Crime 150+ dead after Terrorist attacks in Paris

Or maybe becasue you want proof, that you know better that Mohammed, what Islam is about?

Not mine, but islamic. This is a logic of Mohammed.
I never deny, that exists muslims like you, who want do what they want,
against teachings of Mohammed and still call themaselves muslims.
But according to standarts of Mohammed you are an apostate.

If, as a Christian you are stilling on the high ground of morality maybe you'd have something to say but you seem to have forgotten the huge atrocities that the Christians have done, not even for apostasy but for refusing to become a Christian. Hundreds of thousands were burnt alive at the stake all across Western Europe and thousands more in distant lands were killed by the missionaries.

Oh that was in the past you say, just consider though the Muslims have a long, long way to go to catch up in the numbers killed by Christians. Every religion is evolving and every peoples are changing. To be clear sighted better to give support to those that lead the way to change than condemn them because you see fit to condemn.
 
What are you talking about ...The muslim women due to the fact they are second or third class citizens in the society are already walking around as if they are on death row

You are incredle.

FT_15.07.24_womenLeadersMap.png


So Modern Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia have been ruled by womens which makes nearly 37% of all Muslims (according to current populations)

How do you explain it? Do 37% of Muslim some kind of masochist so they were ruled by women (who were second class citizen) ?

Not mine, but islamic. This is a logic of Mohammed.
I never deny, that exists muslims like you, who want do what they want,
against teachings of Mohammed and still call themaselves muslims.
But according to standarts of Mohammed you are an apostate.

How do you know mohammed's idea what much certainly, are you talking with him in your dream? :grin:


Btw - you cannot disscuse with Mohammed.

Yes, I can.

Let me help you to understand, Quran was written after the Muhammed, so I can totally say that Muhammed didn't see this Quran and didn't give his approval.

Even Satan has been tried to get in Quran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses

Or there is also goat issue. A goat ate some parts (which is about stoning) of Quran(before collecting and making a book) etc...
 
kyrani99 said:
and thousands more in distant lands were killed by the missionaries.

^ I think you are confusing missionaries with conquistadores.
:LOL:

A "subtle" difference. Like between U.S. Marines and U.S. pastors... :LOL:

kyrani99 said:
the Muslims have a long, long way to go to catch up in the numbers killed by Christians.
Muslims have already killed much more in the name of Muhammad, than Christians have ever killed for Christ.

kyrani99 said:
Every religion is evolving and every peoples are changing.

Some are doing this way too slowly, and some in the wrong direction (e.g. Islam seems to be becoming more violent).

BTW - there were studies which
measured how level of religious devotedness correlates with violence. And guess what, Devoted Jews and Devoted Christians were not more violent than those without strong faith, while in case of Muslims there was a positive correlation - the more Devoted a Muslim is, the more violent he/she is. Maybe because Jesus was a socialist-pacifist hippie, who never harmed a fly and let himself get crucified, while Muhammad was a ruthless conqueror! Islam is not a religion of peace.

The essential difference between Christianity and Islam is in the very core roots of these religions.

Take a look at the biography of Jesus, then take a look at the biography of Muhammad...

For instance - Jesus preached pacifism, Muhammad preached (and practiced!) war.
 
How do you know mohammed's idea what much certainly, are you talking with him in your dream? :grin:

Mohammeds idea it is this, what we have anout this: Koran and Sunna.

Yes, I can.

You can everything. You can even not beliving in Allah and Mohammed and call yourself muslim. You can everything. But this what you wish to do dosnt mean that this is islamic teaching. If you are trying say, that in Islam are no standards at all - if so it is indeed, go and preach this Idea in your neighbour mosque and in Mekka. If you do this, and you still will be alive, than I admitt my mistake. Until this better say nothing more, becasue you are talking nonsense.

Let me help you to understand, Quran was written after the Muhammed, so I can totally say that Muhammed didn't see this Quran and didn't give his approval.

