearantly security authorities must have picked up some plot
and yes, the situation in Brussels is totaly not under control

You may be right about the situation not being under control in Brussels. The Guardian explained how the Belgian state security only has some 600 employees and its military counterpart has a similar number. This is grossly insufficient for a city that is the seat of the EU and NATo and hosts 2,500 international agencies, 2,000 international companies and 150 international law firms. Why not set up EU-wide secret service and anti-terrorism agencies, each with a main branch in Brussels ? There is already a sort of counter-terrorism coordinator for the EU, but that's an administrative office, AFAIK. What is needed are well-trained troops and spies.

 

[Sile]

isn't it about time that the EU capital ( brussels) be moved to their other site in Strasbourg where the area can be monitored more efficiently!

As the Flemish say, the lazy French speaking Walloons don't care anything about Belgium.

 

[Angela]

isn't it about time that the EU capital ( brussels) be moved to their other site in Strasbourg where the area can be monitored more efficiently!

As the Flemish say, the lazy French speaking Walloons don't care anything about Belgium.

That was a totally unnecessary and distasteful remark. I'm sure the Walloons don't want to be killed as they sit in a restaurant or go to a concert or sports stadium.

These kinds of petty ethnic and sub-ethnic divisions are part of what makes it so hard for the EU to get their act together and come up with a clear, coherent, and united policy with regards to immigration and terrorism.

Good job in encouraging more of it.

 

[Maciamo]

isn't it about time that the EU capital ( brussels) be moved to their other site in Strasbourg where the area can be monitored more efficiently!

As the Flemish say, the lazy French speaking Walloons don't care anything about Belgium.

I agree with Angela that this was an unnecessary remark. Besides Walloons are people who live in Wallonia, and this includes some German speakers. Brussels is itself in Flanders and many French speakers there are Flemings who changed language over the centuries, as French was the official language of the court since the Renaissance (think Charles V of Habsburg, who grew up in Brussels) and of government later on (since the Austrian Netherlands in the 18th century). Many wealthier Walloon families, from the aristocracy to 19th-century industrialists, to modern CEO's moved to Brussels because it is the only seat of power in Belgium. Wallonia was historically richer than Flanders, but got poorer over time since the early 20th century as many of the richer families (and company HQs) moved to Brussels. The process is still happening today. Young ambitious Walloons keep moving to Brussels. The same thing happened in France with Paris. Flanders remained more decentralised like Germany.

The poorest cities of Wallonia, where the corrupted Socialist Party has had its power base for over half a century, are the Mons, Charleroi and Liège. The two latter are also the two largest city in Wallonia. Their population soared during the industrial revolution like Manchester and Birmingham, but in great part due to the influx of South Italian workers who came to work in the coal mines. Nowadays corruption and the success of the Socialist Party run so high in part because of their influence. The latter influx of Moroccan immigrants only fueled the political machine they set into motion and that is today partly responsible for protecting Islamist extremists in poorer districts of Brussels like Molenbeek.

A very big part of Belgium 's economic and political problems, including the rift between Flemish and French speakers, is caused by the Socialist Party and its mafia-like organization. It is the same kind of problems that make many North Italians want to secede from the South. Mafia is another form of terrorism, one that aims to weaken or disable the country's "immune system" so that it can prosper. Once a country, region or municipality has been infected, it will also become less efficient at fighting other forms of organized crimes, including Islamic terrorists. Molenbeek was ruled almost continuously by Socialists from 1939 to 2012, during which time it became infected by corruption, electoral fraud and protection of criminals and extremists in exchange for their community's votes. This article (in French) explains how many votes in Molenbeek had to be cancelled in 2012 (the year the Socialist Party lost its grip on the municipality) when it transpired that Socialist Party officials were accompanying local voters o the box at the polling place while giving them instructions in Arabic to vote for the Socialists. It's just one examples among many of how mafia methods are being used by the Socialists to gain votes.