As I said above, you can claim what you wish, but it not necessary means that this is islamic.
Islam means, that you belive in Koran and Sunna as trustworthy sources of faith. It does not
matter even what is the truth, because, Islam don't care about truth - muslim must belive like
that becasue this is sense of any faith - to belive. If you want be like stupid and hypocythe
christians, who don;t belive in Bible - you can be, but do not tall me, that this is Islam, and if
it is Islam indeed - go to Mekka and loudly preach this, and will see, how long will you preaching
this your real Islam...

Even Satan has been tried to get in Quran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses

He not only try to get to Koran, but he is probably the author of most part of this book if not all.
But I think, that Satan is not so stupid, to make such idiotic mistakes, as authors of Koran did, so
he is probably an inspirator, and author on most part, but this also gives him credit as author of all.

Or there is also goat issue. A goat ate some parts (which is about stoning) of Quran(before collecting and making a book) etc...

And you still belive in such goat-faith, or you are only pretending?
 
For instance - Jesus preached pacifism, Muhammad preached (and practiced!) war.

Jesus preached peacefully, and Mohammed preached violently.

Jesus neither preached pacifism neither was a pacifist.

But the fruit of Jesus's teachings is peace, and fruit of Mohammed teachings is non ending violance.

This is the difference.
 
There is no place here for comments to the effect that Satan wrote the Holy Book of another religion.

Perhaps members should be reminded that if you accumulate enough infractions it results in an automatic ban.
 
Conquistadores not missionaries.. what!



^ I think you are confusing missionaries with conquistadores.
:LOL:

A "subtle" difference. Like between U.S. Marines and U.S. pastors... :LOL:

Muslims have already killed much more in the name of Muhammad, than Christians have ever killed for Christ.

Columbus was a slave trader and Holy Crusader. The conquest of the "New World" was understood as a way of propagate Christianity, to teach the gospel to the ends of the earth. And there is evidence in that Columbus described the native Indians as "idolators" and "slaves.

By the end of the 16th century 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas and just prior to and including that time more than 60,000,000 natives were dead."
An estimated total of around 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, some by direct violence (50 million) but most because they were forced to live under intolerable fear for extended periods of time.....by Christians!

The argument that 2/3rds died because of the colonists brought smallpox from Europe and they had no immunity to this. Hogwash!

Scientific evidence.
1. no one is infectious of any microorganism EXCEPT during the time of infection and illness. The Spaniards were not sick. They were healthy otherwise they would not have even crossed the ocean. This is evidence that the natives could not have been infected by any European bugs.

2. Immunity is declined during times of extreme fear especially over an extended period of time. This is clear that there had to have been violence right from the start. At least there would have been enough violence as to have the natives held in fear of their lives for extended periods of time.

3. With immunity declined they would have died of any infection, even those that they would have antibodies because the immune system is not active. Clearly the smallpox story is a lie.

The conquistadors saw these deaths a boon, a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God". They were happy that "the natives, are near all dead of the smallpox (so they claimed), so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." This is not missionary????

As for US pastors and US marines, mostly they are different and I feel sure that most of them are good and carry out their different duties honorably but there are some that are similar, eg Jim Jones was hardly a nice guy and we can find many accounts of marines that were violent outside of the call of duty.
 

Muslims have already killed much more in the name of Muhammad, than Christians have ever killed for Christ.

The problem is that Christians don't like to see or even report on the atrocities they have committed but only to look at others.
1349 in about 350 towns in Germany all Jews were murdered, mostly burned alive. In that year more Jews were killed by Christians than in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians.

Catholic extermination camps
The Nazi extermination camps in World War II were not the only ones in Europe. In the years after the war ( 1942-1943 ) there were concentration camps in Croatia. They were run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor of the pope at that time. There were even concentration camps for children!

The most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar. Here orthodox-Christian serbians and a large number of Jews were murdered. Like the Nazis, the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, but where the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first, the Catholic Ustasha burnt them alive. The number of victims has been estimated to be between 300,000 and 600,000, in what is a tiny country. Many of the murderers were Franciscan friars and the pope knew about these atrocities and did nothing to stop them.