The Socialists in Brussels also have a uniquely high percentage of members of North African descent. For example, exactly 50% of the 22 Socialist members of the Brussels Parliament have Muslim names. This is all the more surprising knowing that Muslims "only" make 25% of Brussels population and many of them do not have Belgian nationality and therefore cannot vote nor be elected. The Socialist Party rules in 7 of Brussels's 19 municipalities, and would have control over all the poorest, Muslim-dominated municipalities had it not lost Molenbeek because of the electoral fraud of 2012.

As for moving the EU capital to Strasbourg, it is ridiculous considering the huge investments that have been made to build EU institutions in Brussels over the last decades. Strasbourg is somewhat provincial in comparison and does not even have an international airport. The only reason Strasbourg was chosen as one of the EU seats is that both Germany and France wanted a city of their own, and Strasbourg has belonged in turns to both countries. Brussels was chosen because of its strategic geographic location, but also because it Belgium historically belonged to France, Italy (Romans), Germany, Spain, Austria and the Netherlands, and it shares its royal family with the UK. There is simply no other part of Europe with such an international background.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Brussels has 19 suburbs each with their own government and own police force
the total of the 19 police forces is 5000 which should be largely sufficient if they would cooperate and be independent of the 19 mayors
Molenbeek is the worst affected, but there are also other suburbs with similar problems
Belgium has become a federal state with a Flemish and a Walloon state
but Brussels in the middle got a seperate statute
it is a very expensive playgarden for local mayors and politicians and there is no political majority in Belgium that is able to dissolve it
it is simply disgusting, it is the result of the 'Belgian political compromises' of which many Belgian politicians are even proud of
then they can explain the press that they have put a very complicated and balanced solution in place, but in reality they haven't solved anything, they have created a sick system

 

[bicicleur 2]

You may be right about the situation not being under control in Brussels. The Guardian explained how the Belgian state security only has some 600 employees and its military counterpart has a similar number. This is grossly insufficient for a city that is the seat of the EU and NATo and hosts 2,500 international agencies, 2,000 international companies and 150 international law firms. Why not set up EU-wide secret service and anti-terrorism agencies, each with a main branch in Brussels ? There is already a sort of counter-terrorism coordinator for the EU, but that's an administrative office, AFAIK. What is needed are well-trained troops and spies.

they have no budget for it because they spend all the money for the unefficient gevernments and police forces of Brussels and its suburbs

one more thing, Belgium has one of the least efficient law systems
compared to it's neighbours it has the biggest number of judges and juridical administratives and the largest number of buildings
it has by far the highest number of lawyers per capita
Belgian law is overarduous in preventing innocents to be punished with very complicated procedures and numerous posibilities to go in appeal and to delay the whole process
the result is a mastodont system which all to often fails to condemn and punish the organised criminals
it goes without saying that every atempt to reorganise justice is opposed by both judges and lawyers
and the Belgian politicians who are so proud of their consensus and compromise model are unable to do what has to be done
Belgian politicians don't like solutions, they like complexity

 

[Alan]

I agree. But I still think this event should lead Germany and other to have stronger borders. Vast majority of refugees are fleeing war but a significant enough minority wants to bring war. A US anti-terrorism official suspects the terrorists were from Syria or Iraq. You living in Germany, are you going to ave second thoughts about going to any big gathering of people?

I am telling you this here and this as a Muslim, the problem are some "preachers" in those European countries. Youth, mostly "native" Muslims , are easy targets for them and being radicalized easily. Just remember like 30% of the whole ISIS members are straight out of Europe.

The governments need to take more care on these preachers. That is the only way to prevent this.

This is also the reason how rather democratic rebellions against dictatorial regimes in the Middle East turned into islamic uprisings. They are strong in equipment and they give the poor youth the "hope" they are searching for.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I am telling you this here and this as a Muslim, the problem are some "preachers" in those European countries. Youth, mostly "native" Muslims , are easy targets for them and being radicalized easily. Just remember like 30% of the whole ISIS members are straight out of Europe.

The governments need to take more care on these preachers. That is the only way to prevent this.

This is also the reason how rather democratic rebellions against dictatorial regimes in the Middle East turned into islamic uprisings. They are strong in equipment and they give the poor youth the "hope" they are searching for.

that is a problem and it was funded by Saudi Arabia and it is handled now, but internet is taking over
(and those 'poor' : most of them had opportunities, it is their choice)

but it is not the only thing
ISIS recrutes via many channels and from many different populations,
and besides ISIS , there is Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab

Paris is just some small tip of the iceberg
in 2014 over 32000 people were killed in terorrist attacks worldwide
in 2015 there will be many more

 

[Angela]

I find is sadly ironic that European governments and people excoriated the U.S. for over-reacting after 9/11, yet now that it has hit home in this way, although the dead number 140, not over 3,000, and the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe have not been reduced to rubble, France has suspended civil liberties to this extent.

This state of emergency under which the French are acting, and which Hollande proposes to extend, permits warrant less searches, curfews, etc. That never happened in the U.S. It would also be interesting to know what kind of interrogation techniques are being used. Mind you, I'm not necessarily quarreling with the French decisions.

It's just amazing how looking at the bullet riddled or blown apart bodies of your innocent neighbors, or people who might have been your friends throwing themselves out of skyscrapers to escape a fiery inferno, in our case, can change one's perspective.

One thing that is missing in the conversations in Europe perhaps, but is not missing in conversations in the U.S. , is how did ISIS grow from a few dozen fighters to the numbers we see today, and how did this refugee crisis get so out of hand.

A great part of the responsibility for all of this lies with Barack Obama and his policies, with which Europe was complicit. In fact, Europe was the first to withdraw from the mission. I'm not going to argue that it was a good idea to invade Iraq. Had the intelligence not showed that Iraq had WMD, I'm convinced that Bush would not have gone in. Having gone in you're then committed to the outcome. If you break it, you have a responsibility to not let the situation get worse. Iraq went so badly wrong in the beginning because President Bush, apparently under the advice of Rumsfeld, didn't put in the number of troops the generals requested. After President Bush, contrary to U.S. public opinion and all the Democrats (including Barack Obama) sent in more troops, the so called "surge", things stabilized. Once Obama came into office, it was all about fulfilling his promises to the American left to withdraw.

The U.S. has had tens of thousands of troops in between North Korea and South Korea since 1951. No one has proposed withdrawing them. There have always been thousands in Germany to deter the Russians.There was no reason that ten thousand or more troops couldn't have been kept in Iraq other than his, and the left's in general warped world view that the world's problems are the result of American control. The problems come when America doesn't lead. And I really don't want to hear that the Iraqi leader didn't want us there. When you telegraph to these leaders of unstable governments that you're going to leave them high and dry if not this month then in six months, what do you expect them to do? They're going to make a deal with whatever other strong force is willing to support them in maintaining power.

Had those troops been in place, ISIS could have been destroyed when they were still a rag tag bunch in the dessert. If Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had not totally bungled the Libya situation there would not have been that mass exodus into Europe. Had they had troops on the ground, or at least special forces, their bombing raids might have actually been able to drop bombs on real targets instead of coming back without having dropped a single bomb. I'm no big fan of John McCain for a lot of reasons, but five years ago he said that the U.S. and Nato should have created a no fly zone in the Near East for refugees where they would be safe while ISIS was dealt with. The thought was that it would be similar to the protected Kurdish areas. Had that been done, those hundreds of thousands of refugees wouldn't have headed for Europe. Had the Kurds been armed, some things might have been different. It's not that I don't understand the hesitation given the different Kurdish factions and being unclear about the ultimate motivations of some of them, but sometimes you have to deal with one risk at a time. They've been treading water in Syria for five years, just hoping to get through without an attack on U.S. soil and then dump the problem on the next President.

Now they've reaped the whirlwind, but not one word of apology for misguided decisions, seemingly no sense of guilt for the suffering of all these millions of people in the Near East, not one word about changing the strategy. Instead, we get a statement that the policy is WORKING, and that the Paris attacks are a SETBACK. It's sickening.