The begining of the Crusaders in Western Europe, when they captured Béziers in the heart of Cathar territory they followed the instructions of a papal legate. And when asked how the Crusaders should distinguish the heretics from true Christians he supposed have said, “Kill them all. God will know his own.” They massacred almost the entire population of the city.
The last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. An estimate of those killed in Cathar alone is one million.

This was the beginning of the Inquisition conducted by the judicial system of the Roman Catholic Church to combat heresy. And heresy in their way of thinking was anything that opposed their views. This was a period of 600 years of persecution for the sake of heresy, the "you got it wrong its not this it's that" far less than apostasy.

Those destroyed for heresy were the Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects were exterminated.

Then there is the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to some scholars this also runs into the millions (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.

If we add in the Asia-Pacific region and Africa we get many more millions.
It is not hard to find that there are more Christian murders for heresy and for not converting to the faith than there is Muslims for Apostasy. And we must take into account that many of the Muslim violence took place because of sociopolitical issues that were taking place. We tend to ignore this and blame Muslims indiscriminately.
 
Mohammeds idea it is this, what we have anout this: Koran and Sunna.

At least, a guy who was born in a muslim community. I have more right to say that. (y)


 
Jesus preached peacefully, and Mohammed preached violently.

Jesus neither preached pacifism neither was a pacifist.

But the fruit of Jesus's teachings is peace, and fruit of Mohammed teachings is non ending violance.

This is the difference.

You only kid yourself. He was a definition of pacifist.
Jesus taught that the right response to aggression is love, not hate.
“Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:39
“Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.”
Matthew 5:44
“Blessed are the peacemakers”
Matthew 5:9
“Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you.”
John 14v27
When Jesus was arrested, he would not let his disciples use violence to prevent his arrest:
“Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. ‘Put your sword back in its place,’ Jesus said to him, ‘for all who live by the sword will die by the sword.’ Enough of this, stop it!”
Luke 22:49-51
Christians who try to follow Jesus’ example might say that because Jesus would not allow people to use violence to defend him, then violence is wrong, and that peaceful methods should be used.
http://www.rsrevision.com/GCSE/christian_perspectives/peace/pacifism/bible.htm
 
Then there is the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to some scholars this also runs into the millions (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.

Very bad scholars, one may add. Scholars that tend to extrapolate where such a thing is not possibly. After regarding such numbers with scrutiny it turns out these "scholars" lumped demographic demise caused by such things as plague together with their figures.
 
kyrani99 said:
Catholic extermination camps

The Nazis disliked the Catholic Church, most of their supporters were Lutherans.

Share of Nazi votes was inversely proportional to share of Catholics in the population:

JK67iaA.jpg


And here an even better map, showing the same correlation between Protestant population and support for Nazis:

LINK

(...) This map shows the influence of religious conviction on the Nazi vote for the Reichstag election 7/32. Elevation represents the share of Catholics / protestants (the higher, the more Catholics live in a Kreis / county) in relation to total population. The Nazi vote share is represented by different color shadings (dark red: highest NSDAP share; light green: lowest NSDAP share). The map reveals that the NSDAP strongholds are clearly restricted to protestant areas. This becomes very clear e.g. in East Prussia, where in a small catholic enclave the NSDAP performed very poorly in comparison to the surrounding Kreise dominated by protestants. It is also inportant to note that of the 21 Nazi Germans tried as war criminals at Nuremberg 16 indicated they were "Protestant." Lets Look at three of the most distinguished German Protestant theologians--Gerhard Kittel, Paul Althaus, and Emanual Hirsch. These men were highly respected, extremely erudite, uncommonly productive, and internationally known professors, each at a different, first-class university. (...)

Protnazi10.jpg


And by the way - camps were neither "Protestant" (though supported by Protestants), nor "Catholic" - but GERMAN.

And "German" is not a religion.
 
kyrani99 said:
Here orthodox-Christian serbians and a large number of Jews were murdered.

Now check how many Serbs and Jews in WW2 were murdered by Muslim Bosniaks and Muslim Albanians.