That also brings me to the NATO situation. NATO should be taking the lead on this. Why haven't they invoked Article 5? Is it because of Turkey? They should never have been allowed in NATO if that's the case. If you're not committed to the principles of NATO you shouldn't be in NATO. I sincerely hope that it isn't the Obama administration that is preventing this. What a disgrace if that's the case.

Ed. @Bicicleur,
If the mosque problem had been taken care of, then Hollande wouldn't be saying they may have to close some mosques. From what I understand, it's certainly still going on in Britain. Even in the U.S., the NYPD, the best in the world, in my opinion, in these matters, had a program directed at them, until our new idiot Democrat Mayor, DiBlasio, stopped it.

Ed. A word about the acceptance of refugees in the U.S. My heart breaks for these people, but the only ones who can be accepted are the ones for whom we have virtual certainty that they don't have terrorist ties. I'm afraid that means no single men, only family groups, and yes, CHRISTIAN family groups should receive priority. What are people thinking? When records are scant, you do profiling. Profiling works. Ask the Israelis. Christian families coming with their local priest in village groups DON'T FIT THE PROFILE. Have people lost all common sense?

 

[Tchek]

isn't it about time that the EU capital ( brussels) be moved to their other site in Strasbourg where the area can be monitored more efficiently!

As the Flemish say, the lazy French speaking Walloons don't care anything about Belgium.

What the hell. Stop reading Vlaams Belang bullshit. "Lazy Walloons"... my god...

First, Walloons have nothing to do with Brussels, second the Flemish are far more responsible for giving up Brussels and leaving it on its own; this has been largely explained for years by Charles Picqué the former mayor of the city, who saw Flemish linguistic nationalism around Brussels as a way to create a border around Brussels and force the inner-city to deal on its own with the massive muslim immigration which ended up trapped and piling up disproportionally within a very small area; since immigrants come from former French-speaking colonies.
If you add the massive wealth flight from Brussels to Flanders due to the tax system (taxes are benefitting the zone of residence of the workers, not the zone of the workplace, leaving inner Brussels very empoverished), then if "indifference" exists, it's the Flemish toward Brussels.

 

[LeBrok]

I am telling you this here and this as a Muslim, the problem are some "preachers" in those European countries. Youth, mostly "native" Muslims , are easy targets for them and being radicalized easily. Just remember like 30% of the whole ISIS members are straight out of Europe.

One of goals of ISIS is to cause a global (biblical-end of the world) war of Christians against Muslims. Recent attacks are meant to anger Christians against Muslims. If Christians (Europeans) respond with vengeance against all Muslims, and more Muslim will be scared of their lives, the more new recruits ISIS will get.
To fight ISIS we have to do the opposite. We need to show that Muslims and Christians can live and work together, especially against all forms of hate and extremism.

In one of Canadian town a Mosque was firebombed by someone, just few days ago. Local United Church offered a space for Muslims to pray till the mosque is fixed. Crowed fundraising already collected all the money to fix it. Now, this is example of multiculturalism at its best, and behavior ISIS hates.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/06/26/mississauga-mosque-helps-vandalized-church-clean-up.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/11/16/fundraising-surges-for-torched-peterborough-mosque.html

The governments need to take more care on these preachers. That is the only way to prevent this.

How many times it has to be said that we should concentrate on a source of this extremism and radicalism, and the ones who funds these operations.

Mostefai was described as friendly, religious and a talented footballer, but his views became increasingly extreme in 2009. French papers reported he had fallen under the spell of a radical Belgian imam of Morrocan origin at his mosque in the Luce suburb of Chartres. Another French jihadist who was later killed in Syria lived only a few streets from Mostefai, who moved on from Chartres in 2012.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-attack-what-we-know-about-the-suspects.html

 

[Goga]

One of goals of ISIS is to cause a global (biblical-end of the world) war of Christians against Muslims. Recent attacks are meant to anger Christians against Muslims.

You're overestimating the Sunni Muslim world a lot, lol!!!

The Western Christian world together with Russia can finish off the whole Sunni Muslim world just in few weeks if necessary.

 

[LeBrok]

You're overestimating the Sunni Muslim world a lot, lol!!!

The Western Christian world together with Russia can finish off the whole Sunni Muslim world just in few weeks if necessary.

So your solution is annihilation of entire religious group. Killing one billion Sunni Muslims is your goal?

 

[Goga]

So your solution is annihilation of entire religious group. Killing one billion Sunni Muslims is your goal?

After the WW2 NAZI-Germany and Japan was NOT annihilated, right? Just stop buying oil from the Arab world. Just 80 years ago Arabs were nobody. They were seen as subhumans. And nobody feared them. The Western World made them somebody. Big mistake!

There's more oil in Venezuela, Iran and Kurdistan.


The Arabs and Turks betrayed the Western world. And they will do it again if they get a chance. Stop invest in them and stop giving them money then everything will be just fine and normal again.

 

[bicicleur 2]

What the hell. Stop reading Vlaams Belang bullshit. "Lazy Walloons"... my god...

First, Walloons have nothing to do with Brussels, second the Flemish are far more responsible for giving up Brussels and leaving it on its own; this has been largely explained for years by Charles Picqué the former mayor of the city, who saw Flemish linguistic nationalism around Brussels as a way to create a border around Brussels and force the inner-city to deal on its own with the massive muslim immigration which ended up trapped and piling up disproportionally within a very small area; since immigrants come from former French-speaking colonies.
If you add the massive wealth flight from Brussels to Flanders due to the tax system (taxes are benefitting the zone of residence of the workers, not the zone of the workplace, leaving inner Brussels very empoverished), then if "indifference" exists, it's the Flemish toward Brussels.

don't reply to bullshit with other bullshit

 

[bicicleur 2]

If Christians (Europeans) respond with vengeance against all Muslims, and more Muslim will be scared of their lives, the more new recruits ISIS will get.

Many European Muslims went to fight in Syria, but none of them because they were attacked and or threatened by Christians or anybody else.

Of course there should be no vengeance, but we should expect from those Muslims to pay respect to the country that hosted them.

Listen to the words this wise Muslim had to say after the attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris in january :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77L7WGJY1B0

At least this man acknowledges that these are Muslims, they are convinced by an ideology which gets their inspiration from the Quran, without it ISIS wouldn't be able to attract these people who are prepared to commit suicide to kill others.
Muslims should be aware of that and act against radical views, they should be in the first fighting line against it. But to many of them are convinvced of Muslim supremacy, I'm afraid it there is lack of self-criticism.

After Charlie Hebdo, many Muslims (not a small minority) claimed it was justified to kill the Charlie Hebdo reporters because they had insulted Islam.
Those people don't belong here. That should be made clear. We have been far to tolerant with these people. I am afraid a lot of the harm is done.

 

[Angela]

You gotta love Jersey. lol

Governor Chris Christie on the President excoriating Republicans for calling for a pause in the acceptance of Syrian refugees (or increased background checks) and doing it while on foreign soil.

"He needs to get some sleep and shut up."

Senator Cruz:

"Why don't you come back and insult me to my face."

Trump:

"He just doesn't get it."

Our clueless Secretary of State just stepped in it too. Attacking Charlie Hebdo had "legitimacy"...uh no, I mean a rationale." Maybe it was legitimate to a lot of Muslims. It's not legitimate and there's no rationale in a secular, open, society that would justify killing people because they insult your religion, and that applies to Christianity as well as Islam.

Just saw a very sobering news item by an American reporter who has been interviewing young men in that Brussels suburb. He said almost without exception they say they don't feel Belgian, they don't feel European, the country has never accepted them or made them feel welcome, and the attacks in Paris were justified. Fans in Turkey booed the Marseillaise.

I don't even know what to say. Forget about trying to assign blame for past policies. What is to be done now?