There were Muslim Waffen SS Divisions serving as allies of the Nazi Germany - for example SS "Skanderberg".

I don't even count killings by Muslim in WW2 as "victims of Islam", because they were not motivated by religion. I count only victims in the name of Allah as victims of Islam. SS "Skanderberg" killed in the name of a racial ideology, not Islam. That said, most of people ever killed by people who happened to be Christians, were also killed not because of religion. For example Germans decided to exterminate Jews, Slavs and Gypsies in WW2 due to their Scientific Racism Ideology, not because they happened to be Protestants.

kyrani99 said:
If we add in the Asia-Pacific region and Africa we get many more millions.

"The death toll from 14 centuries of the Muslim slave trade in Africa is estimated at over 112 million":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31E1gHowYcA#t=513

Add to this the death toll from 14 centuries of the Muslim slave trade in Europe, which was also many millions.
 
^ Not to mention victims of Muslim slavery in Asia, including India, who also numbered many millions.

kyrani99 said:
By the end of the 16th century 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas and just prior to and including that time more than 60,000,000 natives were dead."

These are some absurd numbers (the latter one is absurd).

kyrani99 said:
An estimated total of around 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, some by direct violence (50 million) but most because they were forced to live under intolerable fear for extended periods of time.....by Christians!

The argument that 2/3rds died because of the colonists brought smallpox from Europe and they had no immunity to this. Hogwash!
There were never 150 million people in the Americas before Columbus.

Not even the highest estimates claim that 150 million people lived there:

Here some good demographic estimates: http://www.ggdc.net/MADDISON/other_books/appendix_B.pdf

And most of those people lived in South America and Mesoamerica.

In North America north of Rio Grande there were 1,5 - 3,5 million people.
 
kyrani99 said:
Scientific evidence.
1. no one is infectious of any microorganism EXCEPT during the time of infection and illness. The Spaniards were not sick. They were healthy otherwise they would not have even crossed the ocean. This is evidence that the natives could not have been infected by any European bugs.

There is a thing called "incubation period", which is time between the actual infection, and first symptoms of a disease:

https://www.google.pl/search?client...F-8&oe=UTF-8#q=incubation+period+for+smallpox

On average, the time between coming in contact with the smallpox virus and developing symptoms (the incubation period) is 12 days. The incubation period ranges from 7 to 17 days. The first symptoms of smallpox are high fever, fatigue, headaches, and backaches.

Then of course between first symptoms and death (or getting healthy again) there was also a long time.

They could get on board without knowing they were sick, develop first symptoms half-way, and still get to the New World.
 
Now check how many Serbs and Jews in WW2 were murdered by Muslim Bosniaks and Muslim Albanians.

There were Muslim Waffen SS Divisions serving as allies of the Nazi Germany - for example SS "Skanderberg".

Honestly i do not know where to check. You look more informed. Can you help us by bringing this information? It`s the only way to make credible this post.
What i know is that during WWII, several Albanians partisan brigades from Albania and Kosova, continued to pursue and develop battle with the Nazis until the complete liberation of Yugoslavia. These units conducted fighting until Visegrad Bosnia. Many Albanian partisans gave their lives and blood for the liberation of Yugoslavia. When these units with Albanian partisans retreated to Albania after the end of hostilities, the Serbian Communists treacherous as they are as a nation, started to commit atrocities against Albanians of Kosova. This is History, and not BS.
About the jews, it is a known fact that the Albanians protected the jews during WWII. This fact is recognized by the State of Israel and Jewish organizations around the world.

So you have to check well your sources.
 
Anyway history is irrelevant to this debate.

There is no problem of Christian terrorism in the world today.

We are dealing with Islamic terrorism now.
 

First of all i want to make clear that is out of my interest what happened between serbs and other south slavs, musslims and catholics. I am speaking about albanians.
Personaly i don`t prefer to use Wiki. I can enter now and edit the pages posted by you.
Let see what british military sources have to say:
1945
Ralph Skrine Stevenson:
Kosova in the spring of 1945


The Second World War ended in Europe on 7 May 1945. German forces had withdrawn from Kosova on 19 November 1944 on their retreat northwards, leaving the region in a state of confusion and uncertainty. British career diplomat, Ralph Skrine Stevenson, who had served in Spain during the Spanish Civil War and was later to become British Ambassador to Egypt, was in Yugoslavia after the German withdrawal and sent the following report to the Foreign Office, describing the turbulent state of events in Kosova and western Macedonia in the spring of 1945.

Belgrade, 21th April, 1945
1. I have the honour to report that there have recently been a number of indications that in the last few months there has been serious unrest amongst the Albanian population of the Kosovo and Metohija, and the north-western corner of Macedonia
2. The areas in question have throughout the war been in the main hostile to the Yugoslav Army of National Liberation and it appears that up to the present the partisan movement has found little sympathy or understanding there. This is due to a number of factors, the chief of which was the repression of the Albanian minority by the Yugoslav Government between 1920 and the present war.
3. In the face of this strong opposition, the partisan movement in the Kosovo never reached considerable proportions. From 1941 efforts had been made to enlist some support amongst the Albanians and in that year, two delegates from Tito, Ali Dusanovic and Miladin Popovic, are believed to have attended a conference of the Albanian Communist party. They were arrested in Albania in 1942 but escaped with the help of Albanian Communists, and apparently continued to maintain contact between the Yugoslav partisans and the Albanian Communist party and to try to build up the partisan movement in the Kosovo and Metohija. Towards the end of 1943, the first was heard of Kosmet, the staff of the Yugoslav Army of National Liberation for the Kosovo and Metohija. This was responsible directly to Tito and consisted half of Serbs and half of Albanians, amongst whom were Mehmet Hoxha and Fadil Hoxha. Kosmet was forced to confine itself to political activity, mainly trying to abate anti-Serb feeling among the Kossovars. Some attempt was made to set up a partisan political organisation in the Kosovo, and a few National Liberation committees were formed. Contact was maintained with the Serbian, Montenegrin and Macedonian partisans, and in 1944 a conference was held at Kolgecaj which the Serbian and Montenegrin partisans attended.
4. Despite the lack of military activity in the Kosovo, Kosovo units fought from an early date with the Yugoslav Army of National Liberation both in Macedonia and Serbia under the command of the headquarters for these areas. In 1942, two Kosovo battalions formed in the hills west of Tetovo and fought with the 1st Macedonian Brigade until transformed into the 1st Kosovo Brigade, about 800 strong, in June 1944.Another Kosovo brigade, some 400 strong, formed probably in the Skopska Crna Gora, was, in the early part of 1944, in the area east of the Nis-Skoplje railway. Part of the Kosmet staff were located in Serbian territory south of the Radan, protected by a battalion of about 100 Kossovars.
The partisan forces in the Kosovo remained, however, weak, and failed to bring in with them any other resistance movements, of which the most important was built up by Gan Kryeziu, a Kosovo landowner from the Djakovica area. Relations between Kryeziu and Kosmet were correct and occasional military operations are thought to have been carried out together, but because of his failure to join them, Kryeziu incurred the dislike of Kosmet, who are believed to have threatened his life. Furthermore, the attempts of the Yugoslav Army of National Liberation to send troops into the Kosovo were not successful. The resistance put up by the Kossovar frontier guards was fanatical, and in May the 2nd Corps, attempting to break through Montenegro, and in July the Serbian forces of Lieutenant-General Popovic advancing from the north on to Gnjiline, were driven back.
In general, the majority of the partisans, who had much to do with the Albanian minority during the war, such as General Vukmanovic Tempo, often stated that they were unregenerate bandits who must be brought to heel by harsh methods when the country was liberated. The Albanian minority in north-west Macedonia, many of whom belonged to the Bal Kombetar, were particularly regarded as brigands.
5. The fact that Kosmet was able to exist at all in the Kosovo was probably due to the support of the F.N.C. in Albania. So close was the liaison of Kosmet with the F.N.C. that British officers who penetrated the Kosovo at the end of 1943 believed Kosmet to be an offshoot of the F.N.C. The F.N.C. appear, however, to have recognised that Kosmet formed part of the Yugoslav Army of National Liberation rather than of their own forces and, during the summer of 1944, Hoxha publicly recognised Kosmet and recognised Kosovo as belonging to Tito's sphere of influence. From Macedonia, constant contact was maintained with the F.N.C. by Tempo and in the summer of 1944, joint operations were undertaken by units of the F.N.C. and of the Yugoslav Army of National Liberation against the Germans and Bal Kombetar in north-west Macedonia.
9. In the Kosovo, Miladin Popovic, Tito's early envoy to the Albanian partisans, was assassinated in Pristina on the 12th March.
Trouble, seems to have continued in north-west Macedonia, and on the 7th April, two O.Z.N.A. (police) brigades appeared in Skoplje in answer to a request from the Macedonian Federal Government for reinforcements. The area, bounded by the Albanian frontier, Sar Mountains, Skoplje, Karabzica Mountains, Brod, Kicevo, and inclusive of Tetovo and Gostivar to Debar, was reported on the 16th April to be a war zone owing to the alarming proportions which the Albanian rising there had assumed. Large forces were engaged, including the 1st Skoplje Cavalry Brigade, the 8th, 9th and 16th Macedonian Brigades, and other unidentified troops from the Bitolj area.
7,000 Albanians were alleged to have been imprisoned in Tetovo and large numbers of Albanians from the Skoplje area to have taken to the woods, 140 having deserted from the municipal power station in one day. In Skoplje itself there were continual rumours of Albanian trouble and 12,000 Albanians were stated to have been forcibly deported from the Kumanovo, Gnjiline and Vranje area to the Banat. There is little independent confirmation of these reports, but towards the end of March, there was talk in Belgrade of Albanians being marched northwards through the town under guard, and an American report of cases of typhus among Albanians in the Banat. From Split there were reports between the 5th and 8th April of the arrival of three parties of Kossovars, totalling about 2,000 men and some of them under guard, who were said to have been mobilised in the Kosovo to clear the area of troublesome factions after trouble in the neighbourhood of Pristina.
10. In recent conversations with members of my staff, General Velebit has confirmed that conditions have been disturbed in the Kosovo and attributed this mainly to the dropping of parachutists by the Germans. These, he said, were mainly drawn from the Skanderbeg Division. He maintained, however, that the trouble is now largely over, due in the main to the co-operation in the suppression of the rising of troops of the Albanian National Liberation Army whose lack of racial differences from the rebels and obvious sympathy with partisan aims has made a deep impression. The presence of troops of the Albanian National Liberation Army in the area is confirmed by an American report of the 25th March to the effect that the 5th Division of the Albanian National Liberation Army was in the Kosovo with its headquarters at Kosovoska Mitrovica. General Velebit said that in the north-west corner of Macedonia there was a certain amount of brigandage, but this had been the case even before 1941. The Minister for Macedonia made much the same comment.
18. I am sending copies of this despatch to the Resident Minister, Central Mediterranean; His Majesty's Ambassador in Athens; Lieut.-Colonel Clarke, 37 Military Mission, in Bari; and to the British Delegation in Belgrade.


I have, &c.
RALPH SKRINE STEVENSON
[from: Bejtullah D. Destani (ed.), Albania & Kosovo: Political and Ethnic Boundaries, 1867-1946. Documents and Maps. Slough: Archive Editions, 1999, p. 939-944.]

1945
Brigadier Edward Hodgson:
Report on the Present Administration of Albania


Report on the Present Administration of Albania



May 29, 1945
7. The Albanian National Liberation Army

(a) A.N.L.A. strength is estimated at about 60,000 including all personnel under arms.
(e) The Albanian formations previously fighting in Yugoslavia have now been withdrawn to Albania or Kossovo.


[British Foreign Office document, preserved in the National Archives in London (FO 371/48091).]
 

